RecallChek


Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    David Taylor's Avatar
    David Taylor Guest

    Default improper metal installation

    We recently had an addition built and the building contractor put a metal roof on same. It looked so bad cosmetically that I had a roofing contractor come inspect it. He says that along with the metal being crooked, improper screw placement, and over tightening of screws. That the lap leg placement on the metal is reverse of what it should be. The contractor put the longer leg over the top of the metal. He says in a driving rain this can cause a siphoning effect. He said we will have water and moisture problems. He also stated that the contracor should have put decking down on a residential application. He installed same by putting 1 X 4 strips on the trusses, a foil backed bubble wrap, and then metal. He said without proper ventilation this could also cause problems later. Any opinion would be helpful thanks.

    Similar Threads:
    Elite MGA Home Inspector E&O Insurance

  2. #2
    Ken Rowe's Avatar
    Ken Rowe is offline Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    1,535

    Default Re: improper metal installation

    Bring this information to your local building official (the same people who issued the building permit and did the inspection) and ask them to come re-evaluate it. They can force the original contractor to correct it.

    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
    Minnesota Home Inspectors LLC
    ASHI #242887 mnradontesting.com

  3. #3
    Stacey Van Houtan's Avatar
    Stacey Van Houtan Guest

    Default Re: improper metal installation

    You need more information to determine correct installation. the metal guage and profile plus roof slope are needed. Also is there a attic in the design. Find out the Manafacuter to get installtions instructions. I supect anyone using bubble foil insulation, it reeks of DIY also with out any other info i can say that the long down leg should be on the bottom usually.

    Now having said that, if the roof is a 6-12 or more and the rope sealat was instlled correcty it may not be a leaker. But condensation may be issue .

    More info and pics would help


  4. #4
    David Taylor's Avatar
    David Taylor Guest

    Default Re: improper metal installation

    We dont have building codes or enforcement. We live in the county, the only permit we had to buy was an electrical permit. I will attempt to upload photos. It might give you an idea of the pitch and design of metal. There is a attic space in the design. The addition is designed with 8 ft and cathedral ceilings. I have drywall, and unfaced r-30 insulation seperating me from attic. The cathedral ceiling is enclosed with no rafters showing with same insulation, and drywall.

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images

  5. #5
    Stacey Van Houtan's Avatar
    Stacey Van Houtan Guest

    Default Re: improper metal installation

    This is a indeed a very poor install. It looks like they streched the sheets, a commong mistake, and the top grew bigger than the bottom. This makes the rake trim not fit tight as you can see in the first photo.

    The seams are backwards with the pitch of your roof this could be a issue. But the seams dont appear tight this is where a stitch screw should be and a structural screw in the flat next to it.

    There dont appear to be rubber closures at the drip edge, I could not see the ridged, but they should be there also. This type of roof would typicaly use a underlayment/slipsheet.

    I could go on.

    see the attached installation instruction for correct installaton

    Even things done wrong may work (keep the water out) BUT I would expect problems with this roof if not than sooner than you should.

    No larger than the home seems to be I would take it off use the metal over with mabe a few new sheets if needed.

    Good luck


  6. #6
    Stacey Van Houtan's Avatar
    Stacey Van Houtan Guest

    Default Re: improper metal installation

    This is a indeed a very poor install. It looks like they streched the sheets, a commong mistake, and the top grew bigger than the bottom. This makes the rake trim not fit tight as you can see in the first photo.

    The seams are backwards with the pitch of your roof this could be a issue. But the seams dont appear tight this is where a stitch screw should be and a structural screw in the flat next to it.

    There dont appear to be rubber closures at the drip edge, I could not see the ridged, but they should be there also. This type of roof would typicaly use a underlayment/slipsheet.

    I could go on.

    see the attached installation instruction for correct installaton

    Even things done wrong may work (keep the water out) BUT I would expect problems with this roof if not than sooner than you should.

    No larger than the home seems to be I would take it off use the metal over with mabe a few new sheets if needed.

    Good luck


  7. #7
    David Taylor's Avatar
    David Taylor Guest

    Default Re: improper metal installation

    I took the information to the contractor and he argued with me for some time. But he knows he did it wrong now and says he will make it right. I am posting some more photos. I am really afraid he doesnt have the knowledge or skill to make it correct. He says that he can simply unscrew it at the seams pick up one side and then pick up the other and drop them back down on each other reversing the lap leg placement. He admits that he has the foundation and room out of square and that it could have something to do with the metal on roof looking crooked like it does. He says he will attempt to fix this also. The addition is 6-7 degrees cooler then my existing house. It is insulated better with 1/2 polystrene sheeting on the outside, r-19 in the walls and r-30 in the ceiling. It also has energy star windows. Could this be because the decking is not on the roof? He does have the bubble wrap over the top pictured in photos. My existing house does have thicker insulation in ceiling. R-30 overlaid with r-19. But the walls have R-13 and the outside just has a thin fan fold. The windows are not energy compliant. Any ideas on the temperature difference. I noticed some of the bubble wrap is hanging down exposing the metal I attached a photo of this. My ridge cap is sealed with bubble wrap is that proper? I thought that was a ventilation point? Thanks for all your replies I am just trying to work this out and my knowledge of building is very little.

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images

  8. #8
    Jerry Peck's Avatar
    Jerry Peck is online now Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    23,183

    Default Re: improper metal installation

    Your second photos confirmed what I saw in the first photos - that the metal panels are installed on purlins across the trusses instead of over solid structural panel (plywood or OSB) roof sheathing.

    I wonder is that is in the engineering or if structural panel roof sheathing is required in your area and for those trusses as they were designed.

    Additionally, not all metal roof panels are approved for installation over purlins. Many are only approved for installation over solid sheathing (structural panel or 1x T&G sheathing). You need to find out if those are approved by the manufacturer for installation over purlins or is solid sheathing is 'required' or 'recommended', then check the truss engineering or check with the truss company and ask about it their design was solid sheathing or purlins.

    One photo shows two trusses side-by-side, both of different designs, one with a center king post and one with 'W' webs ... which makes me wonder "Why?", then wonder "What else did he do wrong?".

    Your other photos show a total lack of understanding about wind blown rain and doing what is necessary to keep water out.

    I agree with you, I doubt that "contractor" (and I use the term VERY LOOSELY) even knows how to do it correctly, and I doubt that metal will be re-usable anyway. You can rest assured that he will not spend any more money than he absolutely has to during any corrective work, which means the outcome will likely be worse than it is now.

    You need to contact: 1) the manufacturer of the metal roofing panels and ask them how this is to be installed and on what type of roof sheathing; 2) the truss manufacturer and ask them if the roof sheathing needs to be solid sheathing or are purlins okay; 3) the truss manufacturer about those two different trusses next to each other; 4) those are to start with.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    David Taylor's Avatar
    David Taylor Guest

    Default Re: improper metal installation

    Thanks for the reply. Any ideas on the temp differance between the rooms. When we built this addition we also had an hvac installer put in all new duct work and a new 14 seer heat pump. His work was inspected by the Electric membership who gave us the loan. They said everything was sealed, installed and working properly. But there is 6-7 degree differance on that side of the house. Could it be the lack of decking on the roof? I did call the metal manafacturer they say it is not really the way that they would reccomend doing residential construction but it would probably work if ventilated properly. They suggested adding an attic fan to keep the air moving. I will call the truss company monday. Thanks again. Really wishing the county we live in had a building inspector right now.


  10. #10
    Jerry Peck's Avatar
    Jerry Peck is online now Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    23,183

    Default Re: improper metal installation

    What insulation is in the addition?

    If both the addition and the room next to it are insulated the same at the ceiling/attic, the addition will still be colder in winter and warmer in summer as the addition has three exterior walls for heat loss / heat gain.

    While there is a gable vent in the end of the addition, they should have removed the gable vent in the original house to un-restrict the flow between attics, especially since there is none of the required attic ventilation for the addition visible.

    Roof sheathing under the metal roofing will help insulate over just metal roofing. Not a lot, but some.

    I think your main problem, heating and cooling-wise is that the addition has three exterior walls - it's out there all on its.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
    Stacey Van Houtan's Avatar
    Stacey Van Houtan Guest

    Default Re: improper metal installation

    If at all possible don't pay him and get someone else to do the work. To take up the roof laps may not be possible depending on how well the rope caulk is adhereing
    If you are put into a retofit/repair mode due to budjet and the contractor not willing to replace the roof I would have think about the approach.

    You have a waterproof issue and also you may have a condensation issue at the torn bubble wrap areas. The bubble wrap is only for condenstation control
    The attic should be vented ridge and soffit vents. but a quick outside air temp change will cause consdensation at the areas that have expose metal

    Many reasons could be a cause of temp difference. The insulation is only 1 piece of that puzzle

    The roofing is too long at the eve. It may over shoot the gutter


  12. #12
    David Bell's Avatar
    David Bell is offline Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    CT shoreline
    Posts
    657

    Default Re: improper metal installation

    I've seen that type of panel used for siding of pre-fab metal buildings but never seen it used for roofing material.


  13. #13
    David Taylor's Avatar
    David Taylor Guest

    Default Re: improper metal installation

    I believe it is a roofing panel but at this point nothing would suprise me. The contractor said that he got my foundation out of square and it followed him on up to the roof. He admitts this might be part of the problem. He admitts he could have avoided this by knocking out thirty block. He said the footers were right he just got going sideways on the block and chose to keep building. I have since had a few other roofers out. Two said they would not let original person re-install metal, that he had no idea what he was doing. If the roof is that far out of square I was offered 2 solutions, one said he would tear off the metal discard it because it is no good anymore, deck it with osb then lay the new metal starting on the left of the new addition meeting the existing house and if necessary cut a panel and seam it together at that point. The other roofer wants to take off old metal deck it with osb, then while putting old metal back on he said he would bow the top of the pieces, shortening the top span and attempt to walk the metal over to make it more straight. He said the old metal should be ok to reuse that we might have to buy a couple of panels. Any opinions on this. I also had two other roofers look at same but they did not really offer any other solutions. They all agreed it was a poor install that it is not done properly. Does anyone have any opinions on which of the two ideas would be the proper way to correct this or possibley have another idea on correcting same. I know the laps should be reversed and osb should be put down, but I would also like the roof to look good cosmetically and that may be hard to do if roof is out of square. Everyone I have talked to says metal roofs are unforgiving in this aspect. That if everything is not straight it is hard to make them look good. thanks for everyones input.


  14. #14
    Jerry Peck's Avatar
    Jerry Peck is online now Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    23,183

    Default Re: improper metal installation

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Everyone I have talked to says metal roofs are unforgiving in this aspect. That if everything is not straight it is hard to make them look good. thanks for everyones input.

    Change "hard to make them look good" to "almost impossible to make them look good" (or at least "very hard" if not impossible).

    Metal roof panels do not flex, they bow and oil can, showing wrinkles and never lay right.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  15. #15
    Mitchell Toelle's Avatar
    Mitchell Toelle Guest

    Default Re: improper metal installation

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    I believe it is a roofing panel but at this point nothing would suprise me. The contractor said that he got my foundation out of square and it followed him on up to the roof. He admitts this might be part of the problem. He admitts he could have avoided this by knocking out thirty block. He said the footers were right he just got going sideways on the block and chose to keep building. I have since had a few other roofers out. Two said they would not let original person re-install metal, that he had no idea what he was doing. If the roof is that far out of square I was offered 2 solutions, one said he would tear off the metal discard it because it is no good anymore, deck it with osb then lay the new metal starting on the left of the new addition meeting the existing house and if necessary cut a panel and seam it together at that point. The other roofer wants to take off old metal deck it with osb, then while putting old metal back on he said he would bow the top of the pieces, shortening the top span and attempt to walk the metal over to make it more straight. He said the old metal should be ok to reuse that we might have to buy a couple of panels. Any opinions on this. I also had two other roofers look at same but they did not really offer any other solutions. They all agreed it was a poor install that it is not done properly. Does anyone have any opinions on which of the two ideas would be the proper way to correct this or possibley have another idea on correcting same. I know the laps should be reversed and osb should be put down, but I would also like the roof to look good cosmetically and that may be hard to do if roof is out of square. Everyone I have talked to says metal roofs are unforgiving in this aspect. That if everything is not straight it is hard to make them look good. thanks for everyones input.
    I'm surprised no body has mentioned this..or asked the question: You do have small claims civil court in your state, don't you? Just a thought. I've seen poor workmanship and incompetance before but as Jerry said, the term "contractor" has to be used very loosly here.

    Certainly, if this guy is licensed in your state, he has to be given an opportunity to fix what he has messed up. However, he has to fix it properly...starting with the foundation flub. If he is not willing to, you have a great case.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •