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  1. #1
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    Default Return air in kitchen

    M1602.3 According to this, returns are NOT allowed in kitchens correct? I was in a new house and just thought I was seeing things or something.


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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Return air in kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    M1602.3 According to this, returns are NOT allowed in kitchens correct? I was in a new house and just thought I was seeing things or something.
    Correct. Of course, you could have just been "seeing things", in which case you should consult with a neurologist ASAP.

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
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  3. #3
    Kevin Luce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return air in kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    ... and just thought I was seeing things or something.
    You might be seeing things. Take a look at the picture, if it looks like a normal frog, you're fine.

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Return air in kitchen

    LOL, kinda makes me hungry... BTW, the selling agent was there giving me grief about that, I'm sure you know how that story goes...


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Return air in kitchen

    Marc,
    Are you SURE it's in the kitchen? Could it have been NEAR the kitchen (for ex. around the corner of a cabinet and technically part of a hallway or something)?

    RJDalga
    http://homeanalysts.com
    Kalamazoo, MI

  6. #6
    Randy Cooper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return air in kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    M1602.3 According to this, returns are NOT allowed in kitchens correct? I was in a new house and just thought I was seeing things or something.
    M1602.3 appears to be a 2000 IRC refereance.
    "The 2000 International Residential Code prohibits sources of outside air as follows:M1602.3 Prohibited sources"That section prohibits the sorce of the outside intake into the system.

    It also appears that your in California and we here in California are currently under the 2007 California Mecanical Code modeled after the 2006 Uniformed Mecahnical Code. There is very little if nothing in the UMC regulating the location of return air in residential systems. Mostly common sence and industry standerds would apply. I don't see the problem unless it too close to a supply redgister or a smoke detector.




  7. #7
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    Exclamation Re: Return air in kitchen

    Actually, in the 2009 IRC it is under section m1602.2

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  8. #8
    Randy Cooper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return air in kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Harper View Post
    Actually, in the 2009 IRC it is under section m1602.2
    I wouldn't know, the guy asking the question was from CA, and he is under the 2007 CMC.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Return air in kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Dalga View Post
    Marc,
    Are you SURE it's in the kitchen? Could it have been NEAR the kitchen (for ex. around the corner of a cabinet and technically part of a hallway or something)?
    It was between the range and refer.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Return air in kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    M1602.3 According to this, returns are NOT allowed in kitchens correct? I was in a new house and just thought I was seeing things or something.
    Marc,

    You are under the CMC so the numbers are different, however, it that section worded similar to this section from the IMC?

    - 918.6 Prohibited sources. Outdoor or return air for a forced-air heating system shall not be taken from the following locations:
    - - 1. Closer than 10 feet (3048 mm) from an appliance vent outlet, a vent opening from a plumbing drainage system or the discharge outlet of an exhaust fan, unless the outlet is 3 feet (914 mm) above the outdoor air inlet.
    - - 2. Where there is the presence of objectionable odors, fumes or flammable vapors; or where located less than 10 feet (3048 mm)above the surface of any abutting public way or driveway; or where located at grade level by a sidewalk, street, alley or driveway.
    - - 3. A hazardous or insanitary location or a refrigeration machinery room as defined in this code.
    - - 4. A room or space, the volume of which is less than 25 percent of the entire volume served by such system. Where connected by a permanent opening having an area sized in accordance with Sections 918.2 and 918.3, adjoining rooms or spaces shall be considered as a single room or space for the purpose of determining the volume of such rooms or spaces.
    - - -
    Exception: The minimum volume requirement shall not apply where the amount of return air taken from a room or space is less than or equal to the amount of supply air delivered to such room or space.
    - - 5. A closet, bathroom, toilet room, kitchen, garage, mechanical room, boiler room or furnace room.
    - - 6. A room or space containing a fuel-burning appliance where such room or space serves as the sole source of return air.
    - - -
    Exceptions:

    - - - - 1. This shall not apply where the fuel-burning appliance is a direct-vent appliance.
    - - - - 2. This shall not apply where the room or space complies with the following requirements:
    - - - - - 2.1. The return air shall be taken from a room or space having a volume exceeding 1 cubic foot for each 10 Btu/h (9.6 L/W) of combined input rating of all fuel-burning appliances therein.
    - - - - - 2.2. The volume of supply air discharged back into the same space shall be approximately equal to the volume of return air taken from the space.
    - - - - - 2.3. Return-air inlets shall not be located within 10 feet (3048 mm)of any appliance firebox or draft hood in the same room or space.
    - - - - 3. This shall not apply to rooms or spaces containing solid fuel-burning appliances, provided that return-air inlets are located not less than 10 feet (3048 mm)from the firebox of such appliances.


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Return air in kitchen

    Wow...nice, thanks.


  12. #12
    Randy Cooper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return air in kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Marc,

    You are under the CMC so the numbers are different, however, it that section worded similar to this section from the IMC?

    - 918.6 Prohibited sources. Outdoor or return air for a forced-air heating system shall not be taken from the following locations:
    Section 918.6 dosn't exist in the 2007 California Mechanical code. The 2007 CMC is modeled after the 2006 Uniform Mechanical Code. The 06 UMC and or the 07 CMC dosn't address Return Air much more than a definition in section 203. We don't use the the IRC, IMC or the IPC. That being said, it would be hard to make a code call for the return air in a residential FAU systm being in a prohibited location in Calfiornia. The original guy was locatied in California and is required by state law to only inforce the code regualtions of California Title 24 code of regualtions of which the CMC is a part of.


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