Basement Egress window

Brian Sampsel · 06-01-2010, 07:57 PM

I was looking to define Normal operation of a Basement egress window per manufacture of the window. I have emailed window manufactures and haven't heard back from them. I know that the occupants can not use keys, tools or special knowledge to exit the window.
Would removing the window sash(s) be considered normal operation per manufacture, provided no keys, tools or special knowledge would be applied.
maybe a website to check out or phone number to call.???
Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Brian.

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**Jerry Peck** · 06-01-2010, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Brian Sampsel

Would removing the window sash(s) be considered normal operation per manufacture, provided no keys, tools or special knowledge would be applied.

Brian,

That would require "special knowledge" to know that the sash had to be REMOVED rather than OPENED for emergency egress, that is in addition to the requirement that the window be opened (versus removed) for emergency egress.

That would not be allowed.

**Rick Cantrell** · 06-02-2010, 04:24 AM

I cannot remember a homeowner that knew how to remove the sash from a tip-out window.
Even though it's not difficult, it does take special knowledge of how it works.

Brian Sampsel · 06-02-2010, 01:17 PM

Thank you for info.

**Corn Walker** · 06-02-2010, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

That would require "special knowledge" to know that the sash had to be REMOVED rather than OPENED for emergency egress, that is in addition to the requirement that the window be opened (versus removed) for emergency egress.

That would not be allowed.

I've found that different AHJ apply different criteria to the "special knowledge" issue around windows. For example, the Andersen 400 series Tilt Wash windows are readily removed from their jambs simply by pushing or pulling on it. One AHJ I spoke with would allow this window (provided the interior jamb measurement was acceptable) and one wouldn't.

Your best bet is to size the window appropriately. The next best bet is to plead your case with your local AHJ who ultimately makes the call as to what is "special knowledge" and what isn't. You can thank the code authors for making the language sufficiently vague enough that the AHJ can "interpret" it.

**Jerry Peck** · 06-02-2010, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Corn Walker

Your best bet is to size the window appropriately.

That is indeed not only the best bet, but the only bet to make.

This ...

The next best bet is to plead your case with your local AHJ who ultimately makes the call as to what is "special knowledge" and what isn't. You can thank the code authors for making the language sufficiently vague enough that the AHJ can "interpret" it.

... will only get you in trouble when trouble happens, i.e., the judge and attorneys will most likely disagree with the AHJ and read the code as it is written, and having to remove a window is not "normal" by any stretch of the imagination.

Brian Sampsel · 06-02-2010, 07:55 PM

Very interesting subject. Thank you again for the info.

**John Kogel** · 06-03-2010, 08:35 PM

I saw windows recently, not in an inspection or I'd have pics. They were conventional vinyl sliders, too small for egress, but had latches on the frame similar to this pic. The whole frame pops out, creating a large enough gap.

**Vern Heiler** · 06-04-2010, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

That is indeed not only the best bet, but the only bet to make.

This ...

... will only get you in trouble when trouble happens, i.e., the judge and attorneys will most likely disagree with the AHJ and read the code as it is written, and having to remove a window is not "normal" by any stretch of the imagination.

When does the HI stop being the primary target? Does it take a hand written note from God? Not having been involved in law suits, this is a serious question!

**Rick Cantrell** · 06-04-2010, 06:43 AM

"When does the HI stop being the primary target? Does it take a hand written note from God? Not having been involved in law suits, this is a serious question!"

I don't think a note from God will help at all, some people don't believe in God, and even those that do may not believe that God did in fact write the note.

A note in the report is the best way to inform someone a condition exist that has the potential to jeopardize their safety.

My opinion is:
It's not about lawsuits or disclaimers. It's about documenting a condition, and educating people about that condition.
Documention and education is the best way to avoid lawsuits.

Disclaimers are saying, "I won't or I don't".
Whereas education is saying, "This is information you need to be aware of".