Consumers Guide To Thermal Imaging - InspectionNews

John McKenna · #1 (**permalink**) 05-01-2008, 11:35 PM

Consumers Guide To Thermal Imaging on NACHI.TV

Consumer's Guide to Infrared Thermography - NACHI.TV Episode 33

Scott Patterson · #2 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 06:45 AM

Oh great! More meaningless certification fodder brought to you by the certification king!

Curious John, just how long have you been doing IR surveys and what training do you need to have to open a school and certify folks like you are doing?

From what I have read it looks like you should have a Level III Certification before you start training or supervising others in IR surveys.

Quote:

Level lll Infrared Thermography Certification

This is the most advanced infrared training level available. A Level III thermographer is primarily a thermography program manager who writes the company's written predictive maintenance/inspection practices, develops the test procedures and severity criteria, determines how often equipment should be inspected, and calculates the return on investment the thermography program is providing.
By completing this advanced infrared training, a Level III thermographer will supervise Level I and Level II infrared thermographers, as well as provide infrared thermography training. The Level III thermographer is a resource to be consulted with, when repeat problems on equipment necessitates a review of operating and maintenance procedures, or involves a redesign of equipment. Infrared Thermography Certification Levels

I don't see this in your credentials...

John McKenna · #3 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Oh great! More meaningless certification fodder brought to you by the certification king!

Curious John, just how long have you been doing IR surveys and what training do you need to have to open a school and certify folks like you are doing?

From what I have read it looks like you should have a Level III Certification before you start training or supervising others in IR surveys.

I don't see this in your credentials...

Scott,

FLIR-ITC (considered one of the finest providers of thermography training in the
world) have teachers that are not Level III.... and FLIR-ITC is where I was trained.

Here is a partial list to help you get started...
FLIR Infrared Training Center - ITC - CVS ITC - Instructor Bios

The vast majority of Level III and Level II and Level I themographers in the
U.S. cannot do a infrared home inspection, because they have no background in
that industry. Just throwing out those titles does not make one qualified to
teach home inspectors.

You have no training in infrared technology, and therefore I understand your
views and misconceptions. You have never taken our courses and test.
You do not know the content of what you attack.

I can point you to another thermal imaging school that is very well known
and respected in the industry, that is now offering the same type and length
of class, for the same "Infrared Certified" designation. They started their
classes after they saw what we were doing. If you attack them, you would
be attacking an 25 year old thermography institution.

Based on the content of the video, did you find any errors in the content itself.?

I suggest you point to specific content errors and tell us the source of your
opinions. Anyone can blow smoke.

I was building houses for many years before you even knew what a home
inspector was. I did not just read a book and take a test. Please do not
lecture me on experience.

If you find any errors, I am open to correction. If you want to make broad
based and mocking comments based on an insecurity, try to relax. The
video has very valuable information for the consumer that can help a lot
of people.

I have had several students who have taken courses at FLIR-ITC and
then took our IR class. They stated that our class was one of the finest
and most intense course they have ever seen.

BTW... ASHI has started calling their members "certified" so don't become
the kettle calling the pot black... when your own association is using that same
term. Relax.

Have a nice day.

mathew stouffer · #4 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 10:20 AM

I would have to say if the person is ITC trained and has spent the time and money on a camera, their marketing should explain to the consumer what IR offers. Just a thought.

Cary Seidner · #5 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 01:52 PM

So John, what are you a Level I, II or III Thermographer?

Scott Patterson · #6 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 03:09 PM

John, you and I have always disagreed on most topics.

As for ASHI and their membership classification of Certified ASHI Inspector, it is a membership classification. It is not a true certification.

In the home inspector profession we have not real honest to goodness "True" third party certifications. They are all self serving certifications of the various membership organizations.

Now if we had a certification that could meet NOCCA standards, then we would have a true home inspector certification. The problem with this is that few would want to attain it due to the requirements and the additional cost associated with a higher level third party certification.

The word Certification has been so watered down that its meaning has been lost in our profession.

John McKenna · #7 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 06:02 PM

Scott,

Thank you for your honest answer about your feelings.

Cary,

I sat next to some Level III thermographers when I attended FLIR-ITC
and they needed my help during the class that dealt with doing an infrared
scan of a building. This may be outside the box of what you understand,
but none of those titles mean anything if you still don't know what your
doing. When you can explain that to me, then I will know your getting
close. Those certifications were created over 10 years ago and were
not for home inspectors. Think about it.

That does mean that particular Level III guy next to me did not know how to
use the IR camera, he just could not use it in the HI field of use.

Did anyone find a point in the video that was incorrect.? Can anyone
agree it was good information. Relax.

Ron Bibler · #8 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 06:40 PM

Hi john i did injoy the video. you and Nick are doing some good work
on inter/NACHI. I get alot form that web site.

Thank you and keep up the good work.

But one point i may make that if we are as H.I Going to take photos of toilet can we put the lid down!!! unless there is a crack in the thing.

Just one of my pet peeves. No photos of open Toilets please.

Best

Ron

Cary Seidner · #9 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 06:58 PM

John,

It's not outside of my box of understanding. It totally makes sense that the Level III guys would be asking construction/building questions to a home inspector or builder. I used to be a builder as well. Now I am a home inspector who recently purchased a thermal imaging camera. As I need more help learning about IR fundamentals than I do about building or construction techniques, I am looking to learn from people that have that type of training and thus would be able to better educate me on IR.

So just to clarify, you are not a Level I Thermographer...Right? Just a yes or no will do.

Matt Fellman · #10 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

The word Certification has been so watered down that its meaning has been lost in our profession.

This is so true.... I don't really follow all the association bashing and really have no idea or care who's on what side of what fight. But, something I can vouch for is the lack of care or concern on the part of the consumer as to a few letters behind a guy's name.

In 8+ years of performing home inspections and running a mid/large company I've never been asked one time about any certification.

If people bought a HI every week they'd learn to care. For the once every 5 years that most consumers use our services it's meaningless.

As mentioned by Scott, the fighting amongst us has ruined any possibility of a benefit any designation may have provided.

In the end I'm not saying the certifications are useless since there's often some good education that goes along with them (or should be anyway). I just don't think it will make your phone ring or keep you from getting sued.

Dan Harris · #11 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 07:47 PM

This topic looks like another attempt by another vender to get all the free advertizing he can from Brian and another free plug for the owner
his org that will certifiy anybody for $s