I questioned the condensate arrangement of this coil. It is above a garage and the safety pan and condensate line drain into the same drain. Also the primary drain line is slope incorrectly and the water is draining into the pan not the drain. I thought a secondary drain line was required to terminate at a different location. What are the requirements with this set up? Plus the humidifier is missing a drain pan.

Thanks

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Matthew,

What's that big thing on the end, a humidifier?

Your photo shows only a primary condensate drain, no secondary condensate drain (you can see the blue plug in the secondary opening next to the primary condensate drain line).

Both the primary and secondary condensate lines require traps. There is no trap on the primary condensate line, and, there is no secondary condensate line at all.

The secondary condensate line should be from that blue plug opening to a trap to the auxiliary drain pan. The auxiliary drain pan drain line does not need a trap (and none is installed, that's good).

Now, back to that big thing on the end ... what is it and, no, it should not be tied in with the primary condensate drain line. As connected now, when the primary condensate drain line backs up, that 'big thing on the end' will also back up.

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
EastWestData (www.EastWestData.com )

The pan drain line should drain to the exterior thru a soffit preferably above a window. This should be set up like that so the home owner can recognise when the primary drain is clogged or the system has other concerns like possible inner pan rot and needs to be serviced.

Boy am I about to get it.

And yes you need a secondary drain line to the pan

__________________
Ted Menelly
"Castle"
Home Inspection Services

Ted,

When was the last time you saw a secondary line with a trap? I can't recall seeing one either.

All the secondary drain lines I see elbow directly into the drain pan which then has a drain from the pan to the exterior.

rick

Or ...

The auxiliary pan drain line could go no where and there could be a cut off switch in the pan instead.

I personally like to see both the auxiliary drain pan drain line *and* the cut off switch.

Ted, who you trying to kid about homeowners recognizing that water dripping in front of the window as meaning the a/c needs servicing?

That's the reason for the cut off switch also - when that drain line clogs up, the cut off switch shuts the unit off (if the switch works - which is why I also like having the drain for the pan, each one acts as a failsafe for the other).

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
EastWestData (www.EastWestData.com )

I know, how silly of me. But, I do tell everyone of my clients where the exterior drain is (always over a window) and what it means if water is dripping out of it. As far as the cut off switch, the line better still drain to the exterior over a window in case the son of a gun does not work......

Just me

__________________
Ted Menelly
"Castle"
Home Inspection Services

Im trying to visualize the first photo. It looks like the primary drain line slopes up, at least where it ties into the "common drain". Where does the line go that runs off the tee? No vents? It looks like something got really hot on the cabinet (notice the black spot). Did they use a torch to cut it, or was something else going on?

Jerrys right the belt and suspenders approach (cut off switch and drain pan line) are the way to go.

I also mention the washer drain pan outlet & the water heater relief valve outlet along with the A/C backup drain pan outlet in my reports. I tell them that if they see water coming from these pipes they get to get the culprit serviced.

Jerry,
Yes it is a humidifier, and it is missing a drain pan under it. And as you know, there have been one or two humidifiers that have leaked in the past. Here is one more photo. And the primary drain line is sloped in the wrong direction, causing water to drain into the pan. You can see the water in the one photo.

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Improperly sloped or sagging condensate lines can be another thing to watch for. Just had a contractor friend tell me that he did a renovation and added central AC in attic. Long condensate line with elbow. Owner called him last week says ceiling and walls wet. He rushed over and due to sag in condensate line water stayed in line and froze during the winter and elbow broke apart. This job never ends!

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Dave

I'm not sure he does know. There isn't much call for humidifiers in Florida after all. Jerry - were you joking when you asked if the big thing on the end was a humidifier?

Yeah, I didn't mention the reverse slope because you had already done so.

You are intermixing two terms: secondary drain line and safety pan drain line.

That does not have a "secondary condensate drain line", from my first response:

"Your photo shows only a primary condensate drain, no secondary condensate drain (you can see the blue plug in the secondary opening next to the primary condensate drain line)."

"Both the primary and secondary condensate lines require traps. There is no trap on the primary condensate line, and, there is no secondary condensate line at all."

"The secondary condensate line should be from that blue plug opening to a trap to the auxiliary drain pan. The auxiliary drain pan drain line does not need a trap (and none is installed, that's good)."

Now, back to what I think you are asking: The auxiliary pan (safety pan) does not require a drain line, it could have a cut-off switch. However, if it does have a drain line, that drain line is not supposed to be connected to the primary drain line, it is to be routed at Ted said - to someplace conspicuous where the homeowner will see it, typically the drain pipe is sticking through the soffit above a window.

That said, I don't think both are connection to the same drain line in that photo, if they are, you have a bigger problem.

It think both are going into the same chase, with two drain lines running down through that chase. One of those drain lines should be for the primary condensate drain line and the other should be for the humidifier drain line. Both should be properly trapped.

Then, the secondary drain from the a/c should drain into the auxiliary drain pan under the AHU, and the secondary drain line should be properly trapped. That auxiliary pan *does not require* a drain, however, if it has a drain line, it should be routed as stated above. It could have a drain line *or* a cut-off switch, I prefer both.

Finally, the humidifier should (I think, I really don't know much about humidifiers as all we ever do is dehumidify) have an auxiliary pan under it. I suspect that auxiliary pan could either be drained of have a cut-off switch too????

Now back to my "That said, I don't think both are connection to the same drain line in that photo, if they are, you have a bigger problem." ...

*IF* those *are* both draining into a single drain line, then the top of that drain line is *at the attic floor*. When that sucker backs up ... you get the picture ... *water is going to go everywhere*.

That's why I think that is just a chase for the two separate drain lines.

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
EastWestData (www.EastWestData.com )

John,

Correct (see my post above) - I am not sure that humidifiers require an auxiliary pan under them, makes sense, but is it required?

Correct again -(also in my post above) - why on earth would one want to humidify humid air?

Correct again!

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
EastWestData (www.EastWestData.com )

David,

Wouldn't a water filled trap pose the same problem?

Not being in freezing country, I've never thought about that. That could be a problem for every AHU in an attic, couldn't it?

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
EastWestData (www.EastWestData.com )

Maybe? Did not get details. Maybe the elbow came apart due to poor installation. Maybe defect in elbow? I thought he said it shattered at the elbow. I will try to get more info.

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Dave

That same thing just happened here in a house I inspected this week. They have an air handler and humidifier in the attic, and something froze in the winter time and caused a big problem. I told my client I would remove the humidifier or disconnect it if it were up to me. I don't know what he'll end up doing with it.

I could see the traps freezing, but there should be enough room for expansion so that the pipes don't crack, or at least I hope so.

__________________
Jim Robinson
New Mexico, USA

Here are the condensate drain(s) from today's crawlspace. HVAC was dated 5/2004. House built in 1988

- Primary and secondary share the same pipe.
- Elbow is broken and dumps all the condensate directly into the crawlspace.
- Condensate pipe would run uphill if it wasn't broken
- Resulting puddles create a weather cycle effect so that the crawlspace evaporates enough water for it to condense on the duct work and rain on to the vapor barrier to start the cycle again
- Disconnect panel was beginning to rust a tad
- Some of the ducts were shedding their skin

HVAC was dated 5/2004

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__________________
Bruce Ramsey
Advocate Inspections
www.NCAdvocate.com