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  1. #1
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    Red face Never Ceases To Amaze!

    In this part of the country most air handlers are located in the attic space. It is common to install a return air duct within the Master Bedroom area and one in a common hall. Both may serve one handler or they may be for separate units. By having a separate return in the bedroom an attempt is made to keep the big room and its bath area comfortable by getting plenty of air movement in this more commonly used room. Typically, the return is located IN the bedroom ceiling and the bathroom is left to its own flow in the direction of the bedroom. Each room would have a heat register. There may or may not be a door for the bathroom area. If no door on the bathroom entry there is one on the toilet closet so no comments please

    The photo shows a "professional" design or installation (you choose who to blame) where the large return air grill is located only inches from the heat supply register. Both are within the bathroom area and a door can be closed between the bedroom and bathroom.

    Ya gotta love it!!

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Never Ceases To Amaze!

    Wow, you kind covered it all right there.

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  3. #3
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Never Ceases To Amaze!

    Could that be a "jumper" duct between the bathroom and the bedroom?


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Never Ceases To Amaze!

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    Could that be a "jumper" duct between the bathroom and the bedroom?
    If it's in the bathroom, that would make it a dumper duct.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Never Ceases To Amaze!

    Although pictured, no mention of the presence of the suspended paddle fan was made, which of course is a further problem both with functionality of both systems.

    Additionally, no mention of its proximity to both shower and/or bath units, if any portion of which is within 3' horizontally and/or 8' of flood rim vertically is prohibited.

    Would further suspect correct support & box ratings, as doubful same was originally planned or installed per plan.

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  6. #6

    Default Re: Never Ceases To Amaze!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Knauff View Post
    In this part of the country most air handlers are located in the attic space. It is common to install a return air duct within the Master Bedroom area and one in a common hall. Both may serve one handler or they may be for separate units. By having a separate return in the bedroom an attempt is made to keep the big room and its bath area comfortable by getting plenty of air movement in this more commonly used room. Typically, the return is located IN the bedroom ceiling and the bathroom is left to its own flow in the direction of the bedroom. Each room would have a heat register. There may or may not be a door for the bathroom area. If no door on the bathroom entry there is one on the toilet closet so no comments please

    The photo shows a "professional" design or installation (you choose who to blame) where the large return air grill is located only inches from the heat supply register. Both are within the bathroom area and a door can be closed between the bedroom and bathroom.

    Ya gotta love it!!
    Nice "short cycle" situation. Heat out of register and right back in the return. Sweet setup! Equals no heating or cooling in THAT room.
    There was probably a "designer" involved. They used to drive me nutz when I was installing. Get the system all laid out for good flow and they come along and say "Your not planning on putting that right there are you? That looks terrible! Can't you hide it in the closet or somewhere?"

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Never Ceases To Amaze!

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Although pictured, no mention of the presence of the suspended paddle fan was made, which of course is a further problem both with functionality of both systems.

    Additionally, no mention of its proximity to both shower and/or bath units, if any portion of which is within 3' horizontally and/or 8' of flood rim vertically is prohibited.

    Would further suspect correct support & box ratings, as doubful same was originally planned or installed per plan.
    Great diagrams HG. Nope, no mention was made of the fan because it complied with the regulations. The post was placed in the HVAC section because the heating system was the focus. Still, I wondered how long it would be before someone brought up the fan and we got sidetracked!

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Never Ceases To Amaze!

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    Could that be a "jumper" duct between the bathroom and the bedroom?
    James, I'm not familiar with the term "jumper" duct. Can you elaborate.

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Never Ceases To Amaze!

    A jumper duct is used to connect an area with a return to an aeara without a return. Say you have a bedroom without a return and a return on the hall. In the bedroom cieling is a duct that allows air out hte rom and into the hall. The jump duct does not directly connect to the return but rather to an area with a return.

    Rooms without returns can't be adequately be connected to an area with a return by under cutting a door.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Never Ceases To Amaze!

    So a jumper duct could be as simple as a grill installed through a wall of a room to connect it to the vented area then. Interesting.

    In my area the rule is to just undercut doors. Installing carpeting then pretty much negates that system!

    I have seen pass through grills installed in walls near the ceiling in rooms in colder climates but they were just for better air distribution and over all flow.

    No jumper ducts in the photo. The larger grill holds air filters thus it's a return duct and the smaller one had heat coming out when testing the furnace. Besides, there was only a heat register in the Master Bedroom, nothing else.

    Last edited by Bob Knauff; 02-25-2011 at 08:09 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Never Ceases To Amaze!

    my understanding is that a jump duct goes over the top of the wall thus jumps the wall into the adjacent space. Using flex duct reduces sound transfer.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Never Ceases To Amaze!

    Bob Knauff said "Nope, no mention was made of the fan because it complied with the regulations. The post was placed in the HVAC section because the heating system was the focus. Still, I wondered how long it would be before someone brought up the fan and we got sidetracked!"

    Don't you think the fan when it is on isn't going to affect the airflow? just because it "complies with regulations does not make it a good install. when they made the regulations they didn't think of this would be a common occurance that needed to be address. but when so close to the vents it does affect the systems when on. anything that affects the heating system like that should be something to write up as a design placement defect.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Never Ceases To Amaze!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Hetner View Post
    Bob Knauff said "Nope, no mention was made of the fan because it complied with the regulations. The post was placed in the HVAC section because the heating system was the focus. Still, I wondered how long it would be before someone brought up the fan and we got sidetracked!"

    Don't you think the fan when it is on isn't going to affect the airflow? just because it "complies with regulations does not make it a good install. when they made the regulations they didn't think of this would be a common occurance that needed to be address. but when so close to the vents it does affect the systems when on. anything that affects the heating system like that should be something to write up as a design placement defect.
    A valid point Bill. Any time something interrupts or blocks the flow of conditioned air into a space it's not good for efficiency nor occupant comfort. It's hard to find a house here that does not have a ceiling fan that fits this scenario however. Much like up north where wall mounted heat registers or cold air returns are almost always restricted by furniture being placed in front of them. A person could report them but most likely it would do no good anyway. The fans are not used often enough to write them up as an issue. IMHO.

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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Never Ceases To Amaze!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Knauff View Post
    So a jumper duct could be as simple as a grill installed through a wall of a room to connect it to the vented area then. Interesting.
    I would call that a transfer grill.
    Jumper duct is different, using ducts to bypass the closed door.

    Jim Luttrall
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