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  1. #1
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Is there a requirement for straps on an attic furnace

    Is there a requirement for hold down straps on a gas furnace in an attic.
    or can they just move around and pull on the gas line?

    This unit is just sitting on 4x4 treated blocks it slides very easy.

    Best

    Ron

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    Not that I am aware of. Don't think I've ever seen it. Usually the attic jobs I see are either hung from the rafters on a sheet of plywood or set on isolation pads.
    Flex connections aren't allowed here to the furnace.

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  3. #3
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    Got It. It is in the CA Code. must be strap down with cross bracing.

    Best

    Ron


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    I'm guessing that's because of earthquakes?

    www.aic-chicago.com
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    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    Ron
    I need a code ref as I'm unaware of that requirement.
    Thanks

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    jerry,
    calif mech code section 304.4 anchorage of appliances. need wordage?


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    Thanks, but I've got a complete collection of code books, all up to date.
    UMC 304.4 I overlooked and I guess I'm losing it because I was aware of such, but as I've stated otherplaces here, age plays unkind tricks on old brains.

    2006 UMC & 2007 CMC: 304.4 - Anchorage of Appliances. Appliances designed to be fixed in position shall be securely fastened in place. Supports for appliances shall be designed and constructed to sustain vertical and horizontal loads within the stress limitations specified in the Building Code.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  8. #8
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    Thanks, but I've got a complete collection of code books, all up to date.
    UMC 304.4 I overlooked and I guess I'm losing it because I was aware of such, but as I've stated otherplaces here, age plays unkind tricks on old brains.

    2006 UMC & 2007 CMC: 304.4 - Anchorage of Appliances. Appliances designed to be fixed in position shall be securely fastened in place. Supports for appliances shall be designed and constructed to sustain vertical and horizontal loads within the stress limitations specified in the Building Code.
    Jerry what is the program that you and others are using to cut and paste the codes?

    Best

    Ron


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    Jerry what is the program the you and others are using to cut and paste the codes?

    Best

    Ron
    I use Adobe.
    M1201.1 Scope. The provisions of Chapters 12 through 24
    shall regulate the design, installation, maintenance, alteration
    and inspection of mechanical systems that are permanently
    installed and used to control environmental conditions within
    buildings. These chapters shall also regulate those mechanical
    systems, system components, equipment and appliances specifically
    addressed in this code.
    M1201.2 Application. In addition to the general administration
    requirements of Chapter 1, the administrative provisions
    of this chapter shall also apply to the mechanical requirements
    of Chapters 13 through 24.

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 01-12-2009 at 03:23 PM.
    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  10. #10
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    I use Adobe.
    M1201.1 Scope. The provisions of Chapters 12 through 24
    shall regulate the design, installation, maintenance, alteration
    and inspection of mechanical systems that are permanently
    installed and used to control environmental conditions within
    buildings. These chapters shall also regulate those mechanical
    systems, system components, equipment and appliances specifically
    addressed in this code.
    M1201.2 Application. In addition to the general administration
    requirements of Chapter 1, the administrative provisions
    of this chapter shall also apply to the mechanical requirements
    of Chapters 13 through 24.
    Thanks Scott. I was asking is there a web site that you are getting the codes from like code check or another information base. I need to get my hands on more codes and information.

    Best

    Ron


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    Ron
    I have most codes on CDs (all the IRC & IBCs) and I keep copies on my hard drive document files so when I need to quote something I just go to the appropriate code doc, find what I need, and copy and paste.

    With the 2008 NEC and 2007 CBC there are no CDs so itís typing time. There are times I wished EC Jerry lived in California then I'd let him do all the CBC copying and pasting. The NEC is very nefarious in guarding there codes. I have the 1999, 2002 and 2005 on disk, but no luck with the 2008.
    BTW, I've got the 2007 CPC & CMC on CDs and it sure makes life easier for quick look-ups and copying.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  12. #12
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    Cool Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    Woops, I almost forgot.... here you go: the 2007 CBC: CALIFORNIA

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  13. #13
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    Ron
    I have most codes on CDs (all the IRC & IBCs) and I keep copies on my hard drive document files so when I need to quote something I just go to the appropriate code doc, find what I need, and copy and paste.

    With the 2008 NEC and 2007 CBC there are no CDs so itís typing time. There are times I wished EC Jerry lived in California then I'd let him do all the CBC copying and pasting. The NEC is very nefarious in guarding there codes. I have the 1999, 2002 and 2005 on disk, but no luck with the 2008.
    BTW, I've got the 2007 CPC & CMC on CDs and it sure makes life easier for quick look-ups and copying.
    Jerry where did you order them from? do you have a web site or info.

    Best

    Ron


  14. #14
    Mitchell Toelle's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    Ron,

    Is thay pan extending all the way to the left under the entire evaporator? Also, that PVC fitting at the right corner of the pan does not appear to have anything connected to it, ie. discharge piping routed to exterior. I may be reading things into it but it looks like the truss cords are jambed right up against the front of the unit also. Kinda makes proper access an issue as well. You probably got all that though.

    Mitch Toelle


  15. #15
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchell Toelle View Post
    Ron,

    Is that pan extending all the way to the left under the entire evaporator? Also, that PVC fitting at the right corner of the pan does not appear to have anything connected to it, ie. discharge piping routed to exterior. I may be reading things into it but it looks like the truss cords are jambed right up against the front of the unit also. Kinda makes proper access an issue as well. You probably got all that though.

    Mitch Toelle
    Good eye Mitch. The funny part is that this is just a heater NO. AC.
    its a complete Wacke job install from every direction... Note the treated 4X4. blocks under the unit and In contact with the unnecessary pan. Its like this unit was on rollers your could push with a finger.

    I did not Known about the code on straps. it just did not look correct that it should just be free to move around like that.

    Best

    Ron


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps on a furnace

    Quote Originally Posted by brian schmitt View Post
    jerry,
    calif mech code section 304.4 anchorage of appliances. need wordage?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    Thanks, but I've got a complete collection of code books, all up to date.
    UMC 304.4 I overlooked and I guess I'm losing it because I was aware of such, but as I've stated otherplaces here, age plays unkind tricks on old brains.

    2006 UMC & 2007 CMC: 304.4 - Anchorage of Appliances. Appliances designed to be fixed in position shall be securely fastened in place. Supports for appliances shall be designed and constructed to sustain vertical and horizontal loads within the stress limitations specified in the Building Code.
    Does that apply in place of the IRC or the CA equivalent?

    This is from the IRC.

    M1307.2 Anchorage of appliances.
    Appliances designed to be fixed in position shall be fastened or anchored in an approved manner. In Seismic Design Categories D1 and D2, water heaters shall be anchored or strapped to resist horizontal displacement caused by earthquake motion. Strapping shall be at points within the upper one-third and lower one-third of the appliance’s vertical dimensions. At the lower point, the strapping shall maintain a minimum distance of 4 inches (102 mm) above the controls.

    Only water heaters is covered by "In Seismic Design Categories D1 and D2, water heaters shall be anchored or strapped to resist horizontal displacement caused by earthquake motion."


    Ron,

    Where is the sediment trap? Should be downstream of that shut off.

    Is it allowable to lay that flexible gas connector on the edge of the pan like that?

    Is it allowable to submerse that flexible gas connector and fittings in water like they will be when that pan collects water (as it is intended to)?

    The "working space access" to the equipment is lacking and does not meet code (not even close to meeting code).

    Those are just things I see for starters.



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  17. #17
    Jeff Remas's Avatar
    Jeff Remas Guest

    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    What code cycle actually applied to that installation?

    As a HI, unless you know what the exact code was during the initial installation, how can you cite current codes?

    How about just trying to research the manufacturer's installation instructions?

    I think it is common sense that it needs to be attached so as a professional giving his opinion, why do you even feel the need to justify your concern by backing it up with a code reference?


  18. #18
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Remas View Post
    What code cycle actually applied to that installation?

    As a HI, unless you know what the exact code was during the initial installation, how can you cite current codes?

    How about just trying to research the manufacturer's installation instructions?

    I think it is common sense that it needs to be attached so as a professional giving his opinion, why do you even feel the need to justify your concern by backing it up with a code reference?
    I don't

    Best

    Ron


  19. #19
    Jeff Remas's Avatar
    Jeff Remas Guest

    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    I don't

    Best

    Ron
    Absolutely, you don't have to.

    The only time I reference codes on a HI report is for new construction and I make it clear in my language that I am citing codes for reference and convenience and in no way acting as the AHJ.

    When I do work as a code inspector, I am required to cite codes for everything that I write up.


  20. #20
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Remas View Post
    Absolutely, you don't have to.

    The only time I reference codes on a HI report is for new construction and I make it clear in my language that I am citing codes for reference and convenience and in no way acting as the AHJ.

    When I do work as a code inspector, I am required to cite codes for everything that I write up.
    Thats great.

    Best

    Ron


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

    jerry,
    no irc here. umc, upc,nec, with calif amendments instead of irc. we will be adopting some form of the irc for the next code cycle(2010) but i think we will still keep the umc, upc,and nec with amendments. confusing? yes!


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