I did an inspection a few weeks ago on a home built in early 70's. One of the area's I noted was Aluminum wiring. I found out later that the client had specifically told her RE Agent that she did not want aluminum wiring. The disclosure had it listed as Copper. Well, she optioned out on the house and requested a refund on ernest money due to failing to disclose aluminum wiring. Her agent, who we also found out represented the seller, replied with this...

"...actually the house is copper wired. It is not aluminum wired. Your inspector was wrong. We have the inspection from when they purchased the home in January of 2005 and it does state that it was copper wiring in the home and their sellers disclosure reflects the same thing from when they bought it from the owner."

and refused to refund the ernest money. After I checked the disclosure, I noticed that under "Has seller ever obtained a written report about the condition of the foundation from any engineer, contractor, inspector, or expert?" it was marked "NO". AND under the disclosure it asks how long the seller has owned the property. It said 1 year. (January 2005 - April 2007, hmmm I count 2+).

My client asked me if I had proof that it was aluminum, and I advised that the pictures are in the report (another client who doesn't read the reports I guess). Then she asked what actions she should take to get her money back. I pointed out the fact that the disclosure states no inspectino report, they have one, copper wiring, it's aluminum, and length of residency is inaccurate and... "I am by no means an attorney, but the little I know about contracts and real estate, I would guess an attorney would agree you are due 100% of option and earnest money back based solely on the disclosure and the below response. If the seller does not give the refund, you may want to consider contacting legal council on the matter."

I guess she forwarded that to the agent and the agent replied back with "My broker has this file and he read the email that your inspector sent. He agrees with me - that your inspector crossed the line. We are now researching to see if he has a degree in real estate law, since he gave you legal advice."

I know, I'm a deal killer, shame on me.

What would you do now? No, not asking for legal advise, just your own personal opinion.

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I'd rather be catching a big ole Redfish!

I wouldn't do anything. I don't think what you did would be considered giving legal advice, or anyone who suggests that someone contact a real estate attorney would be guilty of that. That would include almost every realtor in the US. The seller didn't disclose properly, and the last inspector (if there was one) was incorrect. I wouldn't do a thing except prepare some documentation for a report to the state realtor board if they keep pressing.

Hey, that's funny. Whenever I type realtor it comes up as a spell check error.

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Jim Robinson
New Mexico, USA

I would have recommended they call an attorney.

I would NOT have suggested that they are entitled to their deposit back, since I have no idea what conditions or contingencies are in their contract.

I wouldn't worry too much about the broker's comment, though. It's just scare tactics to intimidate you.

Dom.

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Jerry McCarthy
Construction Consultant
www.expertbuildingconsultants.com

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Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services - www.rainspect.com
Seattle, Washington

Korey... question for you. Are you sure it wasn't copper that was tin plated?

RR

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"If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?"
Richard Rushing, HCRI
Duncanville, Tx.

The service panel (which was only a main cut off) was copper, then there was a junction panel just above it. Inside the junction was copalum connectors connecting the copper service lines with the aluminum. Never seen tin plated copper (or heard of it for that matter) but pretty sure they wouldn't use copalum connectors. The Aluminum wiring was old enough to still have the, not sure what it's called, but "cloth" for lack of correct term covering on it. That went to the sub. I'm 101% sure it was aluminum.

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I'd rather be catching a big ole Redfish!

Was the insulation of the rubber type??

1970's right...

Not doubting you for a second, just fishing for more information.

Back in the day (when tin plated copper was used) the copper had a chemical reaction to the rubber. They found that the tin plating negated the adverse reaction.

More question(s)-- was the finish dull or shinny??

Richard

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"If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?"
Richard Rushing, HCRI
Duncanville, Tx.

Don't believe tin plated copper was available in the 70's, it pre-dates that time period. Early 70's should sound an alarm to every home inspector in regards to solid-aluminum branch circuit wiring, good thing you caught it.

I have yet to meet a Realtor or seller who doesn't attempt to play down this potentially dangerous issue.

Here ya go Richard, probably should have posted this in the original.

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I'd rather be catching a big ole Redfish!

Errrrrr... that's the SEC-- not the branch circuitry wiring. Big difference.

The aluminum wiring from the service is not an issue (generally). It's the branch circuitry that is of major concern.

Do you have a picture?

RR

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"If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?"
Richard Rushing, HCRI
Duncanville, Tx.

Actually, that's the the sub panel you are looking at. I should have taken more pictures, but did not realize this whole thing would come out and bite me just because I said it has aluminum wiring under "Type of Wiring". I just took this one to remind me to note the gell coat needed.

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I'd rather be catching a big ole Redfish!

KR, we are talking about solid conductor aluminum branch circuit wiring here, aren't we?

http://www.inspect-ny.com/aluminum/ALid16.jpg

Stranded aluminum is common for feeders and larger amperage circuits. It may still have some issues, but doesn't have the same problems (or stigma) of solid strand Al.

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Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services - www.rainspect.com
Seattle, Washington

K,
Unless I'm misreading the post, you may want to revisit what you said. What is missing in your post is what you saw at the sample receptacles and switches. If an electrician went to the trouble and the owner went to the expense to do what you descibed, it is probable that he also made Copalum connections at the receptacles and switches. Did you look? Did you report?

The concern from me is not what the realtor threatens. Is or is not Al can be answered by a third party electrician. In ANY EVENT, the seller and the realtor didn't disclose. You are in Texas and my concern for you becomes did you follow the directives of the applicable section of the SOP?

: Texas Administrative Code

When encountering aluminum wiring, the reporting standards are more stringent than they are for copper. And it will benefit you and your Client to be very specific about the conditions you find regarding what has or has not been upgraded/modified and how it has been modified.

If, for example, you inspected a random sample of cover plates and saw aluminum wire at the connecting points, then the system still had aluminum conductors. You would report that. As well you would report whether or not the receptacles were CO/ALR.

If you saw pigtails, you would report that, as well as the means used for pigtailing.

If you saw Alumiconn connectors, you would report that.

And if you saw Copalum crimps at the receptacles, you would report that.
The house still has Aluminum wiring, no matter what modifications have been made. There is a difference between copper and being considered equal to copper for the purpose of preventing arcs. However, there is also a real difference in what having Aluminum wiring means, depending upon what you observe and how you report.

In this specific incident, it sounds as though the prior Inspectors were incorrect to report that the house has Copper wire and that you may have been remiss in reporting that Aluminum wiring was present without addressing the completeness or incompleteness of the Copalum crimps at your radom samplings of the switches and receptacles. If those randomly sampled sites were properly Copalum crimped, you would report so along with the explanation of why that is the acceptable means of upgrading the safety of the Aluminum wiring. You would disavow any knowledge of the remaining circuits and fixtures, because they were not sampled.

You didn't mention any other reasons for your Client terminating the contract. I hope there were other issues, because it will make your defense and offense easier. And, as you know, many contracts have a clause where buyers may terminate for any or NO reason within the option period. That's why the Client purchases the option. The broker knows he has no legs to stand on regarding the option money.

When a Client asks you questions regarding stuff outside the realm of inspections, it would be perfectly acceptible to give the contact means for filing a complaint with TREC. BTW, (from another thread) TAR plays the pseudo law game of requiring all past inspections, up to four years old, to be attached to the seller's disclosure. Since you know from the realtor that they have them, had they disclosed to your Client and given her copies?

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The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
- Paul Fix

Korey, in the electrical section of my report, I have different service panel wiring options to check: copper, stranded aluminum, or solid core aluminum. If your report does not differentiate between solid core and stranded aluminum, I can see where there may be room for confusion. Did you actually see solid core single strand aluminum or was it all the stranded variety as appears in your pic?

K,
Trust me, I'm no expert. I've proven it many times. You have yourself in a situation here with your Client and the seller, but you'll work through it as long as you deal with the issue and don't try to BS your way out.

Even though I try really hard and do believe that I provide valid and valuable reports, I am keenly aware that I encounter situations that I am not capable of accurately evaluating. When that happens I do one of two things. If it's something I should know, but don't, I delay giving the report until I have a chance to answer my own questions. NO ONE forces me to give a report before it's ready. When it is something that is beyond the scope of my knowledge and where providing accurate information without having more formal education would be impossible, I refer it out or subcontract a specialist on my dime to perform that part of the inspection and to educate me on site as to that particular situation.

The hardest hits to my ego come when I look back at earlier reports and realize that sometimes I didn't know enough to know I didn't know. Notice that the last sentence wasn't in the past tense.

Good luck on this.

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The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
- Paul Fix

I think rubber insulation went out in the 1940s with the development of thermoplastics.

When rubber insulation went out, so did tinned copper - no need to tin the copper with thermoplastic insulation.

A 1970s house would either be:

a) copper
b) aluminum
c) copper clad aluminum (which looks like copper - so I know you did not have that)

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Your thoughts on this "apparent" aluminum wiring?

It comes out of the flexible conduit at top right of second pic.

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Erby Crofutt, Georgetown, KY
B4U Close Home Inspections & Radon Testing
www.b4uclose.com www.kentuckyradon.com