Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Rumney, N.H.
    Posts
    32

    Cool Rinnai toyostove in bedroom

    My input plus a question. On a recent inspection I found a Rinnai Toyostove vented,
    Lazor 30- 14800 BTU ,ser #13411--Oil fired Heater [kero] installed on a carpet ,in a bedroom
    with out a floor pan and vented through the wall beneath a window, with about eight inches clearance to wall. It was electronic controlled, and I was unable to operate it , plus there was no owners manual to consult.
    I looked through the IRC and could not find any restrictions, nor could I find anything
    on the "Rinnai" site about it. I also tried to find if there might be any recalls on the unit ,
    but found none .
    Is this a proper installation?

    Similar Threads:
    NHIE Practice Exam

  2. #2
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Rinnai toyostove in bedroom

    Here is what the NC Mechanical code says about oil fire heaters:



    SECTION 921
    VENTED ROOM HEATERS

    921.1 General.
    Vented room heaters shall be listed and labeled
    and shall be installed in accordance with the conditions of the
    listing and the manufacturer's instructions.


    SECTION 922
    KEROSENE AND OIL-FIRED STOVES
    922.1 General.


    Kerosene and oil-fired stoves shall be listed
    and labeled and shall be installed in accordance with the conditions
    of the listing and the manufacturer's installation instructions.
    Kerosene and oil-fired stoves shall comply with NFPA 31.
    Oil-fired stoves shall be tested in accordance with UL 896.




  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Rumney, N.H.
    Posts
    32

    Default Re: Rinnai toyostove in bedroom

    Thank you James ,
    It was listed and labeled, and had a shut off. There was also
    a CO alarm and smoke detector instated in the room. Which I just noted but not
    tested. The owners manual was not available, although it looked properly installed.
    I was more concerned with the safety issue , as being in a bedroom. If a fire did develop ,
    It would be at the appliance , and with the shut off being low and in the rear , who would be
    fishing around for a shut off valve? Does this sound like a reasonable question?
    Thanks
    Steve


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,250

    Default Re: Rinnai toyostove in bedroom

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen DeCosta View Post
    Thank you James ,
    It was listed and labeled, and had a shut off. There was also a CO alarm and smoke detector instated in the room. Which I just noted but not tested. The owners manual was not available, although it looked properly installed.
    I was more concerned with the safety issue , as being in a bedroom. If a fire did develop ,
    It would be at the appliance , and with the shut off being low and in the rear , who would be fishing around for a shut off valve? Does this sound like a reasonable question?
    Note that this valve ...
    with the shut off being low and in the rear , who would be fishing around for a shut off valve?
    ... is not for emergency shut off but for shutting off for servicing, thus that would not be a consideration.

    While the following is from the Fuel Gas code section of the IRC (and noting that there is no Fuel Oil code section in the IRC), I would think that something like this would also apply to fuel oil appliances.
    - G2406.2 (303.3) Prohibited locations. Appliances shall not be located in sleeping rooms, bathrooms, toilet rooms, storage closets or surgical rooms, or in a space that opens only into such rooms or spaces, except where the installation complies with one of the following:
    - - 1. The appliance is a direct-vent appliance installed in accordance with the conditions of the listing and the manufacturer’s instructions.
    - - 2. Vented room heaters, wall furnaces, vented decorative appliances, vented gas fireplaces, vented gas fireplace heaters and decorative appliances for installation in vented solid fuel-burning fireplaces are installed in rooms that meet the required volume criteria of Section G2407.5.
    - - 3. A single wall-mounted unvented room heater is installed in a bathroom and such unvented room heater is equipped as specified in Section G2445.6 and has an input rating not greater than 6,000 Btu/h (1.76 kW). The b
    athroom shall meet the required volume criteria of Section G2407.5.
    - - 4. A single wall-mounted unvented room heater is installed in a bedroom and such unvented room heater is equipped as specified in Section G2445.6 and has an input rating not greater than 10,000 Btu/h (2.93 kW). The bedroom shall meet the required volume criteria of Section G2407.5.
    - - 5. The appliance is installed in a room or space that opens only into a bedroom or bathroom, and such room or space is used for no other purpose and is provided with a solid weather-stripped door equipped with an approved self-closing device. All combustion air shall be taken directly from the outdoors in accordance with Section G2407.6.

    Hopefully, Bob Harper will see this thread and respond to it.



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Rinnai toyostove in bedroom

    You might want to read NFPA 31 for more details on oil fueled installations. Here is a link to it. You may have to register to view it. (Not sure how to change the name of the link)

    Email Validation#


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,250

    Default Re: Rinnai toyostove in bedroom

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    You might want to read NFPA 31 for more details on oil fueled installations. Here is a link to it. You may have to register to view it. (Not sure how to change the name of the link)

    Email Validation#
    In that link there are specific clearances to combustible material (i.e., carpet is a combustible material).

    In 11.2.11.6, it does state that "Listed kerosene-burning portable heaters shall be permitted to be placed on combustible floors, but ... your installation does not sound like a "portable' heater installation.

    In skimming through NFPA 31 I did not see a reference to locations for installation, or prohibited locations for installation, maybe someone else did?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Near Philly, Pa.
    Posts
    1,643

    Cool Re: Rinnai toyostove in bedroom

    I can't seem to find my current '31 but my old 2001 ed. notes that 11.2.5 "In all cases, oil-burning stoves and kerosene-burning heaters that are supplied with fuel from separate supply tanks shall be securely attached to the floor or otherwise secured in position to avoid strains on piping."

    there is also an admonition in 11.2.3 to take "special care shall be employed in the installation of oil-burning stoves, kerosene burning room heaters, and kerosene burning portable heaters in order to avoid direct contact with combustible material, including draperies and curtains and to avoid accidental overturning." This is also a requirement in seismic zones D1 & D2.

    As usual, having the listed instructions here is key.

    I'm very curious as to what sort of venting this has. Type 'L' vent? Does it terminate at the sidewall? Listed wall pass-through?

    I would flag it for the time being advising not to use it until the listed instructions can be located and the unit re-inspected against these instructions. Otherwise, you should recommend capping the fuel line and removing it.

    BTW, you need about 92 square feet of room space for MUA.

    In the 2009 IRC, M-1410, it requires Vented Room Heaters be listed to ASTM E-1509 (pellet stoves) or UL 896 for oil, or 1482 for woodburning. In M1410.2 Fooor mounting. It calls for non-combustible flooring or approved assemblies unless the appliance is specifically listed for installation directly onto unprotected combustible flooring.

    Any pics of the stove installation, venting or vent termination?

    If there is a fire, you don't go fishing for a shutoff, you get the hell out and call 911 ! That's why the code specifically does not call these shutoffs 'emergency' as JP correctly noted. Since this unit uses electricity, the AHJ may be within his rights to require an emergency electrical disconnect at the entrance to the CAZ with the red cover plate.

    Last edited by Bob Harper; 07-05-2010 at 07:17 PM.
    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Near Philly, Pa.
    Posts
    1,643

    Red face Re: Rinnai toyostove in bedroom

    Ok. I Googled it as I should have in the first place and found the listed instructions on the mfrs site very easily.

    This is a listed forced direct vent appliance approved for placement on a sturdy combustible floor using the listed proprietary vent system. No need for MUA. The vent btw must pitch downwards a min. 3", which is unusual.

    Probably an ok installation but download the manual to be sure. BTW, they have Laser 30 a through d models.
    Sorry for jumping the gun,

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Rumney, N.H.
    Posts
    32

    Default Re: Rinnai toyostove in bedroom

    Thank you for your input , it has been a great help. I was able to view the NHPA 31,
    One other interesting issue on this installation, the fuel line came in from an outside
    tank, [insulated line], that ran under the basement floor joists,then through the floor, into a wall mounted fuel pump[electric] in the living room,back down through the floor, then over and up through the bedroom floor and into the heating unit. It seems that Re-Pos are a lot more time inspecting , no telling what one might find.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •