Thread: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing

This thread should have been dead weeks ago. Lets say you see something you have never seen before, maybe Chinese or a better term is "defective drywall." Are you going to rip out all the drywall, the wiring and everything else affected, replace everything and come back in 6 months to check it out now?? Report what you see (or smell) and move on with life...

Install a temporary thermostat? Jump the wires? You guys are nuts.

Thermostat damaged and inoperable - HVAC system could not be tested for operability - have entire HVAC system serviced by a HVAC professional and all repairs/replacements made as needed

Done.

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

Thermostat damaged and inoperable - HVAC system could not be tested for operability - have entire HVAC system serviced by a HVAC professional and all repairs/replacements made as needed.

This is better wording: ( changed the wording in bold red)

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

Thermostat damaged and inoperable - HVAC system DID NOT WORK - have entire HVAC system serviced by a HVAC professional and all repairs/replacements made as needed.

There you are -you have now said exactly what is needed "DID NOT WORK" (it did not), and thus it needs to be repaired (it does need to be repaired).

Saying it "could not be tested for operability" is like saying 'it might work, but I just could not test it' - but you DID test it, and it DID NOT WORK (of course it did not work, the thermostat was missing, but that is no different than if the breakers had been removed and "it did not work".

Your client needs your report to say what you found ... that it "did not work".

I'm not sure what is so hard about that. There could be many reasons "IT DID NOT WORK", are you going to carry spare parts to cover all scenarios? Of course not! Not even James carries spare parts to cover ALL scenarios, so just write it up for what you did find.

If the thermostat was intact and the system did not activate, then you could say "HVAC system did not work". If the thermostat is broken (and the thermostat is integral to getting the HVAC system to operate under normal conditions), then it is not accurate to say "HVAC system did not work" as that would infer you attempted to activate the system and it did not respond to normal operating controls.

The system might operate properly if it had a functional thermostat. But at this point, it is up to the HVAC pro to determine what does or doesn't need to be done.

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

If the thermostat was intact and the system did not activate, then you could say "HVAC system did not work". If the thermostat is broken (and the thermostat is integral to getting the HVAC system to operate under normal conditions), then it is not accurate to say "HVAC system did not work" as that would infer you attempted to activate the system and it did not respond to normal operating controls.

The system might operate properly if it had a functional thermostat. But at this point, it is up to the HVAC pro to determine what does or doesn't need to be done.

The thermostat is part of the system, and the system did not work. Plain and simple, cut and dried.

What you area saying is like the condenser unit coil was missing, but you cannot say the system did not work as you do not know that unless and until you install a condenser unit coil and try to operate the system.

Chose any part of the system and you can say the same thing.

Does that then mean you can never say the system does not work?

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Does that then mean you can never say the system does not work?

I saw a dishwasher in a house the other day where the drain line was not connected to the sink drain and would have exhausted water into the cabinet if I had tried to operate it. The unit might work properly if the drain line were hooked up. But I don't know what it would or wouldn't do as the installation was not complete. To say in this case "the dishwasher did not work" would infer I attempted to turn it on and it did not respond. That isn't the case. Likewise, saying a heating system, that has a damaged or missing thermostat, does not work would infer I attempted to turn it on and it did not respond.

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

I saw a dishwasher in a house the other day where the drain line was not connected to the sink drain and would have exhausted water into the cabinet if I had tried to operate it. The unit might work properly if the drain line were hooked up. But I don't know what it would or wouldn't do as the installation was not complete. To say in this case "the dishwasher did not work" would infer I attempted to turn it on and it did not respond. That isn't the case. Likewise, saying a heating system, that has a damaged or missing thermostat, does not work would infer I attempted to turn it on and it did not respond.

The above would be applicable if we were discussing not running the a/c system because the condensate drain went to a condensate pump and the drain line from the pump was not connected.

However, it is not anything like what we are discussing, but THIS IS: you go to check a dishwasher and the control panel is missing (that is what a thermostat is, the control panel for the a/c system. You then can report the dishwasher was not working ... then continue with (just like with the a/c system) ... the dishwasher was not working, the control panel was missing, have the dishwasher repaired as needed ... which is the same as saying that the a/c system did not work, the thermostat (i.e., control panel) was missing, have the a/c system repaired as needed.

I really do not understand what is so hard about this concept, but I really am trying to find what must be a complicated reason as all the simple reasons say that the thermostat is the control panel for the a/c system and that without the control panel the a/c system did not work, and that the a/c system needs to be repaired as needed.

That means that an a/c contractor comes out, looks at the a/c system and determines as best possible that replacing the thermostat is not going to cause any further damage, replaces the thermostat, operates the system, then determines what else is not working right. That is, after all, what they are paid to do. It is not, after all, what the home inspector is expected nor paid to do.

My verbiage works fine for me.

Hello, the AC unit did not respond to normal controls, end of story. The dishwasher drain was not connected, end of story. The furnace did not come on using normal controls, thats it. Now if you want to interfer with a long selling process and remember we get paid the others or commission people, then, keep trying to make this inspection process more complicated then it should be. Some things of course need to be addressed and thats what we are paid for but we are not paid to be a pain in the you know what. We can argue this point forever some will always let the ego get in the way of a good business practice.

Sorry I just got carried away don't mean to offend anyone.

Don't hold back Bill. Tell us what you really think.

At times I just get worn out reading these long posts. I need to get a NOOK so I can keep up all day long.

If I can continue to string this thing along. As an A/C technician, when I come across something unusual like a missing stat, or unplugged/switched off piece of equipment. I always look the system over checking for debris in the blower housing and who knows what else. As far as a missing stat, I always check that the wiring is correct at the unit. Just because a wire is red doesn't mean it's 24v hot. Actually that wire will be whatever you want it to be. Heck, that wire doesn't even know it's red.

Originally Posted by ray jackson

If I can continue to string this thing along. As an A/C technician, when I come across something unusual like a missing stat, or unplugged/switched off piece of equipment. I always look the system over checking for debris in the blower housing and who knows what else. As far as a missing stat, I always check that the wiring is correct at the unit. Just because a wire is red doesn't mean it's 24v hot. Actually that wire will be whatever you want it to be. Heck, that wire doesn't even know it's red.

Good point!

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

This thread has simply amazed me at the number of folks who would attempt to try and start up an HVAC system with the thermostat missing! Yet, I bet nobody who would wire up a spare thermostat or jumper the wires together would ever think about turning on a water valve to a sink, toilet, or whatever if it was turned off. Ya know, the more I thought about it I bet they would turn every off valve they found in a home.

Simply stated; If the thermostat is missing the system does not work! That is what you need to report....

Well said, Scott. I'm chiming on this one a little bit late, but I too am amazed that anyone would consider operating the HVAC, or any other equipment that had no thermostat, a breaker flipped off, a shut-off valve turned off, etc. Call me crazy, but if it doesn't work, I report it as not working! There is usually a good reason things are turned off. Maybe a leaking pipe past the shut-off valve in the plumbing system...perhaps a short in a wire somewhere inside a wall...defective or dangerous pre-existing conditions that i'm unaware of! Am I going to be responsible for burning down a house because I flipped a breaker back on to check an outlet...NO. A home inspection in TN is still a visual, non-invasive, inspection of readily available and accessible systems and components. The state SOPs also state that a readily openable access panel provided for homeowner inspection. Getting into electrical wiring to check whether or not a unit is operable falls outside that scope. That is stuff better left to the guys with the expertise necessary to be in there! While we're on the subject, naaaaahhh...never mind...I'll start a new thread for that...we kinda got off topic on this one already, and I just added more fodder...

For a friend, I would jump it out. However, I would jump it out at the board so that I can assess the unit, see what's going on and keep anything funky from happening.
For a regular HI, it is highly doubtful I would jump it out. Either way I wouldn't jump it out at the stat. If you do it at the stat you can't see what the unit is doing to know whether there is a problem or you should stop. Wire colors are standard but you never know what's hooked to what for sure. I've seen colors completely screwed up. Always want to check at the board.
Jumping the wrong posts briefly is unlikely to blow the trans, maybe the board fuse. Jumping the wires at the stat location and then walking down to the unit could be long enough to blow the trans but again the board fuse will probably go first.
Having had a few units short out while removing covers, because someone messed with the blower cut-off switch, I keep a pack of fuses in my kit just in case.
Everyone does what they are comfortable, I wouldn't recommend it though.