Thread: New place to dump condensate

Saw this in 2 year old condo I inspected today. Someone ran the condensate drain into the rough in for the radon system.
Got to love this stuff.

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Nice one. Well, it will water down all that nasty radon, so, it's all good, right?

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

Saw this in 2 year old condo I inspected today. Someone ran the condensate drain into the rough in for the radon system.
Got to love this stuff.

Being a bit ignorant about radon systems....How do you know that piece of PVC pipe is part of a radon system?

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

Saw this in 2 year old condo I inspected today. Someone ran the condensate drain into the rough in for the radon system.
Got to love this stuff.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Being a bit ignorant about radon systems....How do you know that piece of PVC pipe is part of a radon system?

Not knowing much myself about radon systems, (thinking out loud) the larger tube is the radon tester the PVC pipe runs into it because it (the tester) goes down to the ground. So would it be safe to say whoever hooked this up knew what they were doing? or I guess I should say they knew it was not the right way it was the easy way

Originally Posted by David Garton

...the larger tube is the radon tester...

Not "tester". Vent.

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Not "tester". Vent.

Got it Thanks

I am sorry. I do not know what I am looking at. Is this a crawlspace with some kind of weird red insulation surrounding something that could be part of a radon system. Is the house buillt upon limelstone. Please tell me what I am looking at.

Originally Posted by Philip

I am sorry. I do not know what I am looking at. Is this a crawlspace with some kind of weird red insulation surrounding something that could be part of a radon system. Is the house buillt upon limelstone. Please tell me what I am looking at.

Looks to me like that is loose fill fiberglass insulation in an attic. But, maybe them folks in furrin parts puts loose fill fiberglass on the ground in a basement.

I always thought radon systems were in the basement/crawlspace area. Don't have much of that radon stuff out left.

This photo is in an attic.
The large pvc pipe is the rough in for a radon mitigation system. The local building dept. requires builders to install a radon mitigation system in homes with a slab or basement. It is to terminate in the attic, and have RADON written on it where visible (of course the builder did not).
OH!, the reason you see drywall there is because this is a condo and thats the wall between units.

Gunnar,
At thirteen years of age I was catching in for the pitcher at batting practise and when my back was turned I heard a crack of the bat and the ball, I turned around, and there went a front tooth. When I came to I spit out a big wad of Mail Pouch which saved probably another half a dozen teeth. I look at the system that is supposed to, by code, take the deadly gas from the basement and bring it into the attic. The systems I have seen dump the air through the basement walls.
I can not wait for Watson, Sr. and Mr. Peck to post the technicalities of the situation. Is not the truth that if your geological area contains no limestone, like the Piedmont and Tidewater of VA, that if you are not sitting on a bedrock of limestone, then you need no Radon protection. And you sure as hell do not try to vent it at least ten feet into the attic.

Jack,

Check out this attempted drain line repair. Someone emailed me this pic.

rick

Rick,
You get all the good ones

Philip,
I have no idea what the first part of your post means.
Radon is a fairly big issue in my part of TN. It's a big enough problem that the building authorities decided to make builders rough in a system.
The system rough in pipe terminates in the attic, so the mitigation contractor can install the fan there and then extend the pipe thru the roof to the outside.
This house happened to be a slab. Basement houses also have the rough in pipe terminate in the attic.

There are some systems here that go out the side of a basement, then extend up the wall. This is usually where they can't find a way to take a pipe from the basement and get it to the attic easily. Or, they are just lazy and take the easy way out. It makes a pretty ugly addition to the side of the house, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

Jack,

Check out this attempted drain line repair. Someone emailed me this pic.

rick

Well... that was... creative.
I'm guessing he had to consume large quantities of adult beverages to have enough cups and to come up with that fix.

Originally Posted by Philip

Gunnar,
At thirteen years of age I was catching in for the pitcher at batting practise and when my back was turned I heard a crack of the bat and the ball, I turned around, and there went a front tooth. When I came to I spit out a big wad of Mail Pouch which saved probably another half a dozen teeth. I look at the system that is supposed to, by code, take the deadly gas from the basement and bring it into the attic. The systems I have seen dump the air through the basement walls.
I can not wait for Watson, Sr. and Mr. Peck to post the technicalities of the situation. Is not the truth that if your geological area contains no limestone, like the Piedmont and Tidewater of VA, that if you are not sitting on a bedrock of limestone, then you need no Radon protection. And you sure as hell do not try to vent it at least ten feet into the attic.

I believe it is decomposing granite that that is the heavy hitter for Radon. Not sure about limestone. No need for Radon testing here or most of Florida. When I was in Mass I never got involved with the Radon thing but that was over 20 years ago.

From everything I have read about Radon I do not see why there is such a fuss. Of course I do not follow it religiously. If folks are concerned about Readon then get it tested. I don't know why every home has to be set up for mitigation. Maybe that has something to do with lobbying by the Radon folks.

Again, excuse my ignorance but I have read a serious amount on the subject and from the articles I have read I just don't get the big scare.

Originally Posted by Philip

... I look at the system that is supposed to, by code, take the deadly gas from the basement and bring it into the attic. The systems I have seen dump the air through the basement walls.

I can not wait for Watson, Sr. and Mr. Peck to post the technicalities of the situation. Is not the truth that if your geological area contains no limestone, like the Piedmont and Tidewater of VA, that if you are not sitting on a bedrock of limestone, then you need no Radon protection. And you sure as hell do not try to vent it at least ten feet into the attic.

No you do not speak "the truth". I'll ignore the sarcasm and speak to the issues. Your descriptions of what and how a mitigation system is and they can be designed to perform properly, also is flawed.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

I believe it is decomposing granite that that is the heavy hitter for Radon. Not sure about limestone. No need for Radon testing here or most of Florida. When I was in Mass I never got involved with the Radon thing but that was over 20 years ago.
From everything I have read about Radon I do not see why there is such a fuss. Of course I do not follow it religiously. If folks are concerned about Readon then get it tested. I don't know why every home has to be set up for mitigation. Maybe that has something to do with lobbying by the Radon folks.
Again, excuse my ignorance but I have read a serious amount on the subject and from the articles I have read I just don't get the big scare.

Your "belief" system I cannot speak to. Perhaps the information presented in a more simplified but scientifically based way might serve to better inform you.

The decay of Uranium is the precursor source of Radon.

Some myths are being repeated on this post string. I suspect the two posters quoted above are confusing publically voiced concerns and discussions about certain building materials and those mined from areas with a higher uranium content adding to concentrations of radon in a home vs. from-the-ground and entering the home sources.

Radon is a radioactive gas. It comes from the natural decay of uranium that is found in nearly all soils. It typically moves up through the ground to the air above and into your home through cracks and other holes in the foundation. Your home traps radon inside, where it can build up. Any home may have a radon problem. This means new and old homes, well-sealed and drafty homes, and homes with or without basements.

Radon from soil gas is the main cause of radon problems. Sometimes radon enters the home through well water (see "Radon in Water" below). In a small number of homes, the building materials can give off radon, too. However, building materials rarely cause radon problems by themselves.

RADON GETS IN THROUGH:

1. Cracks in solid floors
2. Construction joints
3. Cracks in walls
4. Gaps in suspended floors
5. Gaps around service pipes
6. Cavities inside walls
7. The water supply

A Citizen's Guide to Radon | Radon | US EPA

Although the tags for the following appear to go to the same individual web page, or area within, some are different web pages:

Direct link to a list of regularly repeated myths, and the real answers:
A Citizen's Guide to Radon | Radon | US EPA

Direct "clickable" link to a regional contacts list: A Citizen's Guide to Radon | Radon | US EPA

Direct "clickable" link to a Slide-show covering Radon basics, including how Radon enters a home: EPA Slideshow covering radon basics, including how radon enters a home, methods of detection, and techniques of radon gas mitigation

Direct "clickable" link to Map of Radon Zones: EPA Map of Radon Zones | Radon | US EPA

Interesting variances of measured concentrations in "pockets" of individual homes developed overtop of for example deep coal and salt mines, whereby adjacent did not (same construction, vintage, and 75 ft. apart) charting intermediate aquafers, etc.; without testing there is no way to know what the concentrations are in a particular home, or within a particular home pretty much anywhere on the planet.

Lets not confuse "apples and oranges" here. Get the facts, don't assume something you read years ago is still considered accurate, or that you understood, remember and are applying correctly. Repeating myths as facts, or drawing conclusions based on same, isn't helpful.

Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr.

The decay of Uranium is the precursor source of Radon.

Some myths are being repeated on this post string. I suspect two posters are confusing concerns and discussions about certain building materials and those mined from areas with a higher uranium content adding to concentrations of radon in a home vs. from-the-ground and entering the home sources.



A Citizen's Guide to Radon | Radon | US EPA

Although the tags for the following appear to go to the same individual web page, or area within, some are different web pages:

Direct link to a list of regularly repeated myths, and the real answers:
A Citizen's Guide to Radon | Radon | US EPA

Direct "clickable" link to a regional contacts list: A Citizen's Guide to Radon | Radon | US EPA

Direct "clickable" link to a Slide-show covering Radon basics, including how Radon enters a home: EPA Slideshow covering radon basics, including how radon enters a home, methods of detection, and techniques of radon gas mitigation

Direct "clickable" link to Map of Radon Zones: EPA Map of Radon Zones | Radon | US EPA

Interesting variances of measured concentrations in "pockets" of individual homes developed overtop of for example deep coal and salt mines, whereby adjacent did not (same construction, vintage, and 75 ft. apart) charting intermediate aquafers, etc.; without testing there is no way to know what the concentrations are in a particular home, or within a particular home pretty much anywhere on the planet.

Lets not confuse "apples and oranges" here. Get the facts, don't assume something you read years ago is still considered accurate, or that you understood, remember and are applying correctly. Repeating myths as facts, or drawing conclusions based on same, isn't helpful.

It has always been known that higher concentrations of granite there will be a higher concentration of radon. There may be Radon coming from most soils but nearly the amount from high granite areas.

Not confusing facts at all.

As far as not assuming what one read years ago as facts.....Don't confuse what one reads now as facts.

This whole Radon thing has been in dispute not just years ago but now as well. Those are the facts.

Not to dispute your comments or articles but hey, those are the real facts. The studies on Radon and Radon readings and what the effects of Radon are are just as disputed now as they were years ago.

It looks like the large pipe is the top end of an incomplete passive Radon reduction system that some builders are putting in. They run 3" PVC from a sump well up through the house and into the attic (should be capped) or run it through the roof with weather flashing as done with a standard plumbing vent.

If Radon testing in the future indicates mitigation is required, it is easy to turn it into an active system by adding a fan in the attic and properly exhausting above the house. No fans and pipe on the outside. It is something that should be done in all new construction.

In any case - the condensate pipe cannot empty into the large pipe especially by saddle tap.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

It has always been known that higher concentrations of granite there will be a higher concentration of radon. There may be Radon coming from most soils but nearly the amount from high granite areas.

Not confusing facts at all.

As far as not assuming what one read years ago as facts.....Don't confuse what one reads now as facts.

This whole Radon thing has been in dispute not just years ago but now as well. Those are the facts.

Not to dispute your comments or articles but hey, those are the real facts. The studies on Radon and Radon readings and what the effects of Radon are are just as disputed now as they were years ago.

Sigh...

I'm going to work on "excusing" your "ignorance", Ted. You're making it increasingly difficult to do so when you intentionally avoid changing that condition. You obviously didn't take the time to even refer to any of the links, let alone read them on their face, let alone explored the multitude of references refered to therein, before you replied.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

snipped....The studies on Radon and Radon readings and what the effects of Radon are are just as disputed now as they were years ago.

Ted, who disputes and what is disputed? I would be interested in seeing published and reviewed material from any reputable scientific, health, or medical source.

Originally Posted by Stuart Brooks

Ted, who disputes and what is disputed? I would be interested in seeing published and reviewed material from any reputable scientific, health, or medical source.

Like I said about disputes. Just on this board alone there have been countless articles and studies and opinions posted. A little clicking and you will find , more than likely, more than you would want to.

Find anything to do with Radon on this board.....you will find disputes from every profession about readings and health concerns. Matter of fact I do believe you will find more disputes against findings and health concerns as you will find not disputing such...all the way to granite counter tops. No need to re-post, already to much on here and I know you have been around here to know that.

Radon is an inert gas. Inert gas means it does not want to enter into a combination with another element. I understand the Capitol is full of Radon gas, and if it is so deadly how come we have to endure some of these Senators and Congressmen for decades upon decades.

Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr.

Sigh...

I'm going to work on "excusing" your "ignorance", Ted. You're making it increasingly difficult to do so when you intentionally avoid changing that condition. You obviously didn't take the time to even refer to any of the links, let alone read them on their face, let alone explored the multitude of references refered to therein, before you replied.

No need to sigh HG. As I just told Stuart. No need to post disputes. This board has countless threads and posts on such. An easy click away.

As I said HG....Sighing is also ignorance. Because you read certain articles and do not explore the countless other articles and "experts" (God man) just on this board alone as mentioned above.............It holds more disputes than anywhere else. Article after article and expert after expert dispute one another.

Please, do not do the sighing thing. Research this board and I do believe you will stop sighing.

Radon has been disputed from the beginning of time all the way to readings and affects. If you do not know that then will excuse your ignorance of those facts.

I am truly ignorant because I do not deal with Radon every day of my life. I can only tell you of what you should already know. Dispute of Radon invented the word Dispute.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Like I said about disputes. Just on this board alone there have been countless articles and studies and opinions posted. A little clicking and you will find , more than likely, more than you would want to.

Find anything to do with Radon on this board.....you will find disputes from every profession about readings and health concerns. Matter of fact I do believe you will find more disputes against findings and health concerns as you will find not disputing such...all the way to granite counter tops. No need to re-post, already to much on here and I know you have been around here to know that.

Yeah Ted but disputes on this board don't count for much. I realize there is one person who posts here on various environmental issues who pretty much stands alone with his "opinion" on Radon.

I have to agree that whatever the issue there will always be someone on the other side. It's a matter of backing up "opinion" with data and facts. Of course, there are some who will never accept the other side no matter what or how much evidence is produced or not produced.

BTW, for anyone reading, this is intended as a discourse not a Ted Bash.

I know there are people that will dispute the health hazard of radon. Just like there are people that will dispute the health hazards of smoking. However, the way I see it is a whole lot of people (World Health Org, US Surgeon General, the American Red Cross, the Cancer institute, the Canadian Health Ministry etc), that are a whole lot smarter than me all say it is a health hazard. Additionally, I have not heard of a single report in the last ten years that have disputed this point. Here in Maryland there are areas that I have measured over 100 pCu/L. One client's radon test showed 86 pCi/L, the seller overheard the conversation about radon and relayed how his wife of 36 years had passed away from lung cancer and had never smoked a day in her life. He asked me if the radon levels in his house may have been the cause. I, of course, referred him to his doctor for those types of answers. i realize that this is anecdotal evidence but that's good enough for me. the test and mitigation are not that expensive. Most of the Municipalities here in Maryland have adopted the requirement for a passive radon mitigation system to be installed in new construction. The problem is the builders don't understand it nor do most of the code inspectors know what to look for. So the plumber sticks a pipe in the ground, paints "radon: on the side and calls it a mitigation system.

Originally Posted by Dave Burch1

I know there are people that will dispute the health hazard of radon. Just like there are people that will dispute the health hazards of smoking. However, the way I see it is a whole lot of people (World Health Org, US Surgeon General, the American Red Cross, the Cancer institute, the Canadian Health Ministry etc), that are a whole lot smarter than me all say it is a health hazard. Additionally, I have not heard of a single report in the last ten years that have disputed this point. Here in Maryland there are areas that I have measured over 100 pCu/L. One client's radon test showed 86 pCi/L, the seller overheard the conversation about radon and relayed how his wife of 36 years had passed away from lung cancer and had never smoked a day in her life. He asked me if the radon levels in his house may have been the cause. I, of course, referred him to his doctor for those types of answers. i realize that this is anecdotal evidence but that's good enough for me. the test and mitigation are not that expensive. Most of the Municipalities here in Maryland have adopted the requirement for a passive radon mitigation system to be installed in new construction. The problem is the builders don't understand it nor do most of the code inspectors know what to look for. So the plumber sticks a pipe in the ground, paints "radon: on the side and calls it a mitigation system.

That in it self is controversial. That is the kind of outcome I am talking about. You do not know, I do not know and the Doctor that the question would be asked to does not know with out any doubt what so ever that the Radon caused the cancer. Things that happen over such a long period of time cannot always have a determining factor.

As I said, I am by far no expert or the most read person on the subject. I do know that readings and how they are taken and what is to much and at what point will they have an affect over what length of time on who has always been the controversial part of it.

As far as sticking a pipe in the ground and running it into an attic and calling it a mitigation system.....well...need I say more. If that is not controversial I do not know what is.

And then you have folks living in high concentrations all there life and nothing happens to them...but there wife's or husbands pass away....or does it....50 years later....or was it from something else? I could go on for ever but that is my unedumicated point.....Controversy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, it has always been controversial.

The industrial Hygienist that use to come on here????? I think he posted enough points and links to show controversy. Just more to prove a point.

Ted said, "As far as sticking a pipe in the ground and running it into an attic and calling it a mitigation system."
Ted,
This is a "rough in" for a radon mitigation system. They have the pit, and the proper bottom on the pipe, and run it up into the attic, TO BE COMPLETED IF THERE IS RADON FOUND. Its not called a radon system, is called a "rough in".

If high levels of radon are found, the mitigation contractor then installs a fan in the attic, and runs the pipe out thru the roof.

Kind of like the rough in plumbing for a wet bar. Its not going to look like much until they decide to finish the job.

As long as the EPA says there is a health risk with radon, and has protocols, etc, I will continue to test for it. I am not ready to join the "Earth is flat society"

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

Ted said, "As far as sticking a pipe in the ground and running it into an attic and calling it a mitigation system."
Ted,
This is a "rough in" for a radon mitigation system. They have the pit, and the proper bottom on the pipe, and run it up into the attic, TO BE COMPLETED IF THERE IS RADON FOUND. Its not called a radon system, is called a "rough in".

If high levels of radon are found, the mitigation contractor then installs a fan in the attic, and runs the pipe out thru the roof.

Kind of like the rough in plumbing for a wet bar. Its not going to look like much until they decide to finish the job.

As long as the EPA says there is a health risk with radon, and has protocols, etc, I will continue to test for it. I am not ready to join the "Earth is flat society"

Thanks Jack. I do not know of such things because I am not in Radon country and I do not keep up with all of that.

Flat Earth Society??????? The earth is flat? Why wasn't I informed.

By the way I never said that radon was not bad or a was not a health risk. I did say it is and always has been controversial.

Some folks start smoking at twenty and smoke until there death at 95. It does not mean smoking is not bad for you....But, what killed him? Being 95 or smoking ? No, It is not a funny matter at all. I am sure radon has done many in with out a doubt. I believe everyone has triggers in them and certain things in life pull those triggers.

Sorry to rant on so much

Again, thanks for the info. I did not mean at all to get any riled up.

Builders in Kentucky used to be required to install a passive radon mitigation system, (i.e. the pipe had to go through the roof) and provisions for an electrical circuit for a fan had to be made in the attic. Didn't last long.

A little extra cost ($200.00 bucks or so?) to the builder up front to run the pipe and wire through the house while it was under construction (fairly simple to run pipe and wire when it's only framing).

$1500.00 (to the consumer after radon was found) too install a complete radon mitigation system AFTER the house was already complete.

No contest. Consumer lost AGAIN!

Jack, good comparison between rough in radon pipe (not a passive system) and a rough in for a wet bar or basement bathroom. Neither is complete until more work is done.

-

I am a licensed radon tester here in Ohio. I have found it in every home I have tested .Some way below recommended point of mitation required and some as high as 92.The original question was about the small pipe going into radon system. That was wrong. If the system is started it would pull vapor into it and damage the vacum pump. Mr HG Watson Sr you are correct about radon Thank you