Thread: Is the a requirement for straps ona furnace

Is there a requirement for hold down straps on a gas furnace in an attic.
or can they just move around and pull on the gas line?

This unit is just sitting on 4x4 treated blocks it slides very easy.

Best

Ron

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Not that I am aware of. Don't think I've ever seen it. Usually the attic jobs I see are either hung from the rafters on a sheet of plywood or set on isolation pads.
Flex connections aren't allowed here to the furnace.

Got It. It is in the CA Code. must be strap down with cross bracing.

Best

Ron

I'm guessing that's because of earthquakes?

Ron
I need a code ref as I'm unaware of that requirement.
Thanks

jerry,
calif mech code section 304.4 anchorage of appliances. need wordage?

Thanks, but I've got a complete collection of code books, all up to date.
UMC 304.4 I overlooked and I guess I'm losing it because I was aware of such, but as I've stated otherplaces here, age plays unkind tricks on old brains.

2006 UMC & 2007 CMC: 304.4 - Anchorage of Appliances. Appliances designed to be fixed in position shall be securely fastened in place. Supports for appliances shall be designed and constructed to sustain vertical and horizontal loads within the stress limitations specified in the Building Code.

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

Thanks, but I've got a complete collection of code books, all up to date.
UMC 304.4 I overlooked and I guess I'm losing it because I was aware of such, but as I've stated otherplaces here, age plays unkind tricks on old brains.

2006 UMC & 2007 CMC: 304.4 - Anchorage of Appliances. Appliances designed to be fixed in position shall be securely fastened in place. Supports for appliances shall be designed and constructed to sustain vertical and horizontal loads within the stress limitations specified in the Building Code.

Jerry what is the program that you and others are using to cut and paste the codes?

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

Jerry what is the program the you and others are using to cut and paste the codes?

Best

Ron

I use Adobe.
M1201.1 Scope. The provisions of Chapters 12 through 24
shall regulate the design, installation, maintenance, alteration
and inspection of mechanical systems that are permanently
installed and used to control environmental conditions within
buildings. These chapters shall also regulate those mechanical
systems, system components, equipment and appliances specifically
addressed in this code.
M1201.2 Application. In addition to the general administration
requirements of Chapter 1, the administrative provisions
of this chapter shall also apply to the mechanical requirements
of Chapters 13 through 24.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

I use Adobe.
M1201.1 Scope. The provisions of Chapters 12 through 24
shall regulate the design, installation, maintenance, alteration
and inspection of mechanical systems that are permanently
installed and used to control environmental conditions within
buildings. These chapters shall also regulate those mechanical
systems, system components, equipment and appliances specifically
addressed in this code.
M1201.2 Application. In addition to the general administration
requirements of Chapter 1, the administrative provisions
of this chapter shall also apply to the mechanical requirements
of Chapters 13 through 24.

Thanks Scott. I was asking is there a web site that you are getting the codes from like code check or another information base. I need to get my hands on more codes and information.

Best

Ron

Ron
I have most codes on CDs (all the IRC & IBCs) and I keep copies on my hard drive document files so when I need to quote something I just go to the appropriate code doc, find what I need, and copy and paste.

With the 2008 NEC and 2007 CBC there are no CDs so it’s typing time. There are times I wished EC Jerry lived in California then I'd let him do all the CBC copying and pasting. The NEC is very nefarious in guarding there codes. I have the 1999, 2002 and 2005 on disk, but no luck with the 2008.
BTW, I've got the 2007 CPC & CMC on CDs and it sure makes life easier for quick look-ups and copying.

Woops, I almost forgot.... here you go: the 2007 CBC: CALIFORNIA

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

Ron
I have most codes on CDs (all the IRC & IBCs) and I keep copies on my hard drive document files so when I need to quote something I just go to the appropriate code doc, find what I need, and copy and paste.

With the 2008 NEC and 2007 CBC there are no CDs so it’s typing time. There are times I wished EC Jerry lived in California then I'd let him do all the CBC copying and pasting. The NEC is very nefarious in guarding there codes. I have the 1999, 2002 and 2005 on disk, but no luck with the 2008.
BTW, I've got the 2007 CPC & CMC on CDs and it sure makes life easier for quick look-ups and copying.

Jerry where did you order them from? do you have a web site or info.

Best

Ron

Ron,

Is thay pan extending all the way to the left under the entire evaporator? Also, that PVC fitting at the right corner of the pan does not appear to have anything connected to it, ie. discharge piping routed to exterior. I may be reading things into it but it looks like the truss cords are jambed right up against the front of the unit also. Kinda makes proper access an issue as well. You probably got all that though.

Mitch Toelle

Originally Posted by Mitchell Toelle

Ron,

Is that pan extending all the way to the left under the entire evaporator? Also, that PVC fitting at the right corner of the pan does not appear to have anything connected to it, ie. discharge piping routed to exterior. I may be reading things into it but it looks like the truss cords are jambed right up against the front of the unit also. Kinda makes proper access an issue as well. You probably got all that though.

Mitch Toelle

Good eye Mitch. The funny part is that this is just a heater NO. AC.
its a complete Wacke job install from every direction... Note the treated 4X4. blocks under the unit and In contact with the unnecessary pan. Its like this unit was on rollers your could push with a finger.

I did not Known about the code on straps. it just did not look correct that it should just be free to move around like that.

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by brian schmitt

jerry,
calif mech code section 304.4 anchorage of appliances. need wordage?

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

Thanks, but I've got a complete collection of code books, all up to date.
UMC 304.4 I overlooked and I guess I'm losing it because I was aware of such, but as I've stated otherplaces here, age plays unkind tricks on old brains.

2006 UMC & 2007 CMC: 304.4 - Anchorage of Appliances. Appliances designed to be fixed in position shall be securely fastened in place. Supports for appliances shall be designed and constructed to sustain vertical and horizontal loads within the stress limitations specified in the Building Code.

Does that apply in place of the IRC or the CA equivalent?

This is from the IRC.

M1307.2 Anchorage of appliances.

Appliances designed to be fixed in position shall be fastened or anchored in an approved manner. In Seismic Design Categories D1 and D2, water heaters shall be anchored or strapped to resist horizontal displacement caused by earthquake motion. Strapping shall be at points within the upper one-third and lower one-third of the appliance’s vertical dimensions. At the lower point, the strapping shall maintain a minimum distance of 4 inches (102 mm) above the controls.

Only water heaters is covered by "In Seismic Design Categories D1 and D2, water heaters shall be anchored or strapped to resist horizontal displacement caused by earthquake motion."

Ron,

Where is the sediment trap? Should be downstream of that shut off.

Is it allowable to lay that flexible gas connector on the edge of the pan like that?

Is it allowable to submerse that flexible gas connector and fittings in water like they will be when that pan collects water (as it is intended to)?

The "working space access" to the equipment is lacking and does not meet code (not even close to meeting code).

Those are just things I see for starters.

What code cycle actually applied to that installation?

As a HI, unless you know what the exact code was during the initial installation, how can you cite current codes?

How about just trying to research the manufacturer's installation instructions?

I think it is common sense that it needs to be attached so as a professional giving his opinion, why do you even feel the need to justify your concern by backing it up with a code reference?

Originally Posted by Jeff Remas

What code cycle actually applied to that installation?

As a HI, unless you know what the exact code was during the initial installation, how can you cite current codes?

How about just trying to research the manufacturer's installation instructions?

I think it is common sense that it needs to be attached so as a professional giving his opinion, why do you even feel the need to justify your concern by backing it up with a code reference?

I don't

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

I don't

Best

Ron

Absolutely, you don't have to.

The only time I reference codes on a HI report is for new construction and I make it clear in my language that I am citing codes for reference and convenience and in no way acting as the AHJ.

When I do work as a code inspector, I am required to cite codes for everything that I write up.

Originally Posted by Jeff Remas

Absolutely, you don't have to.

The only time I reference codes on a HI report is for new construction and I make it clear in my language that I am citing codes for reference and convenience and in no way acting as the AHJ.

When I do work as a code inspector, I am required to cite codes for everything that I write up.

Thats great.

Best

Ron

jerry,
no irc here. umc, upc,nec, with calif amendments instead of irc. we will be adopting some form of the irc for the next code cycle(2010) but i think we will still keep the umc, upc,and nec with amendments. confusing? yes!