Thread: Gas pipe beneath door threshold...

Is this wrong? Thanks....

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Is this wrong?

Not 'till they use the handtruck

That's funny... that's the exact scenario I used.

I had to ask because all of the hvac stuff was recently put in and permitted. I'm not sure how this gets 'passed' by the city... This was quite a ways out of town and I get the feeling things are a bit different.... as in bottles of scotch in return for a permit.

I believe it is wrong. Gas pipe installed outdoors must be protected against physical damage. See IRC 2003 G2415.

Bruce Barker
Dream Home Consultants

Would that gas line be considered outdoors if it is within the garage?

I could see that it may be a possible trip hazard.

rick

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but ... that cat's a trip hazard, it's gotta go.

Oh ... you're not referring to the cat ...

Hey, if you can have a drawer in the riser, what to heck is wrong with a little old gas line? Ask Aaron, he will likely give you the thumbs up on that.

Me, the three risers are not the same height, not even close (the center riser is much higher). The tread depth might be, can't tell for sure from the photo.

That door opens over an interior stair and requires a landing.

Also, that door is a screen door and, when the main door is open, that screen door will not provide the required separation between the garage and the house.

And, finally, you don't want anything on the riser (this includes, but is not limited to, that gas line) which projects out into the tread, that's why many risers slope backward, and why there are nosings on most other treads which project out approximately 1" from the riser.

Running the gas line up and over the door only solves one of those problems.

If this is not a code violation it should be
Other questions I have are
Is the ignition source at least 18” above floor?
Shouldn’t there be a protection from impact post installed around the
furnace?
Clearance to combustibles includes the door swing, door stops and limits cannot be used
Should there be more pipe supports?

Jerry
I don't understand what you are saying, would you explane?

"That door opens over an interior stair and requires a landing."
Where is the interior stair you refer to?

"Also, that door is a screen door and, when the main door is open, that screen door will not provide the required separation between the garage and the house."
It sounds like you are saying it would have the required seperation when the main door is open, if the screen door was removed.
What does the screen door have to do with seperation?

"that cat's a trip hazard"
I'll agree with that.

Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell

I don't understand what you are saying, would you explane?

"That door opens over an interior stair and requires a landing."
Where is the interior stair you refer to?

Rick,

Those two treads and treads risers are a stair, and it is not "exterior", thus it is "interior".

From the 2006 IRC. (bold and underlining are mine)

- R311.5.4 Landings for stairways.

There shall be a floor or landing at the top and bottom of each stairway.

- - Exception:

A floor or landing is not required at the top of an interior flight of stairs, including stairs in an enclosed garage, provided a door does not swing over the stairs.
- - A flight of stairs shall not have a vertical rise larger than 12 feet (3658 mm) between floor levels or landings.
- - The width of each landing shall not be less than the width of the stairway served. Every landing shall have a minimum dimension of 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel.

"Also, that door is a screen door and, when the main door is open, that screen door will not provide the required separation between the garage and the house."

It sounds like you are saying it would have the required separation when the main door is open, if the screen door was removed.
What does the screen door have to do with separation?

Yes, separation is needed when that main door is open as the intent of the screen door is to have the main door left open. The intent of doors, especially those which provide separation, is that the doors are closed when not in use (when no one is going through them). The main door, with the screen door, is intended to be left open, almost like removing the door and taking it off - which, for all intents and purposes, is what leaving it open is like.

Without the screen door, the main door would be closed when not in use. Thus, the easy solution to that is to remove the screen door.

Here are some other things about that screen door to the garage - what about combustion air for those gas appliances in the garage, now that the main door is open and the house space is communicating with the garage space through the screen door.

I see lots of issues that screen door to the garage from the living space brings on, originally, I only mentioned the stair and top landing aspect.

.....

Matt:

I have to agree with Jerry on all counts, except for the cat. The cat did not install the steps with uneven risers the out-swing screen door or the furnace on the garage floor (if that's what I see on the left). The gas line, though in my opinion code-compliant, is still a trip hazard. Unlike the drawers in the risers example, it is permanently protruding into any pedestrian's path.

That cat is probably just visiting.

Aaron

Jerry
Thank you for the explanation.

My first thought was that the garage is exterior not interior as you say, BUT...

IRC R311.4.2 "

There shall be a floor or landing
on each side of each exterior door...

Exceptions:

1. Where a stairway of two or fewer risers is located
on the exterior side of a door, other than the
required exit door, a landing is not required for the
exterior side of the door provided the door, other
than an exterior storm or screen door does not
swing over the stairway."
So if it is exterior and has 3 or more risers then a landing is required at each side of the door. Only interior doors are not required to have landings on each side of the door.

"Yes, separation is needed when that main door is open as the intent of the screen door is to have the main door left open. The intent of doors, especially those which provide separation, is that the doors are closed when not in use (when no one is going through them). The main door, with the screen door, is intended to be left open, almost like removing the door and taking it off - which, for all intents and purposes, is what leaving it open is like."

As I said before, " You look beyond the obvious."

Didn't read through all the replies but I see an unlisted cat in proximity to a short stair riser with an obstruction under the nosing of the door threshold.

The stairs may be considered protection from a car bumper and the pipe is secured so it may not be so bad. Think about what hazards exist here. What is going to damage that pipe to the point it leaks. If you can make a case for a legitimate hazard then write it up. You could recommend they route the gas line above and around the door but the resulting pressure drop would be far more likely to cause a delayed ignition, sooting or other problems, which far outweigh that cure. Drilling the stairs is exccessive in my view. I would suggest however in this case since the stairs do not meet the stanards and do represent a real trip hazard, recommend the stairs be rebuilt with a conduit that allows passage of the gas line through but allows it to be inspected, serviced or fugitive gas to escape into the room where it can be detected.

That unlisted cat has got to go, though.

Happy New Year,
Bob

Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell

My first thought was that the garage is exterior not interior as you say, BUT...

IRC R311.4.2 "

There shall be a floor or landing

on each side of each exterior door...
Exceptions:
1. Where a stairway of two or fewer risers

Rick,

Also, that stair in the photo has three risers.

Originally Posted by Bob Harper

That unlisted cat has got to go, though.

Bob,

That cat looks like it is listing to the left ... does that count as 'listed'?

I would suggest however in this case since the stairs do not meet the stanards and do represent a real trip hazard, recommend the stairs be rebuilt with a conduit that allows passage of the gas line through but allows it to be inspected, serviced or fugitive gas to escape into the room where it can be detected.

The fix that I would recommend also, in addition to removing the screen door.

What are your thoughts on that screen door (with the main door being open) and the communicating garage space and house space, regarding the gas appliances in the garage?

Jerry
"Also, that stair in the photo has three risers."
Yes, thats why I posted the code in bold.

As long as we are discussing garage to house door openings………… comments?

These type of steps are common in a garage, but has the same issues as the other in this thread.

That door looks like it might be a hollow-core type and the threshold is missing.

rick

Hi Rick
I'm only aware of one issue and that's the extra large opening at the door botom and assuming it's a 3/8" thick SC and/or FR door with a self closing device I see no problems..... ?

Presuming that the door is 1-3/8" solid core, and that there is going to be a threshold installed (looks like new construction and the door has just been painted), then we have ...

- The bottom tread looks trapezoidal.
- The top tread does not look the same depth as the top tread.
- The top riser does not look the same height as the center riser, which looks different than the bottom rise (which could be at an angle, making an optical illusion).
- Are the treads level? If not, how close to level are they (within 1/4" per foot)?