Need to know where I stand about Inspector responsibilities. Should a home inspector open a split system air handler to see it’s condition? We bought a home eight months ago. Had it inspected and then had seller pay for warranty (American Home Shield).

Air Handler motor seized up last week. Contractor dispatched by AHS reported system was ‘filthy’ and had not been maintained. Our claim is now denied and we face significant expense to clean and replace parts or purchase new handler (it's fifteen years old and there's a old motor lying next to the unit in the crawl space that tells us it's been done before).

We installed top quality filters when we moved in, and changed them out a month ago.
It’s obvious to me the equipment did not go from clean to filthy in eight months. So if it had been inspected, it would have been discovered.

Should the inspector have inspected the motor, or is that beyond the scope of our contract with him?

Thanks, in advance, for your thoughts...

Bob

Bob, you dont say where you are from. That would be a big help in people determining if your states SOPs requires inspectors to open up equipment.


I believe that it is not required in most states to dismantle equipment for inspection, however without seeing what you are describing, I couldnt say for sure that it would apply in your particular case. Do you have any photos or referencing verbage from your inspection report you could post?

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Bob,

If your location is a Zip code entered on the right of your post you are in Simpsonville SC. 29681 .

The attachment is a copy of South Carolina Standards of Practice.

Sounds like you should be asking some questions from the individual who told you Quote ( more or less ) "Oh don't Worry you have a One Year Home Warranty that comes with this House. "

I would suggest you do a search on the home warranty company denied claims as you are not alone.

You did Know The System was 15 years old when you purchased the home ?

Attached Images

HIAPP.pdf (73.0 KB, 14 views)

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It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie!
Billy J. Stephens HI Service
Memphis TN.

Bob, what did your inspector say about the air handler/ HVAC system in your report? Was it simply documented as operable or was any recommendation made to have repairs made or the system serviced?

The SOPs Billy attached state in the limitations that equipment is not to be dismantled but then it also says in the HEATING section LIMITATIONS on page 7 that "A - The inspector is not required to: 3) Disassemble equipment by any means other than panels provided by the manufacturer for inspections and/or service." If you go by this, then the inspector should be opening access panels. But the question is what constutues "a panel provided by the manufacturer for inspections and/or service"? All panels that make up the cabinet for the air handler are removeable in some way and may need to be removed for proper servicing of the system. How much of the system/equipment is the inspector required to open?

What type of split system do you have Bob? Is it a heat pump or is the split system for AC only? The verbiage is conflicting in those SOPs and states nothing in the COOLING section about opening or not opening panels on a cooling system. However, there is the general LIMITATIONS disclaimer at the bottom of the 1st page in the SOPs that states "No disassembly of equipment".

I think this comes back to whether or not any visible condition was present during the inspection that would have necessitated a call for repairs or servicing by an HVAC professional. Any pics or report verbiage about the system would be helpful Bob.

In my opinion, absolutely - home inspectors 'should' open those covers.

Whether or not they are 'required' to, though, is a different matter - that 'requirement' will be in the Standard of Practice (SoP) they work under.

Regardless of what is stated as 'required' in the SoP, if 50% or more of the home inspectors in that area open those covers, that is the 'standard' to be used in that area, 'required' by the SoP or not.

Opening the cover and 'looking inside' and 'inspecting the motor' are not synonymous. They 'should' open the cover to 'look at' the general overall condition, such as being dirty, however, 'looking at' is not the same as 'inspecting the motor'.

Any evidence of a not clean coil, blower, etc, would typically be reported as 'have a/c system cleaned and serviced'.

Thus, the end responsibility would lie with whomever did that 'cleaning and servicing', provided that was recommended.

Which gets us to what Nick said:

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

We don't have a whole lot of central air here. We do have lots of forced air furnaces. I always open up the blower motor door to check the filter condition and take a look at the motor and belts (if present on the older ones). There isn't a whole lot more you can check on the motor other than is it working. I guess if it was completely full of dirt and crap you might make a note to clean it out inside there, but most of them aren't very dirty, since the dirt would be pulled into the duct by the fan eventually and end up on your TV screen.

I'm assuming that this is the motor you are talking about. They're pretty easy to replace in most situations.

I do not normally open the air handler door to look at the A frame unit. Do most of you open that door to look inside? I have opened some of them, but so many are taped closed to seal up the air leaks that I stopped because I didn't want to have to tape or reseal everything.

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Jim Robinson
New Mexico, USA

Jim. I do exactly what you do.

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Dave

Jerry

I cannot believe you said this statement below

"Regardless of what is stated as 'required' in the SOP, if 50% or more of the home inspectors in that area open those covers, that is the 'standard' to be used in that area, 'required' by the SOP or not."

If it is in the standards or not???? What are you suppose to do. Call 50 inspectors in your area and find out if 50% of them do a particular dead at an inspection.

As far as Davids point about opening the condenser cabinet, well half of them are sealed, on top of the system and cannot be gotten into. As far as looking at the blower motor in newer units you can get to them most of the time. Many HVAC have been leaking or sucking air severally in the past and HVAC techs have come in and taped and mastic-ed the units up. To open them and break that seal that the seller paid to have done, well, I don't do it. As far as not being able to access a unit properly I will always write it up to be serviced and cleaned for that fact.

Quick edit here

As far as testing the motor for current draw or anything besides apparent operation, vibration etc. I do not believe that is going to happen with almost any inspector.

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Ted Menelly
"Castle"
Home Inspection Services

At what point do you start/stop disassembling items. I think you have to at least go by the SOPs, but those are the SOPs regardless of what >than 50% of inspectors in your area do. The SOPs are the minimum and of course some people do more than the minimum. We all pull covers on electrical panels, water heaters, etc. but I would venture to say most people arent dismantling all wall switches/receptacles/plumbing clean outs/etc. Without manuals etc from the manufacturer, Im not sure you can say what is/isnt an inspection panel.

Bob,

You mentioned you have been in the home for 8 months.

Has is been working all this time or has it been giving you problems since you moved in?

rick

Almost any standard does have an out. If a crawl is to tight. If a roof is to steep. If an electric panel cannot be accessed because there is 2000 pounds of crap in front of it, OR if a condenser cabinet is covered with tape and then mastic. You mention why you could not do this or that and like I say there are outs and a good reason for them.

You cannot be invasive. Invasive is spending 15 minutes getting all the crap off the unit and destroying what someone was trying to prevent and paid good money for. It is not your buyers home YET.

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Ted Menelly
"Castle"
Home Inspection Services

Thanks to you all for your thoughtful replies....I do live in Simpsonville, South Carolina, up towards the mountains, just outside Greenville. The weather runs fairly hot in the Summer, humidity fluctuates. I don't have any photo's as the contractor closed up anything he might have opened to expose the condition.

We used AmeriSpec Home Inspection, Inc., which is how we got the American Home Shield warranty. In the Summary Report, this quote may help clarify our ability (or lack of same) to successfully collect on the warranty, "Observations relate only to the conditions apparent on the day of inspection. This is only a 'general inspection' (their quotes) and therefore is not technically exhaustive, and will not reveal all defects or conditions." I guess I should have been a lawyer! You gotta love gray areas!!

We knew from walking around the house before purchasing that the systems appeared to be original. That's specifically why we insisted on the home warranty. Unfortunately, we didn't ask when last the system had been cleaned - our mistake!!!!! It appeared to be working properly and did so for the first eight months we've been in the house.

I wanted to say thanks to all of you who responded. From what I've read here, there does appear to be differing standards, and points of view on the issue. I can relate....as my tax professor once said, "The answer to any yes or no question posed to the IRS is always "Quite clearly, it depends!"

Your probably better off going after the warranty company than the inspector. My guess is your signed an inspection agreement that probably eliminates any possibility of going after your inspector (providing they at least followed the SOPs for your area). Im curious why you didnt have the unit serviced prior to the start of summer? In Houston, I dont know many people that dont get their units serviced in April or May. We had a debate a few weeks ago about home warranties. Sounds like you were probably misled like one of my previous clients.


From American Home Shields website. Notice the little asterick at the end. Never could find what it means on their website.

My home systems and appliances are old. Does that matter to AHS?

No, the age of a home or its systems and appliances does not matter to AHS. We cover items that are in good working condition at the time you purchase the plan and properly maintained.* Plus, AHS covers all makes and models of appliances and systems.*

If you attend local inspector meetings, or even state association meetings, *you will know* what *most* (i.e., 50% or more) of the inspectors in your area do.

If you do not attend those meetings ... well ... apparently you are not out seeking what you should be knowing.

It really is that plain and simple.

And, if it is all taped and sealed up, don't you write it up as stating it was all taped and sealed and an a/c contractor should come out to clean it and inspect it?

If not, you should.

And those you should be opening up.

There you go, just what I said you should do.

NOW ... it is up to the buyer to follow your advice - right?

Which I covered with "Opening the cover and 'looking inside' and 'inspecting the motor' are not synonymous."

Sounds like you and I are really not only in the same book, and on the same page, but we are reading the same paragraph too ... except that I guess you would not have said it - but I did - because it needed to be said.

As Billy pointed out by referring to the SoP, and Nick pointed out by posting the referenced section " "A - The inspector is not required to: 3) Disassemble equipment by any means other than panels provided by the manufacturer for inspections and/or service." If you go by this, then the inspector should be opening access panels. "

*ALL* SoP's I've read basically say the same thing - "A - The inspector is not required to: 3) Disassemble equipment by any means other than panels provided by the manufacturer for inspections and/or service."

There is a big difference between "disassembling equipment" and "removing a panel provided by the manufacturer for inspection and service".

So, I repeat, the home inspector "should" always open the cover and look inside.

With the obvious exception being as you stated, when "HVAC techs have come in and taped and mastic-ed the units up.", with your addition of "As far as not being able to access a unit properly I will always write it up to be serviced and cleaned for that fact."

Now, if that home inspector DID NOT open the cover, and DID NOT call for that cleaning and servicing, DID HE really do his client justice?

In my opinion - No, he did not do his client justice. He did not do what he was hired to do. He opted for the 'soft-sell' way out.

Do you agree with that?

How many others agree with that?

Disagree with that?

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Removing a panel which was put there for inspection and service is not 'disassembling' the unit.

SoPs are just that, as you said, regardless of what other inspectors do. SoPs are "REQUIRED MINIMUMS", when you inspect a NEW HOME, do you expect to find the builder did everything to MINIMUM? No. You would pooh-pah the builder for building a minimum home. Why should a home inspector be treated any differently?

Minimums? That's not what you get up in the mornings and broadcast to the world about 'Today, I am going to meet my required minimum standards.' - okay, what about yesterday and the day before? Did you do less?

No, like code for builders, SoP for home inspectors are what you are expected to do ... minimum ... like it or not ... you agreed to do *at least that much*, that is nothing to beat your chest about, you HAD TO do at least that much.

No one said anyone had to, or would be expected to.

Now, though, back to the 50% plus factor ... if you ever go to court, two thing will first be looked at:

1) Did you *at least* do what the SoP requires you do to?

2) Did you *at least* do what 50% plus one of the other inspectors in your area do? That is the established "standard of care" for your profession in your area. Do less and you will be treated as less than average. Do you want to be considered as 'doing less than average' work? You will likely lose when you go to court if you chose that as your business model.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

My thoughts on the warranty company is ...

(had to delete them, this is a public board and my comments had to be suitable for such )

... warranty companies are notorious for denying claims for any reason they can come up with, however, ...

You need to review your warranty carefully, as *they* accepted the warranted items condition when *they* accepted the premium payment. Had *they* done an independent inspection, *they* would have then had the opportunity to deny coverage, returning the premium, not issuing the policy. *They* did not do that, therefore, *they* accepted the condition as "warrantable" and issued the coverage.

Those rip off companies count on basically two things: 1) that you will give in and accept their rejection of your claim, and, 2) that your cost to get an attorney to whip their butts will be more than your cost to 'just go ahead and pay for the replacement yourself'.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )