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  1. #1
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    Post No register vents in bathrooms

    No register vents or other heat source installed in bathrooms, home was built in 2006. I have noted this in the report and that heating and cooling in bathrooms may be inadequate. However I was wanting to know what the code requirement is for a heat source to be installed, such as maximum size a room can be without a heat source.

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  2. #2
    Jeff Remas's Avatar
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    I see this in smaller bathrooms that are not on exterior walls. There seems to be enough heat around them to keep them warm.

    They are required however by R303.8 to be able to maintain 68F during the winter. If you can measure the temperature in the room when the other systems are set to 68F to see if they are adequate to keep that room at or above 68F.

    If the bathrooms are on an outside wall then I highly doubt they can maintain temperature.

    Make sure they don't have radiat floor heat in that area before you make the call.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    How about a water closet that is in a bathroom that has registers in the main part of the bathroom but not in the water closet? Outside of it just being poor planing, I don't think that the water closet needs to have a register in it.

    Any opines?

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
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  4. #4
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    Toilet room in a master bath? I don't think one needs to go that far.

    A vent in any room including a bathroom or walk in closet???

    Absolutely. If for nothing else, air circulation. I really don't care what kind of reasoning anyone wants to come up with. Poor air circulation = possible stuffy, musty, humid, heavy air or possible moldy situations. I don't care about saying an HAVOC system is not for removing moisture in a bath. I say, HUH. Sure does work now doesn't it. As far as a vent in the toilet closet, I think the vent in the bath moves the air around enough to not have one in there.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Remas View Post
    I see this in smaller bathrooms that are not on exterior walls. There seems to be enough heat around them to keep them warm.

    They are required however by R303.8 to be able to maintain 68F during the winter. If you can measure the temperature in the room when the other systems are set to 68F to see if they are adequate to keep that room at or above 68F.

    If the bathrooms are on an outside wall then I highly doubt they can maintain temperature.

    Make sure they don't have radiat floor heat in that area before you make the call.
    Jeff,

    That is a mis-application of that code section. Bathrooms are not included.

    From the 2006 IRC. (underlining is mine)
    - R303.8 Required heating. When the winter design temperature in Table R301.2(1) is below 60°F (16°C), every dwelling unit shall be provided with heating facilities capable of maintaining a minimum room temperature of 68°F (20°C) at a point 3 feet (914 mm) above the floor and 2 feet (610 mm) from exterior walls in all habitable rooms at the design temperature. The installation of one or more portable space heaters shall not be used to achieve compliance with this section.

    HABITABLE SPACE. A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered habitable spaces.

    Also, when R303.8 is applicable from this point inward "at a point 3 feet (914 mm) above the floor and 2 feet (610 mm) from exterior walls", which leave out almost half of the typical 5 x 8 standard bathroom.


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    The half bath had no exterior walls, most likely not a problem. But the upstairs bath and master bath are on exterior walls. These rooms need register vents installed.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Trent Tarter View Post
    But the upstairs bath and master bath are on exterior walls. These rooms need register vents installed.

    Define "need".

    1) Do you mean "need" as in "shall" by code?

    2) Or do you mean "need" as in "it's cold in there and you really need heating vents to help heat it up"?

    If you mean 1), you are incorrect.

    If you mean 2), that is applying common sense.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    Jerry here is what I mean and what I put in the report.
    No register vents are installed in the bathrooms. If comfortable temperatures can not be maintained in these rooms the client may need to have additional ducts and register vents installed.


  9. #9
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Jeff,

    That is a mis-application of that code section. Bathrooms are not included.

    From the 2006 IRC. (underlining is mine)
    - R303.8 Required heating. When the winter design temperature in Table R301.2(1) is below 60F (16C), every dwelling unit shall be provided with heating facilities capable of maintaining a minimum room temperature of 68F (20C) at a point 3 feet (914 mm) above the floor and 2 feet (610 mm) from exterior walls in all habitable rooms at the design temperature. The installation of one or more portable space heaters shall not be used to achieve compliance with this section.

    HABITABLE SPACE. A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered habitable spaces.


    Also, when R303.8 is applicable from this point inward "at a point 3 feet (914 mm) above the floor and 2 feet (610 mm) from exterior walls", which leave out almost half of the typical 5 x 8 standard bathroom.
    JP: You are certainly correct, but I think the author of the IRC is not. A space in which one is living is just that. Most folks don't usually go to all the trouble to die before going into their bathroom or closet, not even in the hallway on the way to those places.

    This is likely an author, like Commandate Bush, whose first language is other than English.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    JP: You are certainly correct, but I think the author of the IRC is not. A space in which one is living is just that. Most folks don't usually go to all the trouble to die before going into their bathroom or closet, not even in the hallway on the way to those places.
    I disagree.

    The authors likely understood that one does not spend great amounts of time in those excepted areas.

    With the possible exception of the bathroom of teenage girls and their 3 hour long showers, but then, they do not need heat in the bathroom as they heated the bathroom up with their use of ALL of the hot water.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  11. #11
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I disagree.

    The authors likely understood that one does not spend great amounts of time in those excepted areas.

    With the possible exception of the bathroom of teenage girls and their 3 hour long showers, but then, they do not need heat in the bathroom as they heated the bathroom up with their use of ALL of the hot water.
    JP: Either: (1) you are not married; (2) you are married, but are deaf and blind; or (3) you have supply registers in your bathrooms. The folks at the ICC, though much better than their predecessors, are still not living in the real world from time to time. You might be able to relate to that . . .


  12. #12

    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    Hey, quit picking on Jerry. I happen to fully agree with him for once.


  13. #13
    Jeff Remas's Avatar
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    In our area, we would just use P2603.6 and require both heating and insulation to get heat into the bathroom.

    Of course in FL this is not an issue but around here a bathroom in a corner with 2 outside walls is guaranteed to freeze pipes, especially when the sinks are on outside walls.


  14. #14
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Remas View Post
    In our area, we would just use P2603.6 and require both heating and insulation to get heat into the bathroom.

    Of course in FL this is not an issue but around here a bathroom in a corner with 2 outside walls is guaranteed to freeze pipes, especially when the sinks are on outside walls.
    Jeff: That will not work down in Flahdah. They never have cold pipes - unless, of course they run out of crack. I'm not spoofing you here. JP said on another thread that they did not even have such a thing as a cold joint. Smoke them right down to the ash, they do . . .


  15. #15
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Remas View Post
    In our area, we would just use P2603.6 and require both heating and insulation to get heat into the bathroom.

    Of course in FL this is not an issue but around here a bathroom in a corner with 2 outside walls is guaranteed to freeze pipes, especially when the sinks are on outside walls.
    Even in Naw Yark and Pencilviena (for Aaron ) that code section would require providing heat to the bathroom.

    Insulation in the exterior wall is required by the energy code.

    P2603.6 only applies to "pipe shall not be installed outside of a building, in exterior walls, in attics or crawl spaces, or in any other place subjected to freezing temperature", and that is not being discussed at all. Now, IF the plumbing were to be installed in the exterior walls ... EVEN WITH HEAT supplied to the bathroom, that would be a violation.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    Please remember that the codes are minimum requirements.
    Yep, as a builder I put heat outlets in the bathrooms just like everybody else did. It was a common industry standard out on the west coast. However, the code clearly states that bathrooms are not considered habitable rooms and until the day arrives when they change that status builders need not install heating outlets in bathrooms.

    For the older greybeards, remember when our old bathrooms where huge and not only had a tub and separate stall shower but an electric wall heater? Of course sometimes an idiot would install a towel bar directly above them. Think that may be a "write-up?"


    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  17. #17
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post

    .
    Of course sometimes an idiot would install a towel bar directly above them. Think that may be a "write-up?"
    .
    What Ya Got Against Toasty Warm Towels ?
    .

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    For the older greybeards, remember when our old bathrooms where huge and not only had a tub and separate stall shower but an electric wall heater?

    WC Jerry,

    That's because the old bathrooms were ... regular rooms which had bathing facilities added into them. Then "special" rooms were designed to house the bathing facilities, and those special rooms were only as large as necessary to accommodate everything, including those electric heaters.

    I remember as a kid the bathrooms in the old church in my hometown, the toilets were those wood tanks mounted up high with the pull chain to flush with, even had a true "watercloset" with just enough room for the "watercloset" (with the high mounted wood tank) and you to stand up in and semi-straddle the bowl while pulling your pants up or down. We sure have come a long way!

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  19. #19
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: No register vents in bathrooms

    Then "special" rooms were designed to house the bathing facilities, and those special rooms were only as large as necessary to accommodate everything, including those electric heaters.
    JP: So then, you mean to say that it is the design professionals that are to blame here? G.D. engineers are usually in it up to their ears when all is said and done.

    I remember as a kid the bathrooms in the old church in my hometown, the toilets were those wood tanks mounted up high with the pull chain
    JP: When I was a kid my grandparents lived in what was then the sticks in Grayson County, TX, where the bathroom was so special that it was located about 150 feet behind the house. The only heat was being produced by the composting materials in the hole in the ground directly below where your butt protruded through an opening in a pine board. The door faced to the north, so in the winter, if you did not really need to go you would not.

    The house was not much better. It was a vernacular-built wood frame with pine planks inside and out of the 2X3 sweet gum studs.The walls were "insulated" with news papers over the interior planks followed by wallpaper. There was no attic insulation. The house was heated by vent-free gas space heaters - the old cast iron type. No CO danger there, the house leaked enough for all the combustion air you could ever want.

    We used to put bricks in the oven after supper to warm and then would put them in wool socks to put under our feet while sleeping.

    Water came through a pipe from the well outside the kitchen window. The bath room was a large closet with a cast iron tub. After heating the water in the kitchen we'd carry it to the bathroom and bathe.

    Sorry, got lost in reverie there . . . times have certainly changed.


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