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  1. #1
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default When is a Closet a Room?

    New house today at pre-drywall stage. Builder converted space above garage into a media room. The 12 X 12 room adjacent to the media room he is calling an unfinished closet and refuses to add an A/C supply register.

    What say you?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: When is a Closet a Room?

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    New house today at pre-drywall stage. Builder converted space above garage into a media room. The 12 X 12 room adjacent to the media room he is calling an unfinished closet and refuses to add an A/C supply register.

    What say you?

    Well, "closets" are not "habitable space" and therefore do not require heat ...

    What say me? Builder is being obstinate and stooooopid.

    What does you client say? A few select words from you and your client may well demand the builder add a/c to that room. A few select words which come to mind are "mold", "mildew", "musty", "melting stored items", "exposed fiberglass insulation causing glass fibers in the air" (which, by the way, would actually be worse with a/c in that unfinished room with the fiberglass insulation exposed - you know you can't leave the paper facing exposed) ... those should get you started. Also, if that room is contain the media equipment, "overheating and damaged media equipment the the builder is going to have to replace" come to mind.

    Don't forget that it also needs a return.

    It is not a habitable room unless it also meets the requirements for natural light and ventilation (within the exception given, and if the builder wants to use that exception, then that becomes a habitable room and needs heating AND finishing off).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: When is a Closet a Room?

    It is what it is on the plan (at least until the buyer changes their mind)
    Do closets count as living space? Let's see 144 square feet @ $100 per foot, that decision might just have cost him $14,000 on the appraisal .

    In reality, I never get involved with the builder if possible, I tell the buyer the facts and let them make the call with the golden rule of home builders in mind: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
    I had one yesterday with a hidden storage area under the stairs that was accessed by a door behind a shelf in the master closet with windows, HVAC, carpet, about 12x12 but the ceiling was only about 4' tall. It had me scratching my head to find something wrong with it per code, but unless you call it a bedroom or living area, I could find nothing to prohibit a "closet" even if it was nicer than some folks bedrooms.

    On the plus side, on your deal, I doubt anyone will ever be tempted to make that a bedroom for the mother-in-law with no HVAC .

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    Default Re: When is a Closet a Room?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    about 12x12 but the ceiling was only about 4' tall.

    That one is easy, it cannot be considered habitable space as the ceiling it not high enough.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: When is a Closet a Room?

    What say me? Builder is being obstinate and stooooopid.
    JP: He also refuses to insulate the walls between the adjacent rooms (on threes sides) and does not intend to install a gasketed door.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: When is a Closet a Room?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    It is what it is on the plan (at least until the buyer changes their mind)
    Do closets count as living space? Let's see 144 square feet @ $100 per foot, that decision might just have cost him $14,000 on the appraisal .

    In reality, I never get involved with the builder if possible, I tell the buyer the facts and let them make the call with the golden rule of home builders in mind: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
    I had one yesterday with a hidden storage area under the stairs that was accessed by a door behind a shelf in the master closet with windows, HVAC, carpet, about 12x12 but the ceiling was only about 4' tall. It had me scratching my head to find something wrong with it per code, but unless you call it a bedroom or living area, I could find nothing to prohibit a "closet" even if it was nicer than some folks bedrooms.

    On the plus side, on your deal, I doubt anyone will ever be tempted to make that a bedroom for the mother-in-law with no HVAC .
    JL: A midgeteria?


  7. #7
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    Default Re: When is a Closet a Room?

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    JP: He also refuses to insulate the walls between the adjacent rooms (on threes sides) and does not intend to install a gasketed door.

    Aaron,

    That would be his down falling - not meeting code.

    Without that insulation, tell your client that he will be heating and cooling the great outdoors, there is no insulation between the rest of the heating and cooling conditioned area and the great outdoors.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: When is a Closet a Room?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Aaron,

    That would be his down falling - not meeting code.

    Without that insulation, tell your client that he will be heating and cooling the great outdoors, there is no insulation between the rest of the heating and cooling conditioned area and the great outdoors.
    JP: Agreed, however, builder boy says he does not insulate interior walls. This guy is a real piece of work


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    Default Re: When is a Closet a Room?

    When 3 mexicans are paying 100 dollars a week to sleep in it.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: When is a Closet a Room?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    That one is easy, it cannot be considered habitable space as the ceiling it not high enough.
    Well, "closets" are not "habitable space" and therefore do not require heat ...
    No attempt to call it anything else, just a storage area, a well appointed storage area. Carpet, HVAC, sprinklers, operable windows. If it was in a modest sized home, I would be concerned to point out that this was NOT a bedroom, but this was in a brand new 5000' home with 5 other bedrooms, game room, media room, etc.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  11. #11
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    Default Re: When is a Closet a Room?

    It is a play space for th grandkids. A little hidey hole clubhouse type space.

    "The Code is not a peak to reach but a foundation to build from."

  12. #12
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: When is a Closet a Room?

    Sorry

    Its a room on the second floor that will be doing nothing but sucking conditioned air from the house as it heats up and gets humid and being a bigger strain on the HVAC system than putting a supply vent in there.

    The builder is a fool to build a big home and have a 12x12 room and not have heat and air in it even if it were a closet. Why would he not utilize it as a room. You dsay room so I asume it is finished off.

    To even question whether it should have heat and air is beside me. All master closets I go into (almost all) have a vent in them for air circulation. If the home has a media room it is not your normal vanilla box home so what is the question.


  13. #13
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: When is a Closet a Room?

    The builder is a fool to build a big home and have a 12x12 room and not have heat and air in it even if it were a closet.
    Ted: Agreed. Troll Brothas.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: When is a Closet a Room?

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    Ted: Agreed. Troll Brothas.

    Enough said. They can be a PITA.

    rick


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