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  1. #1
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Ac cut off switch ????????

    This set up was at an inspection today. Secondary drain to drain line. Drain back to pan further down. Pipe straight dow and then elbows off to meet a float cut of switch OR is it an inline flow meter. What ever it is it is certainly about the screwiest thought I have seen in a while.

    I won't get into the primary drain set up.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ac cut off switch ????????

    I think this can be blamed on the installer getting high from the solvent fumes.

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
    www.ArnoldHomeInspections.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Ac cut off switch ????????

    Actually, once you get past the screwiness look of it and follow it out, that installer covered all the bases, like many of say should be done, redundancy upon redundancy.

    First, the primary condensate line is separate, albeit if missing its trap it is required to have.

    Second, the secondary condensate line is drained to the outside with a shut off float switch, which means that little, if anything, will ever get in the auxiliary drain pan, but, if it does get something in there, the auxiliary drain pan drains too, and has a shut off float switch too - the same drain line and shut off float switch as the secondary condensate drain line, which makes it really no different than draining the secondary condensate drain line into the auxiliary drain pan and then draining the auxiliary drain pan. All of which is, of course, not trapped either.

    Other than the two missing traps, they covered all the bases. Oh, and not insulating the condensate drain lines, they forgot that too.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  4. #4
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ac cut off switch ????????

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Actually, once you get past the screwiness look of it and follow it out, that installer covered all the bases, like many of say should be done, redundancy upon redundancy.

    First, the primary condensate line is separate, albeit if missing its trap it is required to have.

    Second, the secondary condensate line is drained to the outside with a shut off float switch, which means that little, if anything, will ever get in the auxiliary drain pan, but, if it does get something in there, the auxiliary drain pan drains too, and has a shut off float switch too - the same drain line and shut off float switch as the secondary condensate drain line, which makes it really no different than draining the secondary condensate drain line into the auxiliary drain pan and then draining the auxiliary drain pan. All of which is, of course, not trapped either.

    Other than the two missing traps, they covered all the bases. Oh, and not insulating the condensate drain lines, they forgot that too.
    My question is. When the water trickles past the float switch is it going to shut the system down or is it just going to trickle past it un noticed forever. Yes if the line gets blocked further down then it will back up and raise the float and then if the float does not work it drains all the way up into the pan, etc etc etc. And yes like I said I know of the primary concern but the secondary is still allowing air to blow out into the attic. etc etc.

    Anyway all the redundancey in the world is still not doing what it should in the slightest.

    I wrote it up as such and suggest the repair to make it right. Don't usually do that but it is a pretty simple case of the AC guy out thinking himself. Way to much thought into that to still be wrong on both the primary and secondary. He must have remembered someone else writing a unit up in the past and tried to remember all the right way to do it and out thunk himself. Must have given him a headache.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Ac cut off switch ????????

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    My question is. When the water trickles past the float switch is it going to shut the system down or is it just going to trickle past it un noticed forever. Yes if the line gets blocked further down then it will back up and raise the float
    And that is what it is supposed to do.

    and then if the float does not work it drains all the way up into the pan, etc etc etc. And yes like I said I know of the primary concern but the secondary is still allowing air to blow out into the attic. etc etc.
    How many redundancy systems do you expect? You've already got more than most.

    Anyway all the redundancey in the world is still not doing what it should in the slightest.
    Why not, or should I ask "what should it be doing"?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ac cut off switch ????????

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    And that is what it is supposed to do.



    How many redundancy systems do you expect? You've already got more than most.



    Why not, or should I ask "what should it be doing"?

    Jerry

    The likelyhood of the drain line getting plogged up on the slope to the outside and not in an elbow or trap is next to nill. A float cut of switch should be in an area where it will be doing some good. It will not rise enough with a trickle of water so the line will have to be stopped up.

    This also takes care of nothing to do with air blowing into the attic. As it set up right now there is nothing to alert the occupants that water is draining out of the overflow unless they mow their own lawn and see the trickle coming out of the underside of the soffit. This is a single older woman and I am sure there will be someone taking care of the yard.

    Anyway, like I said it is a useless set up as it is. Personally I would remove all that hook up. Put a float cut off switch in the stub out of the overflow drain line and if it does back up into the overflow line then the unit shuts down. Of course keep the pan under the unit in case the switch stops working and drain it to the exterior. This eliminates the trap, the trap cleanout and the vent and the need to clean out the trap cause there won't be one. Add a trap clean out and trap and the vent for the main drain line. Insulate the drain lines.

    Like I said, way to much thought for doing something wrong altogether.

    And the secondary drain line as it stands get seriously cold and drips into the pan and the plywood below.

    Just all wrong.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Ac cut off switch ????????

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    The likelyhood of the drain line getting plogged up on the slope to the outside and not in an elbow or trap is next to nill. A float cut of switch should be in an area where it will be doing some good.
    Ted, it serves its designed and intended purpose where it is.

    It will not rise enough with a trickle of water so the line will have to be stopped up.
    THAT is its designed and intended purpose. Clogged up.

    It is not designed nor intended to sense heavy or light flows of condensate, it is, however, intended to shut the unit off WHEN THE LINE STOPS DRAINING, i.e., becomes clogged.

    This also takes care of nothing to do with air blowing into the attic.
    No shut off float switch is designed or intended to have anything to do with that.

    THAT IS WHAT TRAPS ARE FOR.

    As it set up right now there is nothing to alert the occupants that water is draining out of the overflow unless they mow their own lawn and see the trickle coming out of the underside of the soffit.
    BINGO!

    That is why those are required to be discharging to a conspicuous place.

    If it is not discharging to a conspicuous place, then THAT is the problem, not that switch.

    Anyway, like I said it is a useless set up as it is.
    No, but it is not going to do what YOU want it to do. It will, however, do what THE CODE wants it to do, and what the manufacturer designed and made it to do.

    Personally I would remove all that hook up. Put a float cut off switch in the stub out of the overflow drain line and if it does back up into the overflow line then the unit shuts down. Of course keep the pan under the unit in case the switch stops working and drain it to the exterior. This eliminates the trap, the trap cleanout and the vent and the need to clean out the trap cause there won't be one.
    Oh, you mean you personally want it to be done WRONG? That is what you are saying.

    Add a trap clean out and trap and the vent for the main drain line. Insulate the drain lines.
    As I stated in my previous post, it needs a trap IN BOTH the primary and the secondary condensate lines. WHICH are you referring to with "main drain line"? I suspect you are meaning "the primary" condensate line.

    nd the secondary drain line as it stands get seriously cold and drips into the pan and the plywood below.
    That's why I noted that it needed to be insulated.

    Just all wrong.
    Nope, not "all" wrong. Just the things I pointed out in my post.

    The way YOU are describing doing it, yeah, that would be all wrong ... okay, I exaggerate slightly, that would only be partially wrong, like it is now, only you would be correcting part of what is wrong, and making part of what is correct to be wrong.

    Like I said, way to much thought for doing something wrong altogether.
    I agree, you are way over thinking that. You are over thinking so much that you have gone beyond what it wrong to now wanting to make the part which is correct to be wrong.

    Take two aspirins, get a good nights sleep, then re-visit it when you are fresh and clear minded.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ac cut off switch ????????

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Ted, it serves its designed and intended purpose where it is.



    THAT is its designed and intended purpose. Clogged up.

    It is not designed nor intended to sense heavy or light flows of condensate, it is, however, intended to shut the unit off WHEN THE LINE STOPS DRAINING, i.e., becomes clogged.



    No shut off float switch is designed or intended to have anything to do with that.

    THAT IS WHAT TRAPS ARE FOR.



    BINGO!

    That is why those are required to be discharging to a conspicuous place.

    If it is not discharging to a conspicuous place, then THAT is the problem, not that switch.



    No, but it is not going to do what YOU want it to do. It will, however, do what THE CODE wants it to do, and what the manufacturer designed and made it to do.



    Oh, you mean you personally want it to be done WRONG? That is what you are saying.



    As I stated in my previous post, it needs a trap IN BOTH the primary and the secondary condensate lines. WHICH are you referring to with "main drain line"? I suspect you are meaning "the primary" condensate line.



    That's why I noted that it needed to be insulated.



    Nope, not "all" wrong. Just the things I pointed out in my post.

    The way YOU are describing doing it, yeah, that would be all wrong ... okay, I exaggerate slightly, that would only be partially wrong, like it is now, only you would be correcting part of what is wrong, and making part of what is correct to be wrong.



    I agree, you are way over thinking that. You are over thinking so much that you have gone beyond what it wrong to now wanting to make the part which is correct to be wrong.

    Take two aspirins, get a good nights sleep, then re-visit it when you are fresh and clear minded.

    Jerry

    As I said. Not what you said. I said it is done wrong.

    Yes there should be a trap to keep air from discharging from the secondary drain line for it to be right. You do not want conditioned air blowing anywhere but into the home, not into drain lines, into the attic or to the exterior of the home or the drain pan. That is the RIGHT way to do it to be proper.

    As far as that FLOAT cut off switch it is absolutely useless where it is at because it will never do anything in that location unless a mouse tries to squeeze his sorry but into the end of that drain line outside.

    No need to be fresh and clear minded. Read above.

    Like I said it is wrong. Multiple items are completely wrong with both those drain and vent and no traps and no clean outs for the traps and no iunsulation for the lines and the completely uselesss float cut off switch that will be floating no where and conditioned air blow into places it need not be etc etc etc etc.

    There is so much wrong Jerry then YES it is all wrong and the tech way over thought himself into doing it all wrong. Just as you must be. It is a clear as the glass filled with your holiday Margarita juice in your hand.

    ASPRIN

    I don't need no schtinking asprin. You need to look at how much there is actually wrong and then look at what might be right and then come to the same conclusion *as YOU should* that the wrong far outways the right so it is all wrong.

    Good try though Jerry

    I think you might be thinking I am one of those lay down guys that just rolls over and says "OK Jerry. Yeah you are absolutely right! What could I have been thinking???????


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Ac cut off switch ????????

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    I think you might be thinking I am one of those lay down guys that just rolls over and says "OK Jerry. Yeah you are absolutely right! What could I have been thinking???????

    I know you are not one of those guys, but *I THOUGHT* you were the type to think out what was actually there and think about what it actually did, not a stick-to-your-guns-without-thinking guy.



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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