Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: heated garage

  1. #1
    Stephen G's Avatar
    Stephen G Guest

    Default heated garage

    Last edited by Stephen G; 12-11-2012 at 06:10 PM.
    Member Benefits1

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: heated garage

    Posting photo files which are named with a property address, relative to a propective real estate transaction, on a forum which ranks high on the various popular internet search engines, especially without consent of the parties, and inclusive with commentary, is most unwise.

    Raymond Wand is far more familiar with the terms "of art" used in the Ontario Courts, but phrases such as tortious interfearance with contract sale, allegations of slandering a property, invasion of privacy, etc. come to mind.

    Unlicensed and/or unregulated doesn't insulate one from the contractural relationship nor the understandings of the consent by the property owner to permit access for the limited purposes of the inspection. Generally this doesn't provide for publication or commentary directly traceable to the actual property address, the owner, nor the prospective owner (buyer/client).

    At the very least, it is unprofessional. As a third party relative to the contracted conditional offer to purchase, there may well be other law, common or otherwise which this may well be in conflict with.

    Disclosing to the general public what was shared relative to a pending transaction, esp. about private, perfectly legal activities, conducted in private, when completely unnecessary and gratutious, is IMHO done only by a cad.

    I STRONGLY recommend you remove such named and identified photo files from your posts, and at a minimum, rename such photo files before (re)uploading them to posts: i.e. Don't care if you call it 123 Anywhere Street, Town it isn't too subtle, in that "neck of the woods" or valley, or along ##, to say the least.

    What your motivation in having done so on more than one topic discussion, and what the motivation and the purpose of the instant post is unclear.

    Was there a question somewhere?

    What difference does it make if a pending purchase is a private sale vs. what?

    Who cares if someone's parent's "smoked" in their garage and didn't place their cars there? That a garage is heated? so what? What's the point?

    Communication of duct work between living space/dwelling and the attached garage space...??? your point or question is/was...???

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 12-13-2012 at 01:04 AM. Reason: Removed identifying information

  3. #3
    Stephen G's Avatar
    Stephen G Guest

    Default Re: heated garage

    crap...how do i delete it


  4. #4
    Stephen G's Avatar
    Stephen G Guest

    Default Re: heated garage

    Thanks for the lesson HG, now if you could delete the address from your post thank you...


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: heated garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen G View Post
    Thanks for the lesson HG, now if you could delete the address from your post thank you...
    Done. Did you rename the "other" photo file on the "other" topic discussion?


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: heated garage

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Posting photo files which are named with a property address, relative to a propective real estate transaction, on a forum which ranks high on the various popular internet search engines, especially without consent of the parties, and inclusive with commentary, is most unwise.

    Raymond Wand is far more familiar with the terms "of art" used in the Ontario Courts, but phrases such as tortious interfearance with contract sale, allegations of slandering a property, invasion of privacy, etc. come to mind.

    Unlicensed and/or unregulated doesn't insulate one from the contractural relationship nor the understandings of the consent by the property owner to permit access for the limited purposes of the inspection. Generally this doesn't provide for publication or commentary directly traceable to the actual property address, the owner, nor the prospective owner (buyer/client).

    At the very least, it is unprofessional. As a third party relative to the contracted conditional offer to purchase, there may well be other law, common or otherwise which this may well be in conflict with.

    Disclosing to the general public what was shared relative to a pending transaction, esp. about private, perfectly legal activities, conducted in private, when completely unnecessary and gratutious, is IMHO done only by a cad.

    I STRONGLY recommend you remove such named and identified photo files from your posts, and at a minimum, rename such photo files before (re)uploading them to posts: i.e. Don't care if you call it 123 Anywhere Street, Town it isn't too subtle, in that "neck of the woods" or valley, or along ##, to say the least.

    What your motivation in having done so on more than one topic discussion, and what the motivation and the purpose of the instant post is unclear.

    Was there a question somewhere?

    What difference does it make if a pending purchase is a private sale vs. what?

    Who cares if someone's parent's "smoked" in their garage and didn't place their cars there? That a garage is heated? so what? What's the point?

    Communication of duct work between living space/dwelling and the attached garage space...??? your point or question is/was...???
    Stephan,

    There was no intent to cause harm by you as it was an honest mistake, nor did your comments as to the smoking create, nor could be construed as a loss of sale potential, or devaluation of the property.

    Further it is not uncommon for listed properties to have their address shown in a real estate listing(s). No foul no harm.

    As to Watsons foray into legalities I am not sure what his motivation is other than his need to be a put down artist and his reference to you as a 'cad' is his ineptness at civility.

    Clearly Watsons long winded lecture(s) is ironic since nobody is certain his name is Watson given his inability to post any profile, other than he is a snow bird who by all appearances like a goose is always crapping and hacking, like the Canada Goose.

    Its too bad Watson feels the need to cull discussion based on his myopic reasonings.

    A lawyer he is not.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: heated garage

    Patterson family felt otherwise.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: heated garage

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Patterson family felt otherwise.
    Stop making assumptions! And stop putting people down for simply making an honest mistake.


  9. #9
    Stephen G's Avatar
    Stephen G Guest

    Default Re: heated garage

    Of course it was a mistake...

    I have a new pic loader that labels the pics with the address as it uploads. I had no idea, until I was so informed.

    I have removed both pics....and both questions were answered. They wont get an encore viewing.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: heated garage

    Further to the supply ducting in the garage its my opinion that the duct work should have an auto damper which closes the duct when the furnace shuts down so that CO could not be pulled back into the home via the duct.

    Or alternatively the ducting should be removed from the garage if cars are parked in it.

    I would be interested to know what others have to say on the matter.


  11. #11
    Stephen G's Avatar
    Stephen G Guest

    Default Re: heated garage

    They are removing the ducts and making the wall to the home gas tight. Also closing up the one in the ceiling....should make the home warmer now that most of the heat isn't lost in the garage...


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: heated garage

    Thanks, thats good to know!


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,252

    Default Re: heated garage

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Patterson family felt otherwise.
    You called them yourself? Wow!

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  14. #14
    James Foy's Avatar
    James Foy Guest

    Default Re: heated garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen G View Post
    Of course it was a mistake...

    I have a new pic loader that labels the pics with the address as it uploads. I had no idea, until I was so informed.

    I have removed both pics....and both questions were answered. They wont get an encore viewing.
    A very good, and free program for editing pictures is Faststone Image Viewer. It does more than view pictures; it can batch rename, edit, install arrows and text. Worth donating to them.
    My $0.02


  15. #15

    Default Re: heated garage

    What about fire rating? Open penetration in a fire rated wall/ceiling of a garage?


    Andrew Constantine
    http://InspectProHomeInspections.com
    Charlotte NC Home Inspector


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    164

    Default Re: heated garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Constantine View Post
    What about fire rating? Open penetration in a fire rated wall/ceiling of a garage?


    Andrew Constantine
    http://InspectProHomeInspections.com
    Charlotte NC Home Inspector
    Hello Andrew,

    The garage of a single family home does not have fire rated walls/ceilings.

    Sincerely,

    Corey


  17. #17
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: heated garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey Friedman View Post
    Hello Andrew,

    The garage of a single family home does not have fire rated walls/ceilings.

    Sincerely,

    Corey
    Clearly any garage attached to the home needs a separation from the home. Such as no clear openings, a 20 minute door, drywall both sides of the walls abutting the garage, no holes in the ceiling so fire cannot spread rapidly to the roof or burn thru the flex duct in a second and instantly burn the rest of the home down. To run through a garage it has to be a sealed metal duct at the least, with no openings and if ir comes through the wall or ceiling it has to have a damper in it that closes off in case of a fire.. The garage can be turned from a sitting/smoking room back to a garage by opening the door and driving the car in.

    That is without getting into all technicalities. No vents to or from the garage should about some it up. No openings though the ceiling or walls unless.............

    etc etc etc etc


  18. #18
    Stephen G's Avatar
    Stephen G Guest

    Default Re: heated garage

    Corey, you should look into that a little more....



    QUOTE=Corey Friedman;215623]Hello Andrew,

    The garage of a single family home does not have fire rated walls/ceilings.

    Sincerely,

    Corey[/QUOTE]


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    191

    Default Re: heated garage

    Corey's technically correct. Garages don't require fire-rated walls or ceilings. They need to have drywall, but it's not a fire-rated assembly (assuming we're talking about the IRC).


  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,252

    Default Re: heated garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Clearly any garage attached to the home needs a separation from the home.
    "Separation" from the home, yes, "fire rated" walls and ceilings, no.

    Such as no clear openings, a 20 minute door,
    A "20 minute door" (i.e., a 20 minute fire-rated door) is not a requirement.

    [quote[drywall both sides of the walls abutting the garage,[/quote]

    Drywall on both sides of the walls abutting the garage is also not a requirement.

    no holes in the ceiling so fire cannot spread rapidly to the roof or burn thru the flex duct in a second and instantly burn the rest of the home down. To run through a garage it has to be a sealed metal duct at the least,
    Again incorrect - the duct is not required to be metal.

    Just a few of the parts of Ted's post which are incorrect - I did not address all items.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  21. #21
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: heated garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    "Separation" from the home, yes, "fire rated" walls and ceilings, no.



    A "20 minute door" (i.e., a 20 minute fire-rated door) is not a requirement.


    Drywall on both sides of the walls abutting the garage is also not a requirement.


    Again incorrect - the duct is not required to be metal.

    Just a few of the parts of Ted's post which are incorrect - I did not address all items.
    [/quote]

    I did not say fire rated.

    What is your take on duct running thru a garage.

    What is your minimum take on a wall between a living room and garage? Minimum of 1/2 drywall each side? Plywood.....just open studds?

    I guess you can have open holes thru the ceiling of the garage or are you counting running a separation wall to the roof and the 4 feet of drywall on the underside of the roof from that separation wall?

    There are lots of technical what ifs.

    Not sure where you live but here a door is basically the equivalent of a 20 minute door. A full 3/8 metal faced insulated , weather stripped etc or a full 3/4 inch wood door weather stripped etc.If your take on a duct running thru a garage from side to side is not metal then what must you think? A flex duct is OK. If the flex duct is not OK by itself then what must take place for the duct entering/running thru a garage? dampers on each side such as the side it enters the home from and then back into the home another damper or a full metal duct from one side to the other.

    Don't just come on and state .....NOPE.

    Besides I said I was not getting into the deeper technical end as in ...........................


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: heated garage

    Since Stephan was the original poster and lives in Ontario, our code (Ontario Building Code) only makes inference to gas proofing, and local municipalities will require details showing method of attachment to house for attached garages and method of gas proofing where the garage is attached. This is part of the building permitting requirements.

    Although the code does not address fireproofing per se, it could be argued that drywalling as part of the gas proofing, will therefore offer some degree of fire resistance. Savvy?

    Thats my take as it applies up here.

    Last edited by Raymond Wand; 12-14-2012 at 05:22 PM.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,252

    Default Re: heated garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    I did not say fire rated.
    Ted,

    I know, I was pointing out that *you* said "separation" (which was correct) versus others who said "fire rated" (which was incorrect) ... calm down, I was pointing out that *you* used the correct terminology.

    Of course, though, your terms went downhill after that ...

    What is your take on duct running thru a garage.
    "metal" *OR* ...

    "Ducts in the garage and ducts penetrating the walls or ceilings separating the dwelling from the garage shall be constructed of a minimum No. 26 gage (0.48 mm) sheet steel or other approved material and shall have no openings into the garage."

    The other approved material in some codes is ductboard.

    Flexible duct? absolutely not.

    What is your minimum take on a wall between a living room and garage? Minimum of 1/2 drywall each side? Plywood.....just open studds?
    The code only requires 1/2" gypsum board on "the garage side". One could use whatever they wanted on the living space side ... sure, MOST people put gypsum board on the living side too, but we are talking about REQUIREMENTS and the REQUIREMENT for the "separation" wall is 1/2" gypsum board "on the garage side".

    I guess you can have open holes thru the ceiling of the garage or are you counting running a separation wall to the roof and the 4 feet of drywall on the underside of the roof from that separation wall?
    Again, Ted, we are talking about code requirements, and the code allows two basic choices: 1/2" gypsum on the walls and ceiling of the garage OR the wall with the 1/2" gypsum on it can indeed run all the way to the underside of the roof sheathing, in which case the garage is not required to have a ceiling.

    BUT ... if the choice is made to install 1/2" gypsum board on the garage ceiling, then, no, holes are not allowed.

    Remember, the code is a minimum, not a best practices guide, or even a good practices guide - minimum.

    There are lots of technical what ifs.
    Yeppers, that is what makes code so much fun to work with and to inspect for.

    Not sure where you live but here a door is basically the equivalent of a 20 minute door.
    So you are now stating something different? You are now stating that the door is "basically equivalent" to a 20 minute door, which is NOT what you said before.

    We have no evidence that the following doors are "basically equivalent" to a 20 minute door, only that the following are accepted by code:
    A full 3/8 metal faced insulated
    or a full 3/4 inch wood door
    Where did you get "full 3/4 inch wood door" from?

    If your take on a duct running thru a garage from side to side is not metal then what must you think? A flex duct is OK. If the flex duct is not OK by itself then what must take place for the duct entering/running thru a garage? dampers on each side such as the side it enters the home from and then back into the home another damper or a full metal duct from one side to the other.
    See comment on ducts above - you are wondering all over with your post.

    Besides I said I was not getting into the deeper technical end as in ...........................
    Then you stated what was required ... either you are NOT "getting into the deeper technical end" ... or you are, you can't say you are not then say what is required (that's "getting into the deeper technical end" stuff).

    I just spent 4 hours in a deposition this morning going over minute technical stuff with the opposing attorney - I like that stuff - nothing wrong with liking that stuff and nothing wrong with not liking that stuff.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  24. #24
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: heated garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Ted,

    I know, I was pointing out that *you* said "separation" (which was correct) versus others who said "fire rated" (which was incorrect) ... calm down, I was pointing out that *you* used the correct terminology.

    Of course, though, your terms went downhill after that ...



    "metal" *OR* ...

    "Ducts in the garage and ducts penetrating the walls or ceilings separating the dwelling from the garage shall be constructed of a minimum No. 26 gage (0.48 mm) sheet steel or other approved material and shall have no openings into the garage."

    The other approved material in some codes is ductboard.

    Flexible duct? absolutely not.



    The code only requires 1/2" gypsum board on "the garage side". One could use whatever they wanted on the living space side ... sure, MOST people put gypsum board on the living side too, but we are talking about REQUIREMENTS and the REQUIREMENT for the "separation" wall is 1/2" gypsum board "on the garage side".



    Again, Ted, we are talking about code requirements, and the code allows two basic choices: 1/2" gypsum on the walls and ceiling of the garage OR the wall with the 1/2" gypsum on it can indeed run all the way to the underside of the roof sheathing, in which case the garage is not required to have a ceiling.

    BUT ... if the choice is made to install 1/2" gypsum board on the garage ceiling, then, no, holes are not allowed.

    Remember, the code is a minimum, not a best practices guide, or even a good practices guide - minimum.



    Yeppers, that is what makes code so much fun to work with and to inspect for.



    So you are now stating something different? You are now stating that the door is "basically equivalent" to a 20 minute door, which is NOT what you said before.

    We have no evidence that the following doors are "basically equivalent" to a 20 minute door, only that the following are accepted by code:




    Where did you get "full 3/4 inch wood door" from?



    See comment on ducts above - you are wondering all over with your post.



    Then you stated what was required ... either you are NOT "getting into the deeper technical end" ... or you are, you can't say you are not then say what is required (that's "getting into the deeper technical end" stuff).

    I just spent 4 hours in a deposition this morning going over minute technical stuff with the opposing attorney - I like that stuff - nothing wrong with liking that stuff and nothing wrong with not liking that stuff.

    Sorry Jerry

    I like stuff as well.

    Nothing wrong with stuff by any means.

    All kinds of stuff like the stuff I kinda already said to everything you said.

    Wandering with the ducts.

    Nope. You can have ducts of other sorts running thru garages but it better have dampers at all entry points to the home and no there cannot be openings in the ducts anyway so See, I like all that stuff as well. I will have to check on the duct board but I am quite sure if it is allowed there would have to be that stuff like dampers at entry points

    Wood door. I meant 1 3/4 inch wood door. I have read in engineers specs a few times that 1 3/4 inch would doors could be used. Hm, I did say 3/4 huh. Anyway


  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,252

    Default Re: heated garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Nope. You can have ducts of other sorts running thru garages but it better have dampers at all entry points to the home
    So, Ted, you are saying that if the ducts are not metal (what gage metal are you referring to, there is a specified minimum gage for metal ducts) then dampers are required ... show me that code section.

    You keep stating things but have not yet provided any back up, yet you complained that other should not do that.

    Wood door. I meant 1 3/4 inch wood door. I have read in engineers specs a few times that 1 3/4 inch would doors could be used. Hm, I did say 3/4 huh. Anyway
    Code does not require a 1-3/4" wood door, only a 1-3/8" solid wood door - is a "solid core" door a "solid wood" door? Seems to me that the particle board material in the "solid core" door has glue and other stuff in it which is not "wood" and which may off-gas and flash fuel a fire.

    I think you need to review the code, Ted, before you state what is required ... or are you just stating your personal preferences? If just your personal preferences, then it is best to not state that stuff "should" be done, only that it is you personal preference that it be done.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  26. #26
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: heated garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    So, Ted, you are saying that if the ducts are not metal (what gage metal are you referring to, there is a specified minimum gage for metal ducts) then dampers are required ... show me that code section.

    You keep stating things but have not yet provided any back up, yet you complained that other should not do that.



    Code does not require a 1-3/4" wood door, only a 1-3/8" solid wood door - is a "solid core" door a "solid wood" door? Seems to me that the particle board material in the "solid core" door has glue and other stuff in it which is not "wood" and which may off-gas and flash fuel a fire.

    I think you need to review the code, Ted, before you state what is required ... or are you just stating your personal preferences? If just your personal preferences, then it is best to not state that stuff "should" be done, only that it is you personal preference that it be done.
    I don know how to answer you Jerry. I answered that 3/4 on my phone when I was looking something up for a client (think 4 things at one time). Yes Jerry 1 3/8. I never said particle board. I did not copy and paste. I don't copy and paste. I read I answer to add fuel for thought not to quote the bible

    Metal duct. No I did not state the guage . Shoot me. Duct bard? Really. I could care less if it is allowed. I has a burn thru time of about nothing. If used one better use dampers as with no burn thru time something better be done. Oh, I know, metal duct, 26 guage. Why the hell would any sane man use ductboard or flex duct. I was mocking.

    Even better I will quote

    ""Ducts in the garage and ducts penetrating the walls or ceilings separating the dwelling from the garage shall be constructed of a minimum No. 26 gage (0.48 mm) sheet steel or other approved material (bunk as far as I am concerned) and shall have no openings into the garage."

    Now, I know that makes you completely happy.

    I will try to tune all my answers to exactness in the future and I do know that will make you happy. By the way the other thread about tankless, I do have some instructions I am trying to locate for you. The amount of these installed on new homes today is countless. I too had questions about them and their installation and delved into it.

    I am a man that cannot sit still for a second, the minute or two answering this kills me because there are countless things I could/should be doing.

    Anywho. You have a good day and say your prayers for me so I will start copying and pasting or just reading and writing to the T......if I have time to do so.

    This forum is a wonderful thing. Lets keep it that way.

    Edit here.

    How about 45 minutes to answer this post as I was talking to a client, sorting pictures, feeding the cat etc etc etc. oh yes talking to a friend etc etc etc.

    About the only thing that relaxes me lately is a good Home Inspection and report. Love my job

    Last edited by Ted Menelly; 12-15-2012 at 11:08 AM.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,252

    Default Re: heated garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    I don know how to answer you Jerry.

    Even better I will quote

    ""Ducts in the garage and ducts penetrating the walls or ceilings separating the dwelling from the garage shall be constructed of a minimum No. 26 gage (0.48 mm) sheet steel or other approved material (bunk as far as I am concerned) and shall have no openings into the garage."
    Ted,

    This says it all, there really is no need for me to keep responding to your posts in this thread: you post the code, then say "(bunk as far as I am concerned)".

    You don't like what the code says, the code rules, not you - nothing else I can say,

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •