Dishwasher drains to (basement) laundry standpipe

[Egbert Jager]

New one for me (I've only been at this for a decade so there's something new everyday still).

The homeowner installed the dishwasher drain hose through the floor and then into the laundry standpipe (laundry in the basement).

There are lots of rules and regs about tying in ahead of the p-trap, and high loops (No airgap devices in this jurisdiction :Calgary, Alberta), but I'm looking for the reasons an appliance has to connect under the kitchen sink.1000(2).jpeg

And yes, the rubber hose when through the top plate of an outside wall and then down through the top of the laundry washer outlet box and down into the standpipe (with the washing machine discharge).

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[Bruce Low]

Y'all might want to check with a local plumber. I can't speak for Alberta rules, but here in Wisconsin a dishwasher drain can be connected in only 2 ways.......... With an air gap device or with a trapped standpipe at least 15" high (or both, so I guess that's 3 ways). Quite often I find the standpipe in the basement, which is OK (and sometimes I find the air gap device under the sink, which is not OK).

So you are probably OK (assuming the standpipe is high enough), but it sure is a convoluted install. Main concerns would be freezing and hose failure.

Oh, and..... GO PACK GO

[ROBERT YOUNG]

New one for me (I've only been at this for a decade so there's something new everyday still).

The homeowner installed the dishwasher drain hose through the floor and then into the laundry standpipe (laundry in the basement).

Morning, Egbert.
Hope to find you well and in good spirits today.

1: The dishwasher manufacture recommends discharge termination.
2: Most dishwashers come from the factory with a 6-foot 6-inch drain hose, and nearly all manufacturers allow this hose, no extension, to be extended to a "maximum total length" of between 10 and 12 feet.
height. The dishwasher must be installed so that drain hose is no more than 10 feet in length for proper drainage.
3: High Loop. If Required. A "high loop" in the drain line of a dishwasher is one method of preventing backflow of fluid to the dishwasher.

There are lots of rules and regs about tying in ahead of the p-trap, and high loops (No airgap devices in this jurisdiction :Calgary, Alberta), but I'm looking for the reasons an appliance has to connect under the kitchen sink.1000(2).jpeg

We are not AHJ. I stay away from code.

[Jerry Peck]

We are not AHJ. I stay away from code.

While home inspectors are not THE AHJ, home inspectors ARE inspecting buildings which were ... supposedly ... built to code ... therefore home inspectors need to be aware of (have knowledge of) how those buildings are built - which is TO CODE.

If a home inspector 'stays away from' code, then that home inspector also needs stay away from saying or indicating that something is good/okay/acceptable/operating as intended/etc.

If the home inspector doesn't feel comfortable saying that something 'doesn't meet code', then that home inspector OBVIOUSLY is also not qualified to say/indicate that something meets code.

It is a two-way street ... if you can't drive toward oncoming traffic and feel comfortable ... stay off two-way street.

Stick to safer one-way streets were everyone is going the same direction and one isn't challenged to think about where they are going, writing 'looks okay TO ME ... TO ME ... TO ME (because you can't indicate that it is as it should be).

[Mike Stephans]

New one for me (I've only been at this for a decade so there's something new everyday still).

The homeowner installed the dishwasher drain hose through the floor and then into the laundry standpipe (laundry in the basement).

There are lots of rules and regs about tying in ahead of the p-trap, and high loops (No airgap devices in this jurisdiction :Calgary, Alberta), but I'm looking for the reasons an appliance has to connect under the kitchen sink.1000(2).jpeg

And yes, the rubber hose when through the top plate of an outside wall and then down through the top of the laundry washer outlet box and down into the standpipe (with the washing machine discharge).

Unconventional install at best. Just thinking out loud, regarding an air gap or high loop, what's their purpose - to stop cross contamination from sink water. This hose isn't connected to the sink so is there a cross contamination concern? The washer's drain pipe is fine and most likely without any issues, so why wouldn't the dishwashers hose be fine in this situation? My concern would be overflow if both appliances drain at the same time. Many times I see dishwashers drain into a crawl space which creates an array of other problems.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

While home inspectors are not THE AHJ, home inspectors ARE inspecting buildings which were ... supposedly ... built to code ... therefore home inspectors need to be aware of (have knowledge of) how those buildings are built - which is TO CODE.

If a home inspector 'stays away from' code, then that home inspector also needs stay away from saying or indicating that something is good/okay/acceptable/operating as intended/etc.

If the home inspector doesn't feel comfortable saying that something 'doesn't meet code', then that home inspector OBVIOUSLY is also not qualified to say/indicate that something meets code.

It is a two-way street ... if you can't drive toward oncoming traffic and feel comfortable ... stay off two-way street.

Stick to safer one-way streets were everyone is going the same direction and one isn't challenged to think about where they are going, writing 'looks okay TO ME ... TO ME ... TO ME (because you can't indicate that it is as it should be).

By the same coin. Just because I drive a car and have a valid drivers license I follow regulations and do not enforce regulations on others.

Back to thread. Any thoughts, without using code?

[Jerry Peck]

By the same coin. Just because I drive a car and have a valid drivers license I follow regulations and do not enforce regulations on others.

That's a Canadian coin, not a US coin - the US coin is that if you are driving a car and reporting to people that what they are doing is correct or incorrect, you are able to do so BECAUSE "I follow regulations" (which means you know the regulations).

Your Canadian coin is apparently based on that home inspectors are not reporting to others that what they are doing is neither correct nor incorrect ... which means that the reporting is of no value as they are paying for what you found.

If one is watching a checkers game and wants to get paid to comment on the checkers game, then one needs to understand the rules of checkers ... or back off and let others do the commenting.

My thinking uses what are called 'trains of thought' - such as: common sense and logic.

If one does not know what they are doing, then stand aside and don't make comments, let others who do know make the comments ... building are built (supposedly) to a building code, if one does not know or understand the requirements of "how" the building is supposed to be built, then let others do the commenting.

Likewise, if one does understand the requirements of "how" the building is supposed to be built, and they say or indicate that it is "correct" or "incorrect" (in whatever terms they may use to indicate such), then there is absolutely nothing wrong with (and should be a requirement to) providing supporting documentation indicating "why" one says that something is "correct" or "incorrect".

So, in response to your: "Any thoughts, without using code?" ...

Any thoughts of supporting what you say?

[Marcel Gratton]

New one for me (I've only been at this for a decade so there's something new everyday still).

The homeowner installed the dishwasher drain hose through the floor and then into the laundry standpipe (laundry in the basement).

There are lots of rules and regs about tying in ahead of the p-trap, and high loops (No airgap devices in this jurisdiction :Calgary, Alberta), but I'm looking for the reasons an appliance has to connect under the kitchen sink.1000(2).jpeg

And yes, the rubber hose when through the top plate of an outside wall and then down through the top of the laundry washer outlet box and down into the standpipe (with the washing machine discharge).

I suspect that it is not proper. There are minimum permitted size of fixture outlet pipe and hydraulic loads for fixtures in most Plumbing Building Code. For example, in Quebec a 2inch drain is now required for a clothes washer.

[Jim Hintz]

Homeowner must be a "Hoser", eh? I couldn't resist.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Homeowner must be a "Hoser", eh? I couldn't resist.

Stop and wait a minute If that's the case. ...Then the rubber hose and dishware flex tubing was fastened with the home owners secret weapon Duct Tape and the installation preformed by Red Green

[Ken Amelin]

That's a Canadian coin, not a US coin - the US coin is that if you are driving a car and reporting to people that what they are doing is correct or incorrect, you are able to do so BECAUSE "I follow regulations" (which means you know the regulations).

Your Canadian coin is apparently based on that home inspectors are not reporting to others that what they are doing is neither correct nor incorrect ... which means that the reporting is of no value as they are paying for what you found.

If one is watching a checkers game and wants to get paid to comment on the checkers game, then one needs to understand the rules of checkers ... or back off and let others do the commenting.

My thinking uses what are called 'trains of thought' - such as: common sense and logic.

If one does not know what they are doing, then stand aside and don't make comments, let others who do know make the comments ... building are built (supposedly) to a building code, if one does not know or understand the requirements of "how" the building is supposed to be built, then let others do the commenting.

Likewise, if one does understand the requirements of "how" the building is supposed to be built, and they say or indicate that it is "correct" or "incorrect" (in whatever terms they may use to indicate such), then there is absolutely nothing wrong with (and should be a requirement to) providing supporting documentation indicating "why" one says that something is "correct" or "incorrect".

So, in response to your: "Any thoughts, without using code?" ...

Any thoughts of supporting what you say?

Jerry - All Good information BUT - Is the dishwasher draining into and sharing a laundry standpipe to code?

[Jim Hintz]

Stop and wait a minute If that's the case. ...Then the rubber hose and dishware flex tubing was fastened with the home owners secret weapon Duct Tape and the installation preformed by Red Green

I miss that show. Wish I was at the Possum Lodge right now !

[Jerry Peck]

Jerry - All Good information BUT - Is the dishwasher draining into and sharing a laundry standpipe to code?

Ken,

From the IRC:

(from) TABLE P3004.1
- DRAINAGE FIXTURE UNIT (d.f.u.) VALUES FOR VARIOUS PLUMBING FIXTURES
- - TYPE OF FIXTURE OR GROUP OF FIXTURES / DRAINAGE FIXTURE UNIT VALUE (d.f.u.)a - - - Clothes washer standpipe / 2
- - - Dishwasher / 2
- (note 'a' referenced in table title)
- - a. For a continuous or semicontinuous flow into a drainage system, such as from a pump or similar device, 1.5 fixture units shall be allowed per gpm of flow. For a fixture not listed, use the highest d.f.u. value for a similar listed fixture.


Based on the table in the code, a clothes washer standpipe (and thus the clothes washer) is rated for 2 d.f.u..

Based on that same table, a dishwasher is rated for 2 d.f.u.

To put both a clothes washer and a dishwasher into the same waste receptor (same standpipe):
- TABLE P3005.4.1 - - MAXIMUM FIXTURE UNITS ALLOWED TO BE CONNECTED TO BRANCHES AND STACKS
- - - states that 2" pipe is good for 6 fixture units and a 2-1/2" pipe is good for 12 fixture units, with a note 'b', and note 'b' says "No water closets"

Thus, if the clothes washer is 2 fixture units and the dishwasher is 2 fixture units, the 2" pipe rated for 6 fixture units should be large enough to handle both ... if both were properly connected to the 2" pipe (not into the standpipe that way), into the two inch pipe through a separate fitting).

The other issue I see is that the fireblocking was drilled through (or worse) and I doubt any firestopping/fireblocking was used around the hole(s) for that hose.

That;s for starters.

[Richard Bushong]

Y'all might want to check with a local plumber. I can't speak for Alberta rules, but here in Wisconsin a dishwasher drain can be connected in only 2 ways.......... With an air gap device or with a trapped standpipe at least 15" high (or both, so I guess that's 3 ways). Quite often I find the standpipe in the basement, which is OK (and sometimes I find the air gap device under the sink, which is not OK).

So you are probably OK (assuming the standpipe is high enough), but it sure is a convoluted install. Main concerns would be freezing and hose failure.

Oh, and..... GO PACK GO

The laundry standpipes are usually trapped if installed properly and the dishwasher drain is air gapped at the entrance to the laundry standpipe. The rubber hose extension is questionable you have to remember Fernco makes rubber plumbing fittings that are accepted. Question should go to local authority.

[lorenzdenesiks]

Does it depend on model of a dishwasher? I am going to buy SPT SD-9254W after reading https://dishwashereview.com/best-dishwasher-under-500/ but I would like to know more information before buying and installing.

[Richard Bushong]

That's a Canadian coin, not a US coin - the US coin is that if you are driving a car and reporting to people that what they are doing is correct or incorrect, you are able to do so BECAUSE "I follow regulations" (which means you know the regulations).
Your answer is perfect, the definition of integrity comes to mind where you do the right thing even when people are not watching.
Your Canadian coin is apparently based on that home inspectors are not reporting to others that what they are doing is neither correct nor incorrect ... which means that the reporting is of no value as they are paying for what you found.

If one is watching a checkers game and wants to get paid to comment on the checkers game, then one needs to understand the rules of checkers ... or back off and let others do the commenting.

My thinking uses what are called 'trains of thought' - such as: common sense and logic.

If one does not know what they are doing, then stand aside and don't make comments, let others who do know make the comments ... building are built (supposedly) to a building code, if one does not know or understand the requirements of "how" the building is supposed to be built, then let others do the commenting.

Likewise, if one does understand the requirements of "how" the building is supposed to be built, and they say or indicate that it is "correct" or "incorrect" (in whatever terms they may use to indicate such), then there is absolutely nothing wrong with (and should be a requirement to) providing supporting documentation indicating "why" one says that something is "correct" or "incorrect".

So, in response to your: "Any thoughts, without using code?" ...

Any thoughts of supporting what you say?

Your answer is perfect, the definition of integrity comes to mind where you do the right thing even when people are not watching.