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  1. #1
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    Mar 2007
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    Chicago
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    Default Gas shut off valve

    Hello Everybody,

    Looking for thoughts on the following issue based on the 2006 IRC, chapter 24 fuel gas.

    At a fireplace (indoor or outdoor) or at an outdoor fire-pit that is equipped with a natural gas line for the purposes of a log-lighter, would you consider the keyed-log lighter valve (such as a Sioux Chief 952 or 954) as the equipment shut off valve or main burner control as defined in chapter 24?

    Your thoughts and opinions are appreciated. This is not HI related.

    Thanks,
    Corey

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    26,252

    Default Re: Gas shut off valve

    Corey,

    I recall that the gas shut-off valves are 1/4 turn valves - Bob Harper would know more and be better able to address this.

    Also, even though duplicate posts are discouraged, if you posted this under fireplaces (and gas), Bob may see it quicker. You could always post it there and delete this, directing readers to the new post location.

    Bob, you out there?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    1,643

    Default Re: Gas shut off valve

    The key valves you referenced are listed to ANSI Z21.15 so they can serve as the shutoff valve. They are tested and listed to CSA 8 as a flow control for log lighters. Their literature identifies them as intended for controlling the appliance. They are also not tested or approved for pressures higher than 1/2 psi or 14 wci, which means it would have to be disconnected upstream before any pressure testing.

    The code allows the shutoff for decorative gas appliances for use in fireplaces to be remote from the appliance (read-more than 6 feet away). The code does not address shutoffs for fire pits directly so your AHJ would have to run on that. Otherwise on a fire pit, you would need one approved shutoff accessible within 6 feet and some means of control for the appliance if not provided with the appliance.

    Note the requirement for sediment traps is not waived for firepits nor is the need for a ground union-both of which are often omitted on fire pits, which is improper. I don't see where these valves are approved for outdoor use with direct exposure to weather.

    Sioux Chief makes some great products so I'm not bashing them. In fact, I prefer their water hammer arrestors. Ball-type valves tend to be more reliable than ground key stem rising types.

    JP, I saw this post but waited to give others a chance to chime in. I don't want to scare others off from posting. ;-)

    Last edited by Bob Harper; 08-25-2012 at 04:23 PM.
    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
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    Default Re: Gas shut off valve

    Hmmm. I replied last night to his duplicate topic in the "Fireplaces..." forum area attaching the specifications sheet for the specific products inquired about and referenced temperature limitation to 32F.

    Am confused on the reference to "decorative appliance" proximity, since the OP was inquiring about log lighters in an indoor or outdoor fireplace and in an outdoor fire pit??

    I must be overlooking or missing something ... please explain.

    As I'm not following why any mention of a Decorative gas appliance - when a log lighter's primary function is to ignite solid fuel, not the aesthetic effect of the flames while doing so.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 08-25-2012 at 05:25 PM.

  5. #5
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    Cool Re: Gas shut off valve

    HG, I saw your post after I posted here. I was referencing what the IRC addresses about shutoffs which is to say it does NOT specifically address valves for log lighters. CSA 8 requires a valve to control the flow of gas to the appliance and that valve is listed to CSA 8 as part of the loglighter--not as a shutoff. You still need a separate shutoff listed to ANSI z21.15 installed per the code. With firepits, its hard to find a suitable place for a shutoff that meets the code requirement because no one wants to see a hatch or panel withing 6ft of the pit. Since firepits are not specifically addressed by the code, your AHJ could rule it ok to locate an approved shutoff remote from the pit within 50 ft if it is labeled, serves only that pit and is readily accessible. Otherwise, it would have to be within 6ft.

    These same key valves are used all the time as shutoffs for gas logs (read-decorative appliances) in fireplaces, hence my reference. Note that not all key valves are listed to ANSI z21.15 so they would not be an approved shutoff. One way to spot unapproved shutoffs is if they are not 1/4 turn ball valves. If it takes 21 throws of your wrist, it is a ground key stem rising valve which is a 'control' but not a 'shutoff'.

    Another problem with firepits is finding a valve that is rated for the BTU input. While some newer fire pits have a claimed input rating, many are cobbled together and they have no idea what the BTU rating is. I can clock a gas meter to come close but that is beyond the scope of a HI.

    HTH

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Gas shut off valve

    Bob,

    "Gotcha". Thought I might have been having one of those "oh to frequently occuring" senior moments.

    Thank you for the clarifications.

    H.G.


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