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  1. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Posts
    3,741

    Default Re: Heat Pump temperature drop

    Lets see

    E= MC hammer,
    carry the naught
    x (that funny looking symbol)
    = 85.40556924/ number of ducks in a row
    Got it!

    Elite MGA Home Inspector E&O Insurance
    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  2. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Posts
    3,741

    Default Re: Heat Pump temperature drop

    Crap, left out the enthalpy values.
    Gotta start all over.

    Be back in a minute.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  3. #68
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    Posts
    1,072

    Default Re: Heat Pump temperature drop



    Mike Schulz License 393
    Affordable Home Inspections
    www.houseinspections.com

  4. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Near Philly, Pa.
    Posts
    1,632

    Question Why is a HI measuring delta T in the first place?

    This has drifted off from a larger question. What does a HI expect to gain from any testing of an HVAC system other than a full comprehensive test that is done in a manner taught in a certification program and using ALL the tools necesary?

    So what if you read some air temp. coming out of a furnace. What are the test parameters? What are the indoor and outdoor temps at the time of the test? Wet vs dry bulb air RH%? Is this with the dirty or new filter and if so, what MERV? Tight or leaky ducts? Zone dampers stuck or registers open or closed? Humidifier bypass open or closed? House interior doors open or closed? How about the heating mode? Does it work when all the other appliances are firing and the gas pressure bottoms out leaving you with a low delta T, poor combustion efficiency and possibly venting failure?

    Any HI that 'tests' an HVAC system to declare it 'acceptable' or 'working' or whatever else is asking for trouble. Yes, you are generalists but there is no other system or aspect of a home more complex than the HVAC. Do you also test the delta T on potable hot water? Why not? How about boilers? Do you sit around and wait for the radiators to warm? What if the boiler has an indirect tank? Are you going to comment on whether or not that system is suffiicient for that house's demands? Tankless? Where does it end?

    I see you guys sticking your necks out for the chopping block. This is one area you either do it comprehensively as Davidr has suggested or not at all. It has gotten to the point that all Home Inspections should really have a separate HVAC system inspection, performance review, and combustion analysis.

    Just my tuppence,
    Bob

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  5. #70
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    5,392

    Default Re: Why is a HI measuring delta T in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Harper View Post
    This has drifted off from a larger question. What does a HI expect to gain from any testing of an HVAC system other than a full comprehensive test that is done in a manner taught in a certification program and using ALL the tools necesary?

    So what if you read some air temp. coming out of a furnace. What are the test parameters? What are the indoor and outdoor temps at the time of the test? Wet vs dry bulb air RH%? Is this with the dirty or new filter and if so, what MERV? Tight or leaky ducts? Zone dampers stuck or registers open or closed? Humidifier bypass open or closed? House interior doors open or closed? How about the heating mode? Does it work when all the other appliances are firing and the gas pressure bottoms out leaving you with a low delta T, poor combustion efficiency and possibly venting failure?

    Any HI that 'tests' an HVAC system to declare it 'acceptable' or 'working' or whatever else is asking for trouble. Yes, you are generalists but there is no other system or aspect of a home more complex than the HVAC. Do you also test the delta T on potable hot water? Why not? How about boilers? Do you sit around and wait for the radiators to warm? What if the boiler has an indirect tank? Are you going to comment on whether or not that system is suffiicient for that house's demands? Tankless? Where does it end?

    I see you guys sticking your necks out for the chopping block. This is one area you either do it comprehensively as Davidr has suggested or not at all. It has gotten to the point that all Home Inspections should really have a separate HVAC system inspection, performance review, and combustion analysis.

    Just my tuppence,
    Bob
    Dave

    You sound like a nice guy, smart guy, interesting guy but I see a flaw in the works.

    Why are we touching HVAC

    Why are we touching dishwashers

    Why are we commenting on framing

    Why do we look at Water heaters

    Why do we look at roof coverings

    Why do we look at foundations

    Why do we check out windows

    Why do we even step into a home to inspect it at all

    What the hell do we know about anything

    Why do we even feel if there is hot, cold or no air blowing out of a supply vent

    Why do we look at wall covering

    Why do we look at counter tops of all types

    Why do we step into a building at all???

    Seriously Dave. Are you listening to yourself at all.

    I have tried to be nice, polite, kind hearted and all. But seriously are you not listening at all. Can you not get your thoughts away for one single second that our VAST amount of general knowledge (and some of us no more about so many items that we could not start to list them) and general inspecting EVEN YOUR HVAC WORLD OF GENERAL INSPECTION, it is scary.

    You will be amazed at how right frigging on in inspecting HVAC systems after inspecting thousands of them, we are. You would more than likely roll over and die to find out that when HVAC men come in behind us with our ignorant, incomplete and pathetic general inspection, which buy the way rolls the entire home into our findings, with the HVAC system how friggin right on we are. And that is without pulling out the wet bulb, dry bulb, chart, hole drilling.

    Why is that that we can be right on with our ignorant bliss. Why???? BECAUSE WE HAVE INSPECTED THOUSANDS OF THEM.

    How can a mechanic listen to a car roll into the shop and just by the way it moves, smells, sounds etc, pick it apart and tell you exactly what the problems are before tearing it apart.

    I know your expertise in the field wants to fight this to death and by the way, I am not fighting about the test. I know the tests will be more definitive and exacting but believe it or not we know how far to go with our inspections to gain enough knowledge with all we inspect to pass valuable information off to our clients withoput trying to appear that we are the know all end all.

    No matter how much we know and no matter what our expertise is in any field of the condtruction of a home and testing of those systems in that home we are not going to put ourselves off as finding every single solitary item in every system in every single inspection.

    My God man please think before you reply if you reply.

    No your tests are not difficult. But in saying that, no, if any inspector is drilling holes anywhere in the home, in any system with out written permission and wants to carry the whole bill himself (because the insurance carrier will laugh his arse off when he says he is turning in a claim for drilling holes anywhere) then he is just flat out wrong and should not be doing such at all, period.

    Unfortunately I happen to like this back and forth but I have run out of ways to suck up insults and be told how pathetic our inspection process is and we don't know our arses from our elbos etc and we should not even be within ten feet of an HVAC system cause we are just all screwed up in our thought process etc etc. And honestly I cannot think of anymore ways to tell you what a home inspection is or is not.

    I appreciate all your knowledge and have great respect of one so knowledgable in a particular field. Honestly though sometimes to knowledgable in one field keeps one from seeing the bigger picture.

    You may think a home inspector some kind of half arse look around idiot collecting a paycheck for much about nuttin but I think thousands of inspectors and well rounded folks would be hot to disagree.

    Oh yeah Dave

    I inspected 5 seperate systems today. 2 in one home and three in the other

    I tink I dun perty good. You might want to add those to the thousands before that. Gee, come to think of it I more than likely screwed up the inspection with all five systems. I am seriously pathetic. I am going off to have a couple Margaritas and cry at the bar.

    Last edited by Ted Menelly; 07-03-2009 at 06:14 PM.
    Ted Menelly, Castle Home Inspection Services
    www.inspectmycastle.com
    Fort Worth, Keller, Southlake, Plano, Flower Mound, DFW, TX

  6. #71
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Frankfort, KY
    Posts
    326

    Default Re: Heat Pump temperature drop

    Lol.......... Ted I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself before it finally clicks.

    I fully understand what a home inspection is meant to do and it's purpose.
    Why you continue to revert to me thinking HI's are idiots and half assing inspections I have no clue. You are taking this way too personal, do you always take things so personally?
    First it was Jerry, now me.

    My comments have been in regards to the HVAC portion of the inspection the entire time NOT THE HOME INSPECTION PROCESS.
    I've tried to inform you of new methods that will make your measurements a lot more accurate but you want no part of them. Something about leading a horse to water.

    If you'll go back and re-read my comments instead of picking out bits and pieces you'll see I really am trying to be helpful and not busting your balls.

    Measured Performance more than just a buzzword

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