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  1. #1
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    Default Flexible gas line too long?

    Hey guys! This is two different pictures of two different houses. In both houses the yellow flexible gas line is over 6 feet. Now I know in school they taught us that these yellow flexible gas lines should be going through walls and also shouldn't be longer than six feet. So my question is is this something you would normally write up in your report or is it nothing serious just an old rule or something? Thanks ahead of time guys !!!!!

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    About the only not wrong in those photos is the length! or should that be

    You are thinking of flexible gas connectors (limited to 6 feet in length, I think they come in 3 foot and 6 foot lengths), not flexible gas piping (which comes in long rolls, and is allowed to run as long as the design works out that it can for the gas system design.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    About the only not wrong in those photos is the length! or should that be

    You are thinking of flexible gas connectors (limited to 6 feet in length, I think they come in 3 foot and 6 foot lengths), not flexible gas piping (which comes in long rolls, and is allowed to run as long as the design works out that it can for the gas system design.
    Lol well please.... help the young guy out what else is wrong here ?!


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    That is CSST (or similar). Used instead of hard pipe. Needs support. Search for GasTite or CSST and download the manual.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Wow! Check out pic #2. The bonding clamp is directly on the tubing. Totally wrong and hazardous. That entire installation of CSST is suspect after seeing that.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    - Download the CSST installation manual
    - Read it
    - Reference page numbers in your report where it shows the installation is non-compliant with installation instructions
    - Attach the manual to your report
    You really only need to read the manual a couple times, make notes and then you'll have the typical defect info for future reports. It's always the same few issues.

    www.aic-chicago.com
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    wow!! Thanks guys!!


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Scheuerer View Post
    Lol well please.... help the young guy out what else is wrong here ?!
    Just got back to my office ... and I see others have taken care of your request.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Just got back to my office ... and I see others have taken care of your request.

    Thanks for your help anyway Jerry!!


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Also, Google "CSST tubing lightening" and let your client know the risks.
    Big law suits out there!

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Is that aluminum bonding wire to clamp? Or is it copper. Not sure if the flash from camera makes the wire look silver.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Is that aluminum bonding wire to clamp? Or is it copper. Not sure if the flash from camera makes the wire look silver.

    It's definitely aluminum binding wire sir


  13. #13
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    Pleasant Hill, Iowa
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Aaron, these guys are all over this. The CSST gas line is to be grounded/bonded in front of the first CSST joint, not only is the bonding clamp not suppose to be on the stainless steel tubing, it needs to be on the black iron pipe out at the gas meter in front of the first joint where ever that is located. Also the yellow sheath is not to be cut back to expose the tubing. The sheath needs to be inside the connector. Not very good workmanship and wrong bonding location!

    Dan Hagman ACI
    ProSite Home Inspections
    Des Moines, Iowa

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Aaron is located here in NJ; this is what I attached to every report where there's no bonding.

    Attached Files Attached Files
    Darren www.aboutthehouseinspections.com
    'Whizzing & pasting & pooting through the day (Ronnie helping Kenny helping burn his poots away!) (FZ)

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    "What else is wrong here?"

    Can we criticize the awful HVAC supply header?

    What of an attic wall with no insulation? And can we define "attic wall" and demand R30, since there is plenty of space to build out the wall?

    Before typing this reply, I added to 2010 dead conversation, training to become an energy auditor.

    At least in Portland, Oregon, home inspectors are getting into enforcement of home energy efficiency. Let's do it right.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Two things:
    Bonding clamp cannot be on CSST but must be on a hard pipe section such as the manifold.
    And only two "valleys" are allowed to be exposed past the connector when the sheathing is stripped back.

    And CSST can pass through a wall but cannot disappear in a wall or floor chase, etc., and emerge somewhere else. It must be completely visible.

    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lon Henderson View Post
    And CSST can pass through a wall but cannot disappear in a wall or floor chase, etc., and emerge somewhere else. It must be completely visible.
    I'm not from Missouri, but ... show me (where that is stated).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Guess I have a couple questions on this too, don't see that they have been addressed in this post yet?? I understand the bonding issue and the sheathing cut back issue, but what about sizing and drip legs?? Which one of these lines is feeding the manifold? It appears they are all pretty equal in size which would mean no one sized the supply portion to accommodate the number of runs coming off the manifold?? It would seem that if one appliance is running and others come on your going to short change the weakest one of gas? Is that an issue or not?? Also the photo of the furnace does not have a drip leg installed on the solid pipe just before entry to the box. Around here we get about 75% of contractors that do install legs and about 25% that would rather spend 3 days and a lunch to argue whether they "really" do anything or not! Just curious on thoughts from other areas.

    Thanks


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Hartshorn View Post
    Guess I have a couple questions on this too, don't see that they have been addressed in this post yet?? I understand the bonding issue and the sheathing cut back issue, but what about sizing and drip legs??
    First, you are referring to sediment traps, not drip legs, correct? If so, the correct terminology stops many misunderstandings, and many field disputes when a contractor says that a drip leg is not required and an inspector say a drip leg is required (contractor would likely be correct) ... however, if the inspector had said sediment trap then the contractor would be incorrect).

    Which one of these lines is feeding the manifold?
    Likely the one on the left being crushed by the bonding clamp.

    You would need to review the gas design drawing to know the answer to your question, or maybe be able to see which goes back toward the supply and which continues on toward appliances.

    It appears they are all pretty equal in size which would mean no one sized the supply portion to accommodate the number of runs coming off the manifold??
    You would need to review the gas design drawing to know that.

    It would seem that if one appliance is running and others come on your going to short change the weakest one of gas? Is that an issue or not??
    Depends, you would need to review the design drawing and all of the appliances.

    Also the photo of the furnace does not have a drip leg installed on the solid pipe just before entry to the box. Around here we get about 75% of contractors that do install legs and about 25% that would rather spend 3 days and a lunch to argue whether they "really" do anything or not! Just curious on thoughts from other areas.
    I see what looks to be a tee, with a short nipple coming out the bottom with a cap on it - that would be the sediment trap - look close and I think you will see it.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Would a bond jumper strap be allowable in NFPA 54 Sec 7.13.?

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    I see that little sediment nipple on the furnace. I thought the UPC 1212.7 required it to be a 3" nipple.
    How about protecting that CSST at the wall where it is next to the sheetrock behind the ROMEX. That's where I want to drive a nail!!

    Robert,
    I don't understand what a bonding jumper would jump to.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Burnett View Post
    I see that little sediment nipple on the furnace. I thought the UPC 1212.7 required it to be a 3" nipple.
    How about protecting that CSST at the wall where it is next to the sheetrock behind the ROMEX. That's where I want to drive a nail!!

    Robert,
    I don't understand what a bonding jumper would jump to.
    Sorry Gary. I was using my tablet on the road and the images are small. I did not see that the manifold is not connected to a gas pipe. Poor installations.
    Disregard my comments.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Flexible gas line too long?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Burnett View Post
    I see that little sediment nipple on the furnace. I thought the UPC 1212.7 required it to be a 3" nipple.
    How about protecting that CSST at the wall where it is next to the sheetrock behind the ROMEX. That's where I want to drive a nail!!
    All up to speed.
    Good call on the flex pipe proximity to drywall.
    The sediment nipple call is close. How long are pipe caps fittings?
    Not being there does have its disadvantages.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

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