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Thread: Boiler Pump

  1. #1
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    Default Boiler Pump

    I tried to chase this down once before, but thought I would give it another shot. Does anyone have an answer, or even a definite opinion, as to whether the cable in the photo is allowed to be installed on a boiler circulation pump. I was told by an electrician that it was required. It seems reasonable, and is what I see 90% of the time. About one a month or so, I see the set up in the photo. I call it out, and haven't been challenged on it yet, but I know that is coming one of these days.

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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    I am going to say: No, that cord and plug set is not allowed.

    This is based on the installation instructions for a pump which looks like that pump: http://s3.pexsupply.com/product_file...12-install.pdf - read under the "Electrical" section on the right of the fist page.

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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    I would have to agree with Jerry.
    From what I see it doesn't even look like romex, looks like cheap extension cord wire, 16 gauge type stuff.
    Your local electric code would probably want at least greenfield or legit romex I would think. Here we use greenfield.
    Beyond that I have to wonder if the wire has sufficient heat rating to work in that application if the wire ends up in contact with supply side pipes

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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Keller View Post
    From what I see it doesn't even look like romex, looks like cheap extension cord wire, 16 gauge type stuff.
    That looks like a 16 gage appliance cord set, but I'm not sure it is.

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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    What am I missing? I don't see a problem with a 14ga full-size ground grounded appliance cord (& cap) set to receptacle for disconnect for a 3-speed single phase 115V 1/8-1/6 hp motor? As long as it is installed properly (relief, 'UL knot', nutted & clamped..what is the issue?

    Obviously one cannot hard-wire via rated disconnect using just cord a listed cord set (cap).

    IIRC the highest UPS size/running amp is below 3A and the highest hp/spd was 1/6 hp. (I didn't fully scrutinize the 80+ pg doc linked to below.

    A disconnect means is required. Its a 3-speed motor (circulation pump) If 1/4 hp or less what's the fuss? Did you check the ratings on the cap? How is this any different than an appliance cord cap set for a 1/8 or 1/4 hp domestic food grinder?

    Check the solitary Authorized distrib to NM for domestic on the website if you have concerns.


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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    What am I missing?
    You are missing that the NEC does not allow that type of flexible cord to be used for that use, nor does the installation instructions allow for that type of flexible cord to be used for that circulation pump.

    You did ask.

    I wish that video did not pop up like it does, looks like I included it in my post - I DID NOT - and looks like others included it in their posts (and now I know that they DID NOT include it in their posts).

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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    It's not a cord and cap. It's hard wired into the boiler control module. No problem on the wire size. I was approaching it from the protection side. A few years back some electrician made a special point of telling me that I missed calling out the fact that the boiler pump was not wired with MC cable. Ever since then I've been trying to find a definitive answer, but haven't. I'll try to contact our mechanical AHJ and see what they say about it.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Robinson View Post
    It's not a cord and cap. It's hard wired into the boiler control module. No problem on the wire size. I was approaching it from the protection side. A few years back some electrician made a special point of telling me that I missed calling out the fact that the boiler pump was not wired with MC cable. Ever since then I've been trying to find a definitive answer, but haven't. I'll try to contact our mechanical AHJ and see what they say about it.
    "It's not a cord and cap. It's hard wired into the boiler control module."

    "Ever since then I've been trying to find a definitive answer, but haven't."

    Definitive answer: Not allowed by the NEC nor by the manufacturer ... nothing is correct about that cord used in that installation, especially with the plug cut off and permanently wired in at both ends.



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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    '08 NEC 400.8(1)


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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kleisch View Post
    '08 NEC 400.8(1)
    That's just one of them, there are others which are more explicit as to why.

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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Robinson View Post
    It's not a cord and cap. It's hard wired into the boiler control module. No problem on the wire size. I was approaching it from the protection side. A few years back some electrician made a special point of telling me that I missed calling out the fact that the boiler pump was not wired with MC cable. Ever since then I've been trying to find a definitive answer, but haven't. I'll try to contact our mechanical AHJ and see what they say about it.
    Its wired from the boiler control module as it should be. Its less than 5 amps and less than 1/4 hp, as it should be. Its not hard wired into a branch circuit. It is as it should be cord wired, minimimum 90C likely 105C 14 ga cord with ground as it should be.IT isn't in a ceiling is exposed nothing is concealed and is as it should be. There is no relays it is a solitary circulation pump. There is no violation.The control module controls the pump. It likely also cycles every month or so during the non-heat calling seasons, to keep the pump "lubricated" for a half-minute or so.MC cable is not required.


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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Its wired from the boiler control module as it should be. Its less than 5 amps and less than 1/4 hp, as it should be. Its not hard wired into a branch circuit. It is as it should be cord wired, minimimum 90C likely 105C 14 ga cord with ground as it should be.IT isn't in a ceiling is exposed nothing is concealed and is as it should be. There is no relays it is a solitary circulation pump. There is no violation.The control module controls the pump. It likely also cycles every month or so during the non-heat calling seasons, to keep the pump "lubricated" for a half-minute or so.MC cable is not required.
    Wow H. G. !!

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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Its wired from the boiler control module as it should be.
    .
    .
    There is no violation.
    Start with that appliance cord - they are typically available to the end user in one of two ways: as a cord and plug with a pig-tail on the other end, or as a cord and plug set with the cord cap (receptacle) on the other end - cutting off either of the plug or the cord cap makes the use and installation of the flexible appliance cord not in accordance with its listing and labeling (that is a code violation of 110.3(B) ).

    Next would be the manufacture's installation instructions which specifies "Both the power and grounding wires must be suitable for at least 194F (90C)", and that SPT-3 flexible cord is available with two temperature ratings: 60C or 105C. Most manufacturers have the most choices with 60C rated insulation, a select few have mostly 105C rated insulation. MOST that I have found have 60C, which does not meed the requirements stated in the installation instructions. Using 60C rated insulation would also be a violation of 110.3(B).

    Then go to the NEC and check the allowed uses of SPT-3 flexible cord - that use is not one of them (two more NEC code violations there).

    Then go to the NEC and flexible cords and permitted and non-permitted uses, that are additional code violations there as it is a non-permitted use.

    The rating of the flexible cord and the current through it are almost of no consequence because that flexible cord is not permitted to be used for that use.

    Additionally, the installation instructions state "Electrical Figure 3A Recommended Terminal Box Orientation All electrical work should be performed by a qualified electrician in accordance with the latest edition of the National Electrical Code, local codes and regulations."
    - Note that the installation instructions state "in accordance with the latest edition of the National Electrical Code", then continues with "local codes and regulations" - the most restrictive of which would take precedence.

    There are too many code violations there to go through and list them all here, at least by me, not worth the time to do so, especially when you are only concerned with 'the current flow' and not the installation or use of the flexible cord itself.

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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Start with that appliance cord - they are typically available to the end user in one of two ways: as a cord and plug with a pig-tail on the other end, or as a cord and plug set with the cord cap (receptacle) on the other end - cutting off either of the plug or the cord cap makes the use and installation of the flexible appliance cord not in accordance with its listing and labeling (that is a code violation of 110.3(B) ).

    Next would be the manufacture's installation instructions which specifies "Both the power and grounding wires must be suitable for at least 194F (90C)", and that SPT-3 flexible cord is available with two temperature ratings: 60C or 105C. Most manufacturers have the most choices with 60C rated insulation, a select few have mostly 105C rated insulation. MOST that I have found have 60C, which does not meed the requirements stated in the installation instructions. Using 60C rated insulation would also be a violation of 110.3(B).

    Then go to the NEC and check the allowed uses of SPT-3 flexible cord - that use is not one of them (two more NEC code violations there).

    Then go to the NEC and flexible cords and permitted and non-permitted uses, that are additional code violations there as it is a non-permitted use.

    The rating of the flexible cord and the current through it are almost of no consequence because that flexible cord is not permitted to be used for that use.

    Additionally, the installation instructions state "Electrical Figure 3A Recommended Terminal Box Orientation All electrical work should be performed by a qualified electrician in accordance with the latest edition of the National Electrical Code, local codes and regulations."
    - Note that the installation instructions state "in accordance with the latest edition of the National Electrical Code", then continues with "local codes and regulations" - the most restrictive of which would take precedence.

    There are too many code violations there to go through and list them all here, at least by me, not worth the time to do so, especially when you are only concerned with 'the current flow' and not the installation or use of the flexible cord itself.
    B.S.

    The 6-15 ft. length of 14 Ga. cord that comes with the boiler and/or boiler control module (if free standing or replacement install kit) is used for this purpose, just as the 18 Ga. cord supplied for the thermostat is used for THAT purpose. Some Mfg's even pre-wire the cord from the boiler control module, requiring the installer to disconnect same or interim install if employing multiple zone pumps/zone valves/relays, or a timer control.

    The pumps themselves can be ordered with or without a cord set pre-installed as well.

    The pump control and supply wiring pictured and described by the OP is required to be flexible cord.

    Nothing present suggests it is other than 90C plus rating/insulation. In fact it is most likely 105C.

    It is NOT part of the branch circuit it is supplied & controlled by the boiler control module (OP said so) - it is part of the control system for the boiler system. It must remain flexible for maintenance, service, and vibration, It is disconnected for service at the same point the boiler system is before the boiler control module.


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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Watson ... WOW!!! DID YOU EVEN GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE PHOTO IN QUESTION?

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    B.S.

    The 6-15 ft. length of 14 Ga. cord that comes with the boiler and/or boiler control module (if free standing or replacement install kit) is used for this purpose, just as the 18 Ga. cord supplied for the thermostat is used for THAT purpose. Some Mfg's even pre-wire the cord from the boiler control module, requiring the installer to disconnect same or interim install if employing multiple zone pumps/zone valves/relays, or a timer control.
    Nothing in that photo looks like it is anything other than a separate circulation pump, separate cord, and separate boiler.

    Watson, your posts of late have r-e-a-l-l-y been s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g even your standard for attempts of trying to justify your way-out-in-left-field replies ... maybe you got complacent in your old age while I was gone from here, not sure what your problem is, but there is no doubt that you do have a problem.

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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    I squinted hard at the picture and went to the Grundfos web site to find the pump Circulation Pump, Heating System, Cooling System: UP | Grundfos

    Small pumps such as their UP 15-42 B5/B7 model have a note on the Technical Data page "Note: LC/TLC Models have 6 ft (1.8 m), 3-prong power cord."

    My squinting did not supply the model number or the LC marking, so I can't say for sure if the one in the photo came with a cord.


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    Default Re: Boiler Pump


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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Attfield View Post
    I squinted hard at the picture and went to the Grundfos web site to find the pump Circulation Pump, Heating System, Cooling System: UP | Grundfos

    Small pumps such as their UP 15-42 B5/B7 model have a note on the Technical Data page "Note: LC/TLC Models have 6 ft (1.8 m), 3-prong power cord."

    My squinting did not supply the model number or the LC marking, so I can't say for sure if the one in the photo came with a cord.
    Go here ( http://ca.grundfos.com/content/gca/e...01_0311_UP.pdf ) , pages 26, 27, 28 - see anything different with those power cords?

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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Same thing with the power cord, go to pages 23, 24, 25, 26 etc and look at the difference in the power cords.

    Remember, the discussion is about the one with the power cord as shown in the photo in the original post.

    Being available with a power cord does not in any way indicate that the one in the photo in the original post came with that power cord. Also, with the ones with the power cord, note how the cord is installed (the closest view will be barely shown on the top of Fig 8, page 28, here: http://ca.grundfos.com/content/gca/e...01_0311_UP.pdf where you can see the molded strain relief at the end of the cord where it is attached to the pump.

    Actually, Fig 9 on page 26 here http://www.alpinehomeair.com/related...al%20Guide.pdf shows the cord better.

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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Its my belief the power cord had been changed out in the photo Jim posted, and the white power cord is not the cord that is supplied by Grundfos.


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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    An example of a residential gas fired boiler with boiler control module wiring/cable pre-supplied (Factory-Provided wire connectors, some units have pigtail leads for connection to supply too, this one came with control circuit wiring for the circulator for when the unit is installed, and some units, such as this; however, are designed only for connection to system other than metal-clad cable or conduit; a proprietary (molex) connector which connects to the control module, which is then wired into the circulation pump at contacts using UL knot, with a factory pre-set default to control) which is common 90C/105C 14 awg, for 600V circuit or less 5 A or less, 1/6 hp or less., it is obviously 150V or less, and is OC protected front of the boiler itself at 15A, and being residential limited by the POCO at 120VAC +/-.

    Neither Ch. 3, 4, nor 725 applies its part of the mfg's boiler wiring safety control circuitry, specifically supported by the system configuration, not concealed, not upon the building surfaces nor finishes. IIRC several mfg's provide 600V instrument tray cable/harness cord unarmored pvc sheathed and listed to ch. 3 & Ch. 7 (725 class 1 non-power limited) to the hvac/hydronic mfg's/trade for just this purpose. 725 does not apply to integral parts of a device or appliance - just as it doesn't apply to the tsf inside a Motor Controller. 725 allows flex cord, even allows fixture wire.

    If other site configured/built relays, etc. from the boiler's control module then would be 725 Class 1, non-power-limited, remote control (of the circulation pump) meeting limitations, and is still allowed, this is neither tapped off the boiler supply circuit nor is it powered under separate circuit - it is being powered via the boiler control module which is a safety interlock proving required control and covered under the standard for the boiler.


    Example: Lennox (file attached, source link is: http://www.lennox.com/pdfs/installat...WB8-IE_IOM.pdf )


    See page 16:

    "If any of the original wire as supplied with this appliance must be replaced, it must be replaced with type 105C thermoplastic wire or its equivalent"

    "Circulator harness is factory wired to contol module. Connect harness to circulator in field. See Figure 9."


    See page 18, Figure 10 for control module schematic

    See page 27, A.2:

    "Circulator harness to circulator. Harness comes plugged into module with Molex (R) plug."


    The referred to permitted "cord" usage in 725.27 does not necessarily equate to a "plug"/cord cap which fits into a branch circuit receptacle outlet, either.








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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    An example of a residential gas fired boiler with boiler control module wiring/cable pre-supplied (Factory-Provided wire connectors, some units have pigtail leads for connection to supply too, this one came with control circuit wiring for the circulator for when the unit is installed, and some units, such as this; however, are designed only for connection to system other than metal-clad cable or conduit; a proprietary (molex) connector which connects to the control module, which is then wired into the circulation pump at contacts using UL knot, with a factory pre-set default to control) which is common 90C/105C 14 awg, for 600V circuit or less 5 A or less, 1/6 hp or less., it is obviously 150V or less, and is OC protected front of the boiler itself at 15A, and being residential limited by the POCO at 120VAC +/-.
    Allow me to make sure the clarity of your post is clear:
    - You are saying, or at the very least, implying, that the circulation pump in the photo in the original post which has the flexible cord under discussion and the unit in the link you provided are somehow related in that both are/have factory assembled circulation pumps?

    Really?

    You are so far out on that limb you are on that you need to look where you are cutting through the limb ... it would be much safer for you to be on the side of the saw cut that the tree trunk is on rather than on the side toward the end of the branches coming off that limb.

    Watson, I must say that, from recent memory, you have crawled out on a limb farther than ever before in your attempts to try to justify what you are saying.

    This entire thread (except, apparently, your posts) is based on the flexible cord to the circulation pump on the boiler shown in the photo in the original post ... while your post continue to get farther and farther from the reality of the topic in the thread ...

    Not to worry, though, Watson, I have set up some rows of lawn chairs, brought in some snacks and chilled refreshments, and the people are mostly seated and watching your show - oh, I've placed a trampoline below where you are so that you will bounce instead of hitting the ground hard and breaking something (other than your ego, which we will be watching fly off as you bounce around on the trampoline after you fall off the limb you are out on.

    The bets are running 2:1 that the skinny branch you are on breaks off before you finish sawing through the limb out on.

    Would someone pass the popcorn, please. Thank you. Live entertainment is so much better than watching the rerun on the TV news later.

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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    No PECK.I'm saying and have said that the circulation pump did not come with a power/control cord.I'm saying that if the boiler control module is OEM, it (the boiler) likely came complete from the manufacturer with control-module-to-circulator-pump wiring .The pictured pump is not powered by an independant receptacle outlet. It doesn't need to be.It is either integral wiring of the boiler appliance for which the NEC does not apply (and this is common when local rule doesn't prohibit the module from being directly upon the boiler) or that NEC Article 725 for non-power limited Class 1 remote control applies. Both allow cord or fixture wiring. The pictured control wiring does not run along a building surface is within the limitations of the permissive allowances found either in the boiler listing and/or the NEC.Less than 600V Equal to or less than 150V, equal to or less than 5 amps, equal to or less than 1/6 hp. Directly powered via remote control wiring FROM the boiler control module rated at 90C or better (in this case 105C) 14 awg, no intercepting relays, nor a tap. Non-power livimited remote control. Nothing in the OP's post indicates he removed the cover for the boiler control module. The pictured pump was not equipped with a supply cord by the factory.Can't understand why YOU can't grasp this solitary circulation pump is powered and supplied FROM the boiler control module (of the boiler), NOT from a branch circuit. No issue. Get off your limb.


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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    No WATSON ... YOU SAID:
    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    .
    .
    There is no violation.
    .
    .
    WATSON ... there are SO MANY violations in the photo in the original post that it would take to much time to list them, even so I have pointed out some of the applicable violations.

    WE ... ARE NOT ... talking about what COULD BE provided by some manufacturer at some time or what some manufacturer may or may not offer ... WE ... ARE TALKING ABOUT THE circulation pump in the original post.

    WATSON - you need to first and foremost CONCENTRATE on the discussion at hand, then you need to THINK about what is in the photo relative to the discussion at hand and THINK about what is shown, then THINK some more BEFORE POSTING OFF ON SOME NON_APPLICABLE TANGENT.

    WATSON - CONCENTRATE - THINK ... then post if you must. (sigh)

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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Robinson View Post
    I tried to chase this down once before, but thought I would give it another shot. Does anyone have an answer, or even a definite opinion, as to whether the cable in the photo is allowed to be installed on a boiler circulation pump. I was told by an electrician that it was required. It seems reasonable, and is what I see 90% of the time. About one a month or so, I see the set up in the photo. I call it out, and haven't been challenged on it yet, but I know that is coming one of these days.
    Don't think so.
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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Not power cord wiring, its remote control field wiring from boiler control module, integral to the boiler and its boiler control module.725 Class 1 non-power-limited remote control also allows the use of flexible cords and fixture wiring for same.The appliance connector or CSST in the background as well as the "black iron" gas piping suggests the boiler itself is fuel fired and not electic (therefore suggestive that the supplying circuit TO THE BOILER control is 120VAC and not 208 nor 240 VAC, and is likely OC at 15A.


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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    WATSON,

    You've now gone in circles as well as out on that limb - in previous posts you stated 725 does not apply, but you are now stating that 725 allows for this.

    I follow what you are saying, and where you think you are going, but, as you said, just not applicable.

    (sigh)

    Once again, I will let you keep meandering around trying to justify what you have said in previous posts and what you have said in more recent posts, and will likely try to say in future posts ... a word of caution, though, before you go meandering all over the place - do go there drunk, you might hurt someone, even yourself ... wouldn't want that, would we?

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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Ive said IF boiler mfg supplied or kit is allowed, NEC allows.I've said IF 725 class 1 non-power limited applies, NEC allows.The OP has made it clear the source of this cable/cord wiring.The picture speaks for itself.You CANNOT declare a violation without your unsupported leaps of facts not in evidence.There are hosts of cords and cables which are produced and supplied to the trade which are multiply rated.You have no leg to stand on.As pictured and described by the OP you cannot proclaim a violation where one does not exist without your ASSUMPTIONS which are unsupported and in conflict with the statements by the OP and what is evidenced in the photo. You have made WILD assumptions and declarred them as fact which are unsupportted by the information provided by the OP and are in conflict with the Listing Standards and the NEC."unless permitted elsewhere" and it is.Done with this and you PECK. You continually SINK to lows which are childish, disruptive, non-professional, and lame.It is no wonder so many left long before your imposed hiatus.Shame you ALWAYS resort to ad hominum, especially when your caught making up "Jerry's law" and fictionalize false unsupported, unattributed staatements by invented others to justify yourself.


  29. #29
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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Robinson View Post
    It's not a cord and cap. It's hard wired into the boiler control module. No problem on the wire size. I was approaching it from the protection side. A few years back some electrician made a special point of telling me that I missed calling out the fact that the boiler pump was not wired with MC cable. Ever since then I've been trying to find a definitive answer, but haven't. I'll try to contact our mechanical AHJ and see what they say about it.
    OP said so yet Peck insists its 16 cord. Not a power cord its remote control wiring, OP said so, yet Peck continues to dispute.
    Nothing pictured or described inicates anything is amiss regarding ratings temp or voltage regarding the field installed control wiring.

    Its supported 6 ft and within confines of the boiler system area exposed and not concealed. Nothing should be in the boiler system area nor the distribution/circulation pipes area stored or otherwise foreign to the system: therefore not subject to damage. It all shuts down when the boiler disconnect is open.


  30. #30
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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Start with that appliance cord - they are typically available to the end user in one of two ways: as a cord and plug with a pig-tail on the other end, or as a cord and plug set with the cord cap (receptacle) on the other end .
    Well there's your first of many mistakes. A cord cap is not a "receptacle". A bladed "plug" is one type of cord cap. The other "end" of a finished "extension cord" (which is not the subject of this post) is called a "connector".

    You have not listed a single valid evidenced observation nor violation.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 11-18-2013 at 12:49 PM.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    I have sent a message off to Grundfos and provided the link to this thread as I could not post the picture in their contact info asking if the power cord is manufacturer supplied and/or acceptable.

    Hopefully they can provide an answer.


  32. #32
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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Wrong resource Raymond Wand, The pictured wiring was NOT supplied by/with the pump.

    Its the packged boiler mfg.; or if non integral OEM boiler control module: the control module mfgr's instructions which apply.

    The pump mfg only requires 90C insulation full size ground and 14 awg cu. to control and/or supply the pump when field wired, otherwise anything permitted /required by the integrated system listing, the NEC and/or local rule if more stringent.


  33. #33
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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Wrong resource Raymond Wand, The pictured wiring was NOT supplied by/with the pump.
    I didn't say it was in my query of Grundfos. You can't read, and you should abstain from trying to imply otherwise is so often the case with you.

    I will accept the reply from Grundfos, and in the meantime I believe Jerry (any day) over that of anything you say in this forum.

    End of the discussion.


  34. #34
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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    I didn't say it was in my query of Grundfos. You can't read, and you should abstain from trying to imply otherwise is so often the case with you.

    I will accept the reply from Grundfos, and in the meantime I believe Jerry (any day) over that of anything you say in this forum.

    End of the discussion.
    Grundfos is merely the mfg of the circulation pump. These are not factory supplied with from-the-controler wiring.

    This is CONTROL CIRCUIT wiring not power circuit/branch circuit wiring.

    Most package boilers come with a combination aquastat/circulator relay control, 120 V is brought into the control to terminals L1 and L2. The thermostat is brought to terminals T1 and T2, the circulator is connected to terminals C1 and C2, and terminals B1 and B2 power the gas valve.

    power IN to boiler/integrated boiler control module - terminals C1 and C2 and GND from boiler control module TO the Grundfos UPS circulation pump's C1, C2 and GND.

    I doubt Jerry's even seen a fuel-fired packaged boiler single circulator system in the first place since he was a snot-knosed kid grunting/scabing work as a teen.





  35. #35
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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Interesting thread albeit a bit hostile.

    Honestly I am not an electrical code junkie, I know how to size the pump but the wiring is done by "others". In my experience with these little systems the work in these photos have been the norm.


    smaller size 01.jpgsmaller size 02.jpg


  36. #36
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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    BTW I never did hear back from Grundfos as per my inquiry and the photo I had sent. So much for customer service.


  37. #37
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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    What am I missing? I don't see a problem with a 14ga full-size ground grounded appliance cord (& cap) set to receptacle for disconnect for a 3-speed single phase 115V 1/8-1/6 hp motor? As long as it is installed properly (relief, 'UL knot', nutted & clamped..what is the issue?

    Obviously one cannot hard-wire via rated disconnect using just cord a listed cord set (cap).

    IIRC the highest UPS size/running amp is below 3A and the highest hp/spd was 1/6 hp. (I didn't fully scrutinize the 80+ pg doc linked to below.

    A disconnect means is required. Its a 3-speed motor (circulation pump) If 1/4 hp or less what's the fuss? Did you check the ratings on the cap? How is this any different than an appliance cord cap set for a 1/8 or 1/4 hp domestic food grinder?

    Check the solitary Authorized distrib to NM for domestic on the website if you have concerns.
    Seem the instructions that was posted stated the wire needs to be rated for at least 194C zip cord is only rated at 105 so there is a problem using zip cord. Although you are correct that if you attach a plug to it and if it met the correct temperature rating then it would have been ok. I dislike how quickly zip cord dries out and cracks if flexed and since a pump like that should give you many years of service I personally won't use zip cord even if it met code.


  38. #38
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    Default Re: Boiler Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by timothy leblanc View Post
    Seem the instructions that was posted stated the wire needs to be rated for at least 194C zip cord is only rated at 105 so there is a problem using zip cord. Although you are correct that if you attach a plug to it and if it met the correct temperature rating then it would have been ok. I dislike how quickly zip cord dries out and cracks if flexed and since a pump like that should give you many years of service I personally won't use zip cord even if it met code.
    What is pictured is NOT mere "zip cord" from the boiler control module to the circulation pump, Ch. 4 NEC does not apply.


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