Thread: Jerry Peck's unethical Web Site

All inspectors need to know that Saint Jerry has set up a web site for home inspectors to steal information from there clients and post it on his site. Oklahoma law forbids a home inspector to release home inspection information to anyone without the clients permission. Maybe other states are different, but I would be careful posting on Jerry's web site for he may have you all in jail. Home Inspection Report Information Database

I / we (the person / persons Registering) attest that the information I / we will be entering in the EastWestData.com database will be correct to the best of my / our knowledge AND that this information WILL NOT be added for the purposes of harassment, stalking, or any other unlawful or unethical use or intent.

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Originally Posted by Tony Mount

Oklahoma law forbids a home inspector to release home inspection information to anyone without the clients permission.

Tony,

Ummmm ... I don't want information without the client's permission.

Again, apparently, you did not read far enough ... seems to be a trait of yours.

You posted this:

I / we (the person / persons Registering) attest that the information I / we will be entering in the EastWestData.com database will be correct to the best of my / our knowledge AND that this information WILL NOT be added for the purposes of harassment, stalking, or any other unlawful or unethical use or intent.

But not this: (Why?)

Notes:
(1) I / we (the person / persons adding the reports) attest that the information I / we are submitting into the EastWestData.com database is be correct to the best of my / our knowledge.
(2) AND that this information IS NOT being added for the purposes of harassment, stalking, or any other unlawful or unethical use or intent.
(3) AND I / we also state that we have permission to provide this information.

Can you READ (3)? If so, read it out loud to us all.

How many home inspectors get/have permission from their clients to talk to others (3rd parties) about their reports? I'd venture to say 95% of home inspector get/have that permission. I know that virtually ALL of my clients wanted me to talk to 3rd parties about their reports. I only had a few tell me they would not give me that permission.

Of course, though, when their agent called to ask a question ... I was not allowed to talk to them, other than to tell them that my client SPECIFICALLY told me they did not want to give me permission to talk to ANYONE about the report information.

I would guess that within a few hours, at most, those clients ALL called back and SPECIFICALLY gave me permission to talk to 3rd parties (I either did not talk to ANYONE, or, I had permission to talk to ANYONE), of course, I would have to advise them that I needed that permission in writing, being as they checked the box on the contract requesting that I *NOT* talk to anyone.

It did not take them long to figure out how to fax or e-mail me permission to talk to ANYONE.

If you do not get permission, I do not want the information, of course, though, then you will not be able to search for information either.

If you have permission and want to share it, username and password protected, with others, and to be able to search for information before going to an inspection, then that is available to you at EastWest Data .

Tony, questions for you:

- Do you 'talk to others' for your client WITH or WITHOUT their permission?

- Do you not help your clients out and 'not talk to anyone' about their report? In which case you would not need your client's permission.

Home Inspectors have choices, to help their clients or to not help their clients (by talking to others about the report). If the home inspector choses to help their client in that way, and the client gives permission for the home inspector to talk to others, there is nothing wrong with that.

In fact, you stated that you state KNOWS THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH TALKING TO OTHERS ABOUT THE REPORT ... if you have "the clients permission".

Tony, I am glad you brought this up, *ALL HOME INSPECTORS NEED TO KNOW* that they need their client's permission to talk to others about the report. I believe most, if not all, home inspectors get that permission, as a service to the client.

I'm glad to see that this has been settled.

If this is the beginning of something bigger between just two people please do it through PM or e-mail.

Originally Posted by Brian Hannigan

please do it through PM or e-mail.

Brian,

If it is okay with you ... I'd just as soon not even tie up your PM server space or my e-mail server space with it.

The title alone for this thread is priceless. Thanks for the laugh Tony.

Jerry I suggest that you go back and add # 3 to the other areas of your web site such as the place that I copied it from.

Tony,

I bet all this helped add some "hits" to Jerry's website and help boost his rating on the search engines.

rick

Originally Posted by Tony Mount

.
Oklahoma law forbids a home inspector to release home inspection information to anyone without the clients permission.

.
You should be more concerned with this.
.

Originally Posted by Tony Mount

Jerry I suggest that you go back and add # 3 to the other areas of your web site such as the place that I copied it from.

Tony,

Absolutely no need to.

You looked at the part where you register.

I copied the part from where you add a report.

Like always, you never read or go further than the tip of your nose. If you had, you would have seen the part I posted.

Like I said Jerry, Go back and ADD (it in) as in not there before.

Originally Posted by Tony Mount

Like I said Jerry, Go back and ADD (it in) as in not there before.

Like I said Tony, there is no need to add it in where you want it, anyone going through to ADD a record would read it, someone (like you) going through and NOT adding a record, not needed.

Originally Posted by Brian Hannigan

I'm glad to see that this has been settled.

If this is the beginning of something bigger between just two people please do it through PM or e-mail.

I think this was the best thing said so far on this thread.

Kevin,

I'm for Brian deleting them, otherwise I suspect these two threads will continue on their own for awhile.

Up to you guys and Brian.

what the heck is going on here lately?

Originally Posted by Brian Thomas

what the heck is going on here lately?

.....

Originally Posted by Brian Thomas

what the heck is going on here lately?

Brian,

To start with ... ... Tony just realized that I was retired and no longer a Home Inspector, and it's only been, what ... 2-1/2 years ...

And, because I am retired and no longer a Home Inspector, Tony thinks I've lost my marbles and am not able to follow this home inspector stuff.

Tony,

Just wanted to thank your for your advertising my web site, I've had several new users sign up.

This is what they say "I want to thank Tony for showing me your website".

I also want to thank you, Tony, for showing them my web site.

Here's to TONY!

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Tony,

Just wanted to thank your for your advertising my web site, I've had several new users sign up.

This is what they say "I want to thank Tony for showing me your website".

I also want to thank you, Tony, for showing them my web site.

Here's to TONY!

Ah, so the truth comes out. You and Tony plotted this all along. I thought it was bad enough that you were just a homeless guy that found a computer and a pile of books

My question is.

Tony, how much did you get paid for this. You and Jerry really did appear to have some serious differences. I new you could not be that out of touch with home inspection technicalities as you appeared to be!

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

... I suspect these two threads will continue on their own for awhile.

Sometimes the bigger man needs to be the first to stop. If he doesn't then the first part of your statement will be true.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Ah, so the truth comes out. You and Tony plotted this all along. I thought it was bad enough that you were just a homeless guy that found a computer and a pile of books

My question is.

Tony, how much did you get paid for this. You and Jerry really did appear to have some serious differences. I new you could not be that out of touch with home inspection technicalities as you appeared to be!

Ted,

Would you like to wager on that one?

rick

Other than reading Jerry's contributions, I really don't know the man.

Having said that, the last thing that I would ever suspect him of is being unethical.

You guys are priceless, definitely worth the price of admission!

I'm way late on this thread.
I've looked at Jerry's site and as I understand it have the following views that I am sure I will get hammered for.
I think Jerry has a good idea but it's not something I would sign on to. I think there are too many potential liabilities for homeowners and inspectors. The idea of having actual property addresses and reports scares the crap out of me.
What if muni inspectors, realtors, insurance agents, not quite so honest HI's gain access to get info for ulterior motives. I think there is only a small likelihood that a snooper would actually get info on a specific property anytime soon but if the database where to take off ...
I can't see asking any client for permission to post the report with address. The last stat I remember is that the national home buy/sell was 7 years and Chicago was 5 years. (I could be off, I remember that as the stat 2 years ago). If that is roughly the case, how relevant would 5 year old +/- info be for the next HI? Would we be assuming no rehab work would have been done in that time period. Wouldn't such info potentially prejudice the new inspection?
I think the database would be far more relevant and useful if it were geography based instead of house specific. I'll give a couple examples.
1) I'm a Chicago HI and decide to move to Arizona. I can inspect a house in my new turf but I don't know anything about the area conditions. Soils, flooding, etc.
2) I know the City and burbs fairly well. I know that some areas are prone to flooding, some aren't. What if I get a call to go to a burb I don't really know anything about?
In both cases, if an HI could type in a zip, county, neighborhood name and get info from other HI's that have uploaded data for that area, THAT would be really awesome.
Especially for guys who tend to inspect in newer development subdivisions, imagine if you could punch in the subdivision/development name and read what scummy developer things other HI's have found there.
Also, I think if the database were geography based along those lines it could have real commercial viability once it grows. I can see various companies being willing to pay for that type of info. Didn't Jerry say he had some sort of Winnebago to feed?
Not trying to start trouble Jerry, honestly, just wondering about the thing.
Markus

Marcus,

It is easy enough to make it geographical and not address specific, after all, the geographical stuff is already being asked for.

I could easily add a space for the ZIP code, and the address can easily be hidden, so it does not shown when adding or viewing a search, or show the address when adding the report, but not show the address when searching.

BUT ...

Would that help a specific home inspector out on a specific search?

The other information could be changed to reflect the geographic nature you are talking about, but why would a home inspector bother to upload that information, when there is no payback for them?

Suggestions are welcome.

If this does not get information added in, searching will never find any information.

If this is not wanted or needed, let me know. I figured it would be useful.

I tried this 10 years ago with termite inspections, I did not get any takers then, I thought maybe its time had now come - many inspectors have said so ... but few have added any data.

Waste of time or not? Let me know.

Jerry,
Getting people to realize that there is a payback for them may be difficult in the beginning. Maybe that's where having resource info on the site could be an incentive for HI's to visit and upload. If you can get them to visit for a reason then you increase the chance of them uploading.
A couple of other upload categories might be:
Green technology info - I think as time goes on HI's will encounter more Green installs. Having info from what others have seen may be helpful.
System/Installation categories - something like comments about what to look for when you encounter X system, common defects of a radon mit install, etc.
I wouldn't have an issue with uploading city, neighborhood or new development info. for others to reference.

Hi Jerry,

Do you have verbiage in your inspection contract to this effect? If so I would love to see an example so that I might include it into my contract and forever settle this matter. Also, I have thought about adding a phrase for including or using portions of the report, cleaned of any personal info, for marketing to.


Thanks
Richard

This is what I had in my contracts:

Check box and initial if desired: [ ] ___________ I, the CLIENT, authorize the COMPANY to discuss the contents of this report with other interested parties. (If the box is not checked, the CLIENT requests that the COMPANY does not release the information contained in this report to other interested parties.)

Just keep it short and simple.

You could easily set it up so the default was the opposite, such as this:

Check box and initial if desired: [ ] __________ I, the CLIENT, DO NOT authorize the COMPANY to discuss the contents of this report with other interested parties. (If the box is not checked, the CLIENT authorizes the COMPANY to discuss the contents of this report with other interested parties.)

I just always preferred the action of having them 'check the box and initial', that is a proactive move on their part to agree.

I used "interested parties", but that is no different than "third parties", either works the same.

Thanks Jerry,
I have learned so much from you and the others who post on this sight. I, for one, appreciate you! Thanks again.

Richard,

This is how you KISS (which is what I needed, and all HIs likely need after having been around a while): Either talk to *no one* or be allowed to talk to *anyone*.

When a client would say: "You can talk to my agent, but no one else.", you respond with "No, I either talk to anyone who calls, or no one. I cannot be expected to keep track of all my clients and who each one allows me to talk to. It is either *all* or *none*. And it is best for you is you allow me to talk to your agent, seller, contractor, etc., which means *all*."

By having 'all' of your clients allow you to talk to *anyone*, that KISS. Now whenever *anyone* calls asking about *any* report, you have permission to talk to them.

Otherwise, you would need to pull out a log book and look up your client, then look and see who you are allowed to talk to and who you are not allowed to talk to. You will readily see why that is impractical, if not impossible. Thus, it is *all or none*, and if all of you clients allow all, you do not have to remember anything other than the reports (which gets hard enough after you have done a few hundred reports, much less a few thousand reports).

Jerry Peck’s educational contribution(s) to the folks on this web-site is incomparable.
Its mind boggling that anyone could take Tony Mount seriously after he posted that piece of drivel regarding Jerry Peck.
I may also add that Jerry’s web site is also beneficial to the entire real estate inspection industry by providing vital information to the consumer public regarding what our industry is all about.
"late to the party"

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

...
Its mind boggling that anyone could take Tony Mount seriously after he posted that piece of drivel regarding Jerry Peck...

Someone takes TM seriously?

You know, though, this does bring up a question I wonder about from time to time.

I sometimes come into possession of my competitors inspection reports, typically because they been provided to my client or my client's real estate agent as part of the disclosure process

Sometimes, these are pretty risible, I've got one of these on my desk at the moment, a handwritten scrawl in which the inspector fails to notice that the rafter were bowed several inches, that the brick wall supporting an addition is literally collapsing and that a trimmer on one side of the basement stairs had been entirely cut through and the wall above the sagging. In addition some of the defect this inspector did catch are misreported.

And I find myself wondering: at this point what right of redistribution I have, if any, for such materials which come into my possession?

There's no copyright notice on the report, I did not sign a non-disclosure agreement with whoever provided the report, my client certainly not sign a NDA statement, I doubt his real estate agent signed an NDA, and I suspect the first link in the chain where anyone may have violated a confidentiality agreement was when the organization that holds the paper on this foreclosure supplied the report to the listing agent. And even then I'm not certain that they did so with any expectation of maintaining any control over its distribution. Also, I'm not sure the ancillary material supplied to me in the course of inspection is confidential in the same sense that my report is, and even if it was, presumably I could reproduce it with the client's agreement just as I could reproduce the report with permission of the client.

So I'm wondering: what really is my limitation on the use of non-copyrighted material provided to me pursuant to an inspection of residential property?

For example I'd love to disidentify the report, scan it section by section, reproduce it on my website alongside the matching section my own report, and then direct price shoppers there for a pretty vivid demonstration of the fact that all inspections, and all inspection reports, are not created equal.

That web site in question was an effort to help HIs help each other, all the HI would need was permission to discuss the report with others, which is given 99.94% of the time anyway ... either that of someone is talking to someone else about that inspection and they should not be.

But, alas, there was no participation (I think three people posted some information), and as it was up to all HIs to make it work for all HIs, it simply did not work out.

I am now using that server for my AskCodeMan web site.

It seemed that many wanted to SEE the others information, but few actually wanted to SHARE their information - and that is what it would have taken to make it work.

I want to thank Tony for driving people to my AskCodeMan web site as that is what he has done with his rant.

Thank Tony!

I have to respectfully disagree with "The Pontiff" regarding his position on advising his clients on disclosure. What right do you have to tell them you'lll speak to "everyone or no one"? Shouldn't you look at this issue from the point of view of the true professional with the legal responsibility of protecting the home buyer, i.e. their attorney? How do you think a good closing attorney would advise a home buyer regarding disclosure? Do you think the buyer's attorney wants you posting your report to a public website? Do you think the buyer's attorney wants you to speak directly to the seller's attorney? Anyone in this business knows the answers. The report is confidential and we disclose our findings only at the direction of our client. KISS indeed JP.

Fellas,

There is a ton of good information provided by many of you, but there is also way too much ego and bickering amongst you as well. Who is right and who is wrong seems to be most of the content in some of these posts. As for posting incidents, findings, or situations from past inspections on Jerry's website, as long as client's name and property address is not posted - who cares? Get over yourselves, take a pill to reduce the swelling of some of your big heads and relax. Quit bickering and just keep doing a good job posting industry related issues !!! If you want something worth complaining about - get married !!!

LMAO!!!!!

Originally Posted by Jim Hintz

. Quit bickering and just keep doing a good job posting industry related issues !!! If you want something worth complaining about - get married !!!

.
Like Your Total of 2 Posts.
*this is umber 2 isn't it ?
.

Originally Posted by Dan Cullen

The report is confidential and we disclose our findings only at the direction of our client. KISS indeed JP.

Dan,

Do you really have that hard a time understanding things, even when YOU write the same thing?

My gosh, no wonder I did not miss you, I must have just been relieved that your peckiness was no longer present.

Read what you just wrote above, here, *I* will repeat it for you:
- Dan wrote: The report is confidential
- - Dan, that means the report is ... well ... confidential

- Dan continued: and we disclose our findings only at the direction of our client.
- - Dan, that means when, has I have repeated time and time again, that when ... "our client" ... gives us permission ... (Dan, that means our client has directed us/is allowing us to talk to others) ... to talk to others ... (Dan, there it is again "to talk to others") ... than we have that permission.

KISS = Keep It Simple STUPID ... how much plainer does it need to get before you can understand the STUPID simplicity of it?

Originally Posted by Jim Hintz

Quit bickering and just keep doing a good job posting industry related issues !!! If you want something worth complaining about - get married !!!

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

.
Like Your Total of 2 Posts.
*this is umber 2 isn't it ?
.

Billy,

Some people do that in their one and only post.

Interesting how they want OTHERS to post good things and not argue about anything THEY don't want to hear, yet THEY don't bother posting anything of value.

Sheesh!

What a bunch of whining stone throwers. JP had an idea. Granted IMHO not a very good one but he tried. I posted to him when the site first started that I didn't think it was a good idea and wouldn't participate. We don't all hit home runs every time.
Of course as Wise men do (can you hear the suckling sound) they alter course when an original idea doesn't quite work. JP has done so. I think the askcodeman site is a damn good addition to www.
For those of you slamming the crap out of JP for this, grow up already. Where's your positive contribution? Are you still pissed about the last time he kicked your a__ during an HI / Code question?
On a sort of local note, I can easily see Dan and JP not getting along. Ross what's your schedule tomorrow, lunch?

Jerry I am going to Tweet your web site "ask the Code man" Let me know if you get any hits.

Mike,

I don't track how many times my web site get hit, I'm not into that stuff. People are slowly finding it, so that's okay.

Not sure I could handle a lot of hits and questions per day anyway, at least not right now, too much going on.