One of the sure-fire ways to get 33 people killed on a college campus is to force all the law abiding citizens to give up any means of self defense, could there be anything more stupid? Guess who was the only person on campus with a gun, you got it a whacked foreigner with no respect for our people or our laws, go figure.

Gun laws guarantee that law abiding citizens will stand defenseless while criminals are well armed at the very worse time, I would rather be judged by twelve then carried by six.



Virginia quashed bill allowing handguns on campuses
Tech spokesman celebrated 2006 defeat because it would help make campus safe
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Posted: April 16, 2007
3:15 p.m. Eastern

By Art Moore
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com
Virginia state capitol

More than one year before today's unprecedented shooting rampage at Virginia Tech, the state's General Assembly quashed a bill that would have given qualified college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus.

At the time, Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker said he was happy to hear of the bill's defeat, according to the Roanoke Times.

"I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus," the Virginia Tech spokesman said.

At least 32 people were killed today at Virginia Tech in the worst campus shooting in U.S. history.

The proposal, House Bill 1572, was initiated by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League.

But the bill didn't pass its first stage, the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety.


Todd Gilbert

Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus.

Backers of the bill wanted to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."

The bill's sponsor, Gilbert, told WND that with today's tragedy still unfolding, he is uncomfortable commenting and cannot assert the university's policy in any way contributed to the shooting. But he said, nevertheless, it's clear it couldn't have stopped the attack.

"The one thing that this tragic event does illustrate is that there is not a single gun law, rule or regulation that will stop someone with this kind of evil intent from going about their business and taking life at will, if they are committed to doing that," Gilbert said.

While advocates of gun control often believe they are improving safety, they are depriving law-abiding citizens from defending themselves in dangerous situations, he contended.

"Had I been on campus today, and otherwise been entitled to carry firearms for protection and been deprived of that, I don't think words can describe how I would have felt, knowing I could have stopped something like this," Gilbert said.

People who are willing to jump through all the legal hoops necessary to get a weapons permit usually are not people society needs to worry about, he argued.

The suspect in today's shootings might have been a legal weapons holder, Gilbert said, but the law didn't prevent him from doing what he did.

In the spring of 2005, a Virginia Tech student who had a concealed handgun permit was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, the Roanoke paper reported.

Second Amendment groups questioned the university's authority, but the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police argued against guns on campus.

In June 2006, Virginia Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy that reaffirmed the school's ban.

Joe,

Are you trying to say that this *WOULD NOT* have happened if everyone was allowed to walk around carrying a gun?

Your logic is flawed, my friend.

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

No one knows for sure how things would have unfolded if law abiding citizens weren't disarmed on college campuses, someone might have been able to stop this SOB, but since our killer was the only one armed we will never know.

That is the exact reason why screw ups like this don't pull this kind of crap in any WalMart in Florida 1/2 the customers at any one time are packing enough heat to take out a small division let alone one a-hole with a gun.

Guns should be outlawed on every school campus, the only folks that should be able to have them legally on a school campus should be the campus police.

__________________
Scott Patterson
Spring Hill, TN
http://www.traceinspections.com

That kind of thinking gets you 33 students killed, atta boy. When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.

Oh, I believe in the right to bear arms. Just not at any College, University, High School, etc.

I even have an NRA card signed by Charleston Heston!

__________________
Scott Patterson
Spring Hill, TN
http://www.traceinspections.com

Here you go Scott, someone you might resonate well with, hopefully you won't need her help in a firefight.

Too bad for Feinstein the 33 weren't killed with an assault weapon, just a couple of run-of-the-mill handguns.

Criminals will always have weapons.

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Scott Patterson
Spring Hill, TN
http://www.traceinspections.com

The only thing that matters right now is that 33 kids are dead and 33 families will never be the same again. There is no guarantee that an allowed handgun law for students on campus would have prevented this.

While a permit to carry is obviously better than no permit in tragic circumstances like this, that permit does not include extensive training on how to deal with deranged individuals loaded up with a cache of weapons and no fear of death.

Bills like the one referenced are quashed for the common good. Meaning, college students do not need guns on campus. There is enough alcohol and testosterone flying around college campuses as it is. Guns and bullets do not mix well those ingredients. It is unreasonable to assert that the state of Virginia should have had the foresight to see that such a broad swath of violence would occur and that allowing students to arm themselves would be the solution.

It is easy to second guess. The real task is figuring out how to prevent things like this from ever happening in the first place. Gun control is not the answer as it only affects law-abiding citizens who are responsible gun owners. Like Scott said, the criminals will always have weapons. Even if legislation were passed, it wouldn't make the guns that are out there disappear and the criminals most certainly are not going to turn their guns in.

Nick,

You can't have it both ways, either the school guarantees the safety of their students or the school allows the students to defend themselves there is no third choice.

Do you think this won't happen again, everyone knows that they can be a big man on campus when they are the only one armed and dangerous.

The killer here was a foreign student and had no business owning a gun in the united states you can't believe you can stop this can you?

People need to be allowed to protect themselves from crap life daily dishes out, take off your rose colored glasses and smell the coffee.

So you are assuming you will die after being judged by the twelve? (First be judged. THEN be carried.)

Perhaps you meant to say, ". . . I would rather be judged by twelve THAN carried by six."

then - next in order of time

than - in comparison with

Amazing how one little letter completely changes the meaning of a word and a sentence.

__________________
"Baseball is like church. Many attend but few understand." Leo Durocher
Bruce Breedlove
www.avaloninspection.com

Joe, I never said this could be stopped.

If you think you need to carry a gun to feel safe, then you are either paranoid or living in and frequenting the wrong areas. I hunt and am pro-gun but the last thing I want to do is carry a gun with me every day. When I feel I need to carry a gun to feel safe is when I need to make some changes in my life.

You may be fine with living amongst other gun carrying civilians who most likely lack the proper training for safe handling and use of guns. But most people are not. Would allowing guns on campus have prevented this? Most likely no. And that is because they are college students who are not on a 24/7 lookout for armed gunmen. When bullets flew during the first attack, I'm sure the last thing on any of those kids' minds was how they could take out the gunman.

I do agree with Joe on this one.

I am very pro gun/carry. I do believe that a person should have the right to protect themselves wherever they are.

With that being said"

In my opinion, I don't think anyone is looking to be the next Rambo when the shooting starts. I think it is more of a question of the shooting starts, everyone craps their pants and and after diving for cover and cowering down under a desk or whatever, the person now has the ability to retrieve his/her weapon and at least be able to defend themselves from the assailant and not let the SOB just calmly walk up to them and execute them without any chance of survival.

That's my point of view.

I know it is not shared with a lot of others, being a victim of a violent crime is a terrible tragedy. Being totally helpless and at the complete and total mercy of a madman killing innocent people is a bigger tragedy.

Florida has some of the best gun laws on the books for it's citizens, but it too does not allow caring of weapons/guns into colleges/universities.

I think that the aftermath of this tragedy will force a lot of states to rethink their position on this.

OK, I'm done for now. You all can beat me up, I'm unarmed

IMHO

__________________
Tim Moreira
Suncoast Home Inspections
Suncoasthomeinspections@yahoo.com

The gun carry issue reminds me of a field trip I went on with my daughter.

We went to a government facility where all of the vehicles had to be searched. While we were standing in line to get I.D. badges an officer came in carefully holding a yellowish green fluorescent transparent orange tipped cap gun. He was holding by the handle like it was a nickle plated snub nose 38.
The owner of the $1.97 cap gun asked him to just dispose of it.

When I got back into my truck I thought of all the weapons I had that would be far worse; a tire iron, a 4d cell mag lite, a box cutter etc........

The point is, we seem to go nuts over anything that even looks like a gun.
I suppose we could make some sort of holster for a tire iron, but it would make more since to carry a concealed hand gun(not in a heavily guarded gov. facility) that no one knows that you have.

From what I understand, in our state you can take a course to become certified to carry a concealed weapon. The law is very strict, it must be concealed at all times. If you draw your weapon it had darn sure be with good reason or you'll not likely own a gun ever again. This is definitely for law abiding citizens. Criminals are going to carry without such certification and strict guidelines.

If I'm sitting beside a law abiding citizen that may or may not have a concealed gun, who really cares, I'm not thinking about that. But if some nut locks us all in a room and starts to shoot I hope to God that some law abiding citizen whips out a gun and takes him down.
As disturbing as it may be to some, this is the only logical way to save lives in this situation. In our day to day lives the last thing you would expect is for some nut to open fire. Without any fore warning there is no possible way for law enforcement to respond in time.

__________________
Consistency is a direct path to perfection.

Sorry to say but if I have to carry a gun to feel safe, I would be looking for another area to live and work in.

__________________
Scott Patterson
Spring Hill, TN
http://www.traceinspections.com

The pretend gun can be used to fool people into thinking it was a real gun, possibly even giving up their real gun in a hostage situation. That's the difference between a toy gun and a tire iron, box cutter, pool stick, etc.

Second Ammendment: A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

It refers to an oranized militia at the state level. I think it has been twisted by the gun manufacturer lobbyists and the NRA. That's my opinion. The countries with stronger gun control laws and less guns have much lower murder and violent crime rates. It's tragic that it takes a bunch of dead white college kids for anyone to talk about it, but their deaths won't make a dent in the national statistics at the end of the year. It's become an accepted part of our culture that something like this will happen once a year. Makes for riveting news for an evening or two, and then on to the next big thing.

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Jim Robinson
New Mexico, USA

Safety is an illusion, just because a place looks safe like a college campus for instance has no bearing on reality. The simple fact is the safer you feel the more venerable you are. I take an active role in my protection and pack everyday and everywhere it is legal and will continue to do so for the rest of my life. I would suggest that each and everyone follow my example and take responsibility for your own safety so that others do not have to risk their lives to protect and defend you or your family in a time of grave crisis from some armed wing-nut.

I would like to see each & every teacher in America being armed & trained in light weapon tactical protection, had that been the case I am sure there would not have been 33 dead at VT.

No doubt the students & faculty of VT felt very safe seconds prior to the first shot, then feeling save was replaced by fear & dread knowing you were unarmed and unable to protect yourself. Is there really any good reason to allow our children and teachers to be sitting ducks? Does anyone really believe it is possible to keep firearms out of the hands of the insane?