Thread: 9200 Sq ft, 1914 built fixer, how much $$?

I'm looking for what you'd charge? I know there's a lot of regional stuff, etc, etc.... I'm just looking for your best guess since these don't come along every day.

Based on my normal price sheet.... this lands at about $800 which seems about right.

btw.... the listing mentions terms like 'potential' - translation: me in front of my computer for 9 hours

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9200' x .11 = $1012 plus $100 for crawl space. That would be an all day inspection plus late into the night doing the report for me.

Matt. put together 3 option. Bronze, Silver and Gold.

give them a standard price. inspection. then offer another service like photos. then anout line in red letter. and if you do IR.

this always helps me...

Best

Ron

For me it would be $1012. I charge .11 per foot on homes that size. I don't charge extra for the age, crawl, etc. Most likely a full day adventure including the report. It all depends on just how bad it is.

I would have told them:

I'll probably be there 2-3-4 days, and another day on the report, making the total time 3-4-5 days.

Taking the average, 4 days, at $150 per hour, 10 hour day, that would be $1,500 x 4 = $6,000 ... but it could take the additional day, so figure $7,500 for my normal inspection. I can do more, or less, if you prefer, which would result in either a savings if you want to cut corners, or more if you want to know as much as I can reasonably find without being restricted time-wise. Could be $10,000 if you want me there 5 days inspecting, 1-1/2 to 2 days on the report.

9200 Sq. ft.?

The poor things. Must be their first home.

I'd probably feel bad for them and just do it for free to try to help out them out.

I would do a drive by for $150, or 3 drive bys for $400

At that size, I'd bill by the hour and bump my hourly fee up slightly to take into account the amount of time I will spend on the report. But if I had to give a flat fee, I'd be around $1,000 as well.

Originally Posted by Tony Mount

I would do a drive by for $150, or 3 drive bys for $400

With the location being "Location: Oregon", I would hire you to do a drive by, because it would you a lot more than $150 just to "drive to" the "drive by".

Sorry, Tony, could not resist, not after your posts on that other thread, but ... I thought *all you did* were "drive by" inspections.

My fee: I would figure up the fee by how long I thought it would take, and how many houses I wouldn't be able to inspect during that time. There's no way I could do another job that day, and it would be a late night. I usually charge $50. extra for older homes, but would jack that up to at least $100. So basically, I would be at about the thousand dollar mark for the day's work.

1914 with a crawl. You can get lost in that crawl.

There has to be more to it as well. How about the 10 car garage, swimming pool, termite inspection.

Heck, 1914 with a crawl alone at that size along with a serious report. The reality is I would be around 1500 and that is being conservative. The crawl should be a night mare of jumbled re dues, old and new plumbing, seriously bad electric and duct work, lions and tigers and bears oh my. You will be in the crawl a long time and bring an extra battery or flashlight and expect to take a serious amount of picks.

!5 and I'd do it. Those houses take a serious amount of time deciphering all the did this and didn't do that and so on and so on. An 900 square foot crawl would take me 4 hours with the report and going over the findings with the client. A 9200 with a crawl is not going to take ten times longer but a serious amount longer. The inspection won't be the killer it will be the report that is going to get you and all the pictures. 9200 square feet at any home they are not paying peanuts for. Get you well earned money as well.

Before you scoff at the 1500 please think about it seriously. You have a lot of work ahead of you.

Remember, you are inspecting, minimum nearly 40,000 sq ft of area (presuming one story structure):

9,200 sq ft crawlspace
9,200 sq ft living space
9,200 sq ft attic space
9,200 sq ft of roof area
36,800 sq ft total inspection area

Plus, that may not include the garage, and who knows what else.

But, lets stay with 36,800 sq ft total.

Multiply that times your $0.11 sq ft and you get $4,048 for the inspection fee.

Think about what you are *REALLY* inspecting.

I'm picturing a 3 story home with a partial basement/ partial crawl. That is just typical for a large, old home in this area. I can't see this home being a single level with 9,000 feet of attic and crawl-- no way... (I think).

On something that large, I do request a RMLS listing with pictures, etc. prior to quoting the price. If it is a 9,000 feet crawl-- add a few hundred to mine too.

The last 7K square foot home I did was built in 1898. They were counting the basement as finished space, as well as part of the attic which had been converted.

Detached garages/ structures would be extra.

Have fun Matt..........

I would have to agree that about $1200-1500 seems to be realistic. I inspect homes of this age on a regular basis and they take considerably more time and effort. On something that big and old I would tell my clients that the report will be focusing main structural components and systems only. I would also let them know that some components such as original single pane windows will have a representative number inspected only. I would also let them know that you will not give exact locations of each problem but give an overview of there condition as a whole.

Originally Posted by Matt Fellman

I'm looking for what you'd charge? I know there's a lot of regional stuff, etc, etc.... I'm just looking for your best guess since these don't come along every day.

Based on my normal price sheet.... this lands at about $800 which seems about right.

btw.... the listing mentions terms like 'potential' - translation: me in front of my computer for 9 hours

Since you asked. I am asking back. How long did it take you for the inspection and report and how much did you wind up charging?

Depends on a crawl and I added for that It would go for $1245 down this way

Jerry,
Just to nit pik,
Since the house is probably multi level, there likely is not 9200 SF of attic and crawl, or roof.
JF

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Remember, you are inspecting, minimum nearly 40,000 sq ft of area (presuming one story structure):

9,200 sq ft crawlspace
9,200 sq ft living space
9,200 sq ft attic space
9,200 sq ft of roof area
36,800 sq ft total inspection area

Plus, that may not include the garage, and who knows what else.

But, lets stay with 36,800 sq ft total.

Multiply that times your $0.11 sq ft and you get $4,048 for the inspection fee.

Think about what you are *REALLY* inspecting.

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

Jerry,
Just to nit pik,
Since the house is probably multi level, there likely is not 9200 SF of attic and crawl, or roof.
JF

Jack,

Let us assume it is two story, then.

4,600 sq ft crawlspace
9,200 sq ft living space
4,600 sq ft attic space
4,600 sq ft of roof area
23,000 sq ft total inspection area

Plus, that may not include the garage, and who knows what else.

But, lets stay with 23,000 sq ft total.

Multiply that times your $0.11 sq ft and you get $2,530 for the inspection fee.

STILL a heck of a lot more than $1,000 to $1,500.

Would you want to inspect 23,000 sf for $1,000? Even $1,500?

FWIW: I never priced my inspections by the sq. ft., but rather TOT. In my opinion our product is our knowledge and experience. It is not a stretch to compare this to a doctor (house doctor) CPA, attorney, plumber, electrician, or any professional who works for an hourly rate. Also, the age of the building didn’t enter into my price estimates, but rather was the home occupied or vacant? We all know which takes longer to inspect, right?

If that home where in my area I would more than likely be asking something in the 1,500 to 2,000 range. Hey, that size building sounds to me like a full day’s inspection and if you don’t charge enough to make a decent living then you don’t have a job, you have a hobby.

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

FWIW: I never priced my inspections by the sq. ft., but rather TOT. In my opinion our product is our knowledge and experience. It is not a stretch to compare this to a doctor (house doctor) CPA, attorney, plumber, electrician, or any professional who works for an hourly rate. Also, the age of the building didn’t enter into my price estimates, but rather was the home occupied or vacant? We all know which takes longer to inspect, right?

Jerry--
I agree that pricing based on s.f is not the best way. I also fully agree that we need to get the client to understand that they are buying a professional service and they should not try to do so with a dollars/hr mentality.
But...while I wouldn't presume to tell anyone else how to price their services, I have to admit I don't understand the wisdom of NOT charging due to age. That's a significant factor in my book. I can't speak for anyone else, but I've done 70-100 year old 1000 s.f. homes that took far longer to inspect and write up than newer homes 2-3 times that size. Older homes than this take even longer. The time factor is multiplied when that older home includes such "amenities" as detached garages or other time-eaters such as tiny crawlspaces -- made even more difficult by added plumbing and ductwork. In simple terms. the whole process (inspection, walk-thru, report writing) for older homes usually takes longer -- especially with a buyer who doesn't fully understand what they are getting into.

To me, age is a far more important factor than occupied vs. vacant.

While not a big factor in my pricing, I will admit to a strong preference for vacant homes...

Originally Posted by Kevin Barre

I have to admit I don't understand the wisdom of NOT charging due to age. That's a significant factor in my book. I can't speak for anyone else, but I've done 70-100 year old 1000 s.f. homes that took far longer to inspect and write up than newer homes 2-3 times that size. Older homes than this take even longer. The time factor is multiplied when that older home includes such "amenities" as detached garages or other time-eaters such as tiny crawlspaces -- made even more difficult by added plumbing and ductwork. In simple terms. the whole process (inspection, walk-thru, report writing) for older homes usually takes longer -- especially with a buyer who doesn't fully understand what they are getting into.

I was trying to find a place to break the above up and respond to the most important point in it, but you kept using that point over and over, so I had to wait until you were through using it ...

" ... took far longer ... take even longer. The time factor ... other time-eaters ... takes longer ... "

Time.

Charge by the amount of "time" you are there.

Now, it does not matter how old, how big, how run down, etc., it is ... *time* ... is what you are using, *time* is what they are buying, and, in the end, you will have "time" to give your professional opinion regarding what you spent *time* inspecting.

The other Jerry.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

I was trying to find a place to break the above up and respond to the most important point in it, but you kept using that point over and over, so I had to wait until you were through using it ...

" ... took far longer ... take even longer. The time factor ... other time-eaters ... takes longer ... "

Time.

Charge by the amount of "time" you are there.

Now, it does not matter how old, how big, how run down, etc., it is ... *time* ... is what you are using, *time* is what they are buying, and, in the end, you will have "time" to give your professional opinion regarding what you spent *time* inspecting.

The other Jerry.

Generally, I agree. While I don't charge by the hour, per se, in the end that's what it effectively boils down to. However...
You say "Charge by the amount of "time" you are there." (Emphasis mine)
That implies that you aren't bound by an advance quote; you charge based on time spent on the job. Obviously, this can't be known until after it is complete. It would be great to be in a market with an established clientele where you don't need to quote a job. Congrats for being in that position. But realistically, I suspect that isn't the case with most of us, especially in smaller markets...and most especially in markets lacking a surplus of well-heeled clients. I suspect that most inspectors are like me...often they need to set a fee based on the time they EXPECT to be on the job.
I have some clients who call to book an inspection who never ask about a charge. Even in those cases, I do establish the fee up front so that there are no unpleasant surprises...for either party. If the parameters of the job are too wide to establish a set fee, I do it at an hourly rate.
Many calls are of the other sort -- where the prospective client calls and asks "how much do you charge?" In other words, they need a bottom-line, fixed price for the total job because they have a budget to work with. With those calls, I take into account all factors that affect the total time demands of the job. Age of the home absolutely influences the time (and cost) of the job.

Simply put, I agree that the time the total job takes is the determining factor that establishes cost. I just don't like the idea that the client is effectively buying labor at an hourly rate. As professional home inspectors, we need to make our clients cognizant of the fact that they are buying knowledge, not "just" time.

Jerry

"Now, it does not matter how old, how big, how run down, etc"

All of that has to do with time.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Jerry

"Now, it does not matter how old, how big, how run down, etc"

All of that has to do with time.

Ted,

Correct.

And it does not matter.

You charge "by the hour", for time at the inspection and time doing the report.

The more time it takes, the more you charge, thus, to you, (to you) "it does not matter how ... " it is.

I am driving down to Vero Beach tomorrow, a 2 hour drive there and a 2 hour drive back, I anticipate being on that inspection/consultation 8-10 hours, and I anticipate spending another 6-8 hours on the report the day after that. I will have a local inspector helping me tomorrow.

My proposal was for estimated $6,025.00 with a Total Not To Exceed of $7,250.00. I won't know until I am done.

The house and guest house are about 9,000 sf.

This is not a "home inspection" per se, it is a consultant's review of the previous inspection and 'adding on whatever else I see'. This is not questioning the original inspection, that was done by the seller's inspector, this is questioning whether any repairs were made.

As I relayed to my client through their attorney: Unless there is documentation for repair, the repair *was not done*. The Florida Building Code requires a permit for most every thing, with a few items being exempt, and those are exempt only with the approval of the building official. Thus, there will either be: 1) a permit; 2) a letter from the building official stating a permit was not required.

Those are the only two choices the seller and their contractors have, with the exception of a very limited number of things, such as "portable air conditioning units" and the like, which I'm not going to be looking at anyway - if it is "portable" it likely does not go with the house.

I cannot do a "re-inspection" as I have not done "the inspection", however, I can do a "peer review inspection" and an initial inspection of my own.

This review will not be as thorough as if I had done the original inspection as I would have been there 3-5 days on that, instead of 1 day on this. But it will be thorough enough to advise the buyer whether or not the seller 'is playing fair', so to speak.

I know who did the original inspection, and I trust him. In fact, when I moved from South Florida to up here, I had him inspect our house up here for me (knowing I would be walking around in my rose colored glasses).

The IRC is worded slightly differently than the Florida Building Code, Residential, but it's implication is similar.

From the 2006 IRC. (underlining is mine)

R105.2.2 Repairs.

Application or notice to the building
official is not required for ordinary repairs to structures,
replacement of lamps or the connection of approved portable
electrical equipment to approved permanently installed
receptacles. Such repairs shall not include the cutting away
of any wall, partition or portion thereof, the removal or cutting
of any structural beam or load-bearing support, or the
removal or change of any required means of egress, or rearrangement
of parts of a structure affecting the egress
requirements; nor shall ordinary repairs include addition to,
alteration of, replacement or relocation of any water supply,
sewer, drainage, drain leader, gas, soil, waste, vent or similar
piping, electric wiring or mechanical or other work

affecting public health or general safety.

Otherwise (other than the work underlined), it requires a permit.

That underlined part offers a VERY limited exemption from permit ... "replacement of lamps or the connection of approved portable

electrical equipment". Okay, you can change light bulbs and plug in a portable fan. BIG DEAL.

Speaking of time and age it seems my doctor spends more time checking me out then he used to?

EC Jerry is absolutely right not only about the element of time, but demonstrates what I've written about more than once in that those who are contemplating retiring from the trenches of real estate inspections should consider becoming construction consultants. It's a very rewarding job, its variances are stimulating, it keeps you on your toes and out of the house, and you often get to work with folks with "Esquire" after their names and the cost factor of every job is based entirely on “time.”

I might also add that very much like home inspectors there are many people who claim to be qualified professional construction consultants who aren’t.

Matt,

I've never done a house that big, but I would think it would be at least your day rate times two.

It just depends on how detailed they want to get.

On the big big homes out here, I hear that the guys will typically bring in one or more other HI's to get it done quick.

I hate inspecting the big old ones, I'll admit sometimes I get tired & start to lose focus.

It's like running a marathon.

Chris, Oregon