I just wanted to thank a few new members who are HVAC techs and otherwise knowledgeable in that field for joining us from the HVAC forum.

Thank you guys.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

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Thanks Jerry, it's an honor to be here and be able to share trade info between us folks, I personally think this has been a long time coming and I really think this will be a Blessing to all of us here. Trust me there has been a lot of times I wished I could have come here and posted a question to verify something a HI wrote up on a job and to see if he was within his bounds or he was going off the deep end, Jerry the feeling is mutual and may this be a beginning of a great relationship between all trades.

Ditto
The more the merrier.

Thanks for the nice welcome, one thing about information is that it's a two way street.

All involved in this will learn something.

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Measured Performance more than just a buzzword

Hey Mr. Bill and David... Welcome.

I welcome the feed back and opportunity for advancing the profession as it relates to your field. One of the previous statements was right (on the HVAC forum)... there are absolutely some yaa-hoos doing inspections. But, by and large, the ones who spend their time advancing their knowledge and building good networking relationships to draw from others experiences and tradesmen, are the ones/type you will find on this board and GENERALLY other boards like it.

Just as there are with every profession, there are those in the inspection community who think the public is there for the fleecing and look at becoming an inspector as an opportunity to make whatever they can and as fast as they can. Those bastards have a short life in this business and generally, those of us who can... help expedite that process.

With your help, we can all better service the folks who entrust us with their families well-being.

Glad to have you aboard and look forward to your contributions.

Richard Rushing

Greetings, new members. I come in peace. Though I make every effort to always provide a worthwhile and comprehensive Inspection report, I have come to accept that I will never know as much as the better specialists know. So I'm really looking forward to the benefit of your collective expertise.

Until I get my HVAC license, I will continue to include the following in every report. It's there even when my Inspection has determined that the system will need replacement. If you see errors, or ommissions, or needed additions please let me know. It is exactly as it appears on each report, to include bold and underline.
.................................................. .............................................
IMPORTANT NOTICE ABOUT HVAC INSPECTIONS:
You must be aware that all facets of this inspection are based upon visual observations. There are a number of important aspects of HVAC inspections that this inspection will not reveal. It requires a licensed HVAC specialist to determine weather the unit is correctly sized for the house. Correct sizing is a calculated value, not a subjective opinion. Further, routing of ducts and correct sizing of return air and distribution air are calculated items. Inspections of heat exchangers, internal wiring, and A/C evaporator coils remain the responsibility of licensed HVAC professionals.
You will receive as much information as is possible from me today. However, for a complete evaluation of the system and an opinion concerning continued performance, the opinion of a licensed HVAC specialist is always recommended. This opinion should be based upon his/her actual inspection and service, not from an estimate given concerning specific deficiencies this report may reveal.
.................................................. .................................................. ....................
As we all welcome you we would also welcome specialists from every discipline. We HI's sincerely try not to discriminate. We also "get on the last nerves" of plumbers, electricians, appliance repair persons, siding installers, structural engineers.... you get the point. To that purpose, help us to help ourselves by recommending this site to the best of each of these professionals in your respective areas.

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The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
- Paul Fix

[quote=Thom Walker;4620]It's there even when my Inspection has determined that the system will need replacement...

How do HI's determine when a system needs replaced?
.................................................. .................................................. .................

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Chris Ethridge
HVAC tech

Great to have you all here. Now, what would the proper distance be between a return and supply register installed in a bedroom ceiling.

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Some systems are so obvious that no special knowledge is needed. Severe corrosion of key components leaps to mind. Visible fungus and or mold throughout the system might call for replacement. I might think about it where exposed and deteriorated asbestos ducts are visible.

I suppose by some stretch of the imagination, all defects could be repaired. But it seems intuitive that when repair of the deficiencies would equal or exceed the cost of a replacement unit, replacement is justified. And it seems intuitive that when the housing for the condensing unit is so badly rusted that the cooling fins are sitting on the pad (or the ground) that replacement might be called for.

Some systems are so badly installed that they present serious risks to the structures, and most important, to its occupants. The ONLY option is replacement. Perhaps the equipment can be saved, but installation has to start again at square one.

Because I ALWAYS use the statement attached in the last post, most of the time my Clients do have a licensed HVAC person verify (or potentially refute) what I have said when issues are significant. And most of the time they, not the seller, pay the guy. I suggest that they do it that way and I offer to reimburse them if the HVAC licensee determines that I have exaggerated my findings and is willing to put it in writing. The only caveat to that offer is that they not use the company that has been servicing the system for the current owner. So far, I haven't had any reimbursement requests.

I'm working on ten years in this business and had 24 years experience in the restoration of older homes before starting this business. The oldest was 1870. So I have a certain level of confidence regarding when I recommend replacement rather than repairs of most components of a home.

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The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
- Paul Fix

Thom,

Your buddy above (Chris) was throwing some of the same stones your direction on another thread...
HI bashing

Rich

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"If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?"
Richard Rushing, HCRI
Duncanville, Tx.

Thank you for the warm welcome.

Hopefully bridges haven't yet been burnt, or will be burnt between the HI's and us HVAC guys. Like everything in the world there are those who speak before thinking and get everyone all worked into a frenzy.

I personally tend to look at things from a different angle (backwards and upside down) so I can be ready to answer any question that arises. Sometime I succeed others I fail, I am only human.

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Stupid should hurt!

Welcome to Inspection News. I'm a regular reader here, and I hope I'll be learning a great deal from your comments.

My first question: from the HVAC tech's perspective, how should a HI write a recommendation for an annual inspection to insure that all safety concerns are addressed?

For example, here in Chicago it's not uncommon for HIs to find obvious venting issues (rusted thorough, sections not properly connected, vent loose at the connection to the chimney, damper inoperative, etc.) on a furnace on boiler with several years of "yearly service" (sometimes by more than one company) noted on the service tag.

I very much doubt all these techs were incompetent or careless - it looks to me like they just did not consider inspection of the vent piping within the scope of their "annual inspection". (And it may not have helped that the homeowner or management company was probably looking for the lowest price for the work).

As a HI I don't like to write a recommendation for an inspection that may not correct (or at least identify) such problems, but I also don't want to find myself in the position of telling HVAC techs (who generally know more than I do about the system) "how to do their job" - especially if it's not completely clear what I'm recommending.

So what I'm looking for is some boiler-plate comprehensive enough so that the inspection will cover the system from the union on the gas line to the vent's connection to the chimney, written in "HAVC-techease" so that it's clear what I'm recommending, and in a style that more likely to elicit cooperation than annoyance.

So I'm wondering, if you were trying to explain to a HVAC tech just starting on the job what such an inspection should include, how would you put it?

Are you looking for anything specific that states a required distance or opinions?

Was there a complaint about this particular install?

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Measured Performance more than just a buzzword

Well we don't see hardly any boilers in KY on the residential side but what I would recommend for any fuel burning appliance is a good thorough combustion test along with draft testing.

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Measured Performance more than just a buzzword

I'm Glad you HVAC guy's are here. I know just enough to get me in trouble
So far so good, when I write something up you guys don't have a problem with it.
I would like to know though is what exactly you guys look at when you do a yearly contract?
I have on numerous times seen systems that have been just serviced with rusted through flues, leaking ducts, Blocked condensation pipes where it was running out of the bottom, etc. Not trying to be a butt just curious of the routine. I know there are drive by techs just like inspectors.

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Mike Schulz License 393
Affordable Home Inspections
www.houseinspections.com

We are in the same boat Mike I know just enough to get myself in trouble as well.

I know what you are talking about with the blow & go PM contracts being performed by some companies, most times it is due to the fact that no type of checklist is being utilized.

Funny you should mention flues being rusted most times the combustion side is completely ignored as there is very little training available on it.

The usual school of thought is blue flames, no cracks in the heat exchanger & smoke goes up the draft hood all is good to go.
I wish it were that simple.

There are different levels that can be gone over on a PM but many basics should be covered, we also try to include the duct system in our PM's as this is a huge source of work for us.
Correcting duct system deficiencies that is.

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Measured Performance more than just a buzzword

Don't know about any distance but I sure would at least have swapped them around if we would have done the job. I would have the supply over the fan and the return over there were the supply is now. I am guessing they have some sort of "media filter system" "Air Bear etc." at the furnace because I do not see a filter at the room return looks like a stamp face grille.

yes i get wond up a little, and i dont know how to type. i relly look forwrd to talking with yall about hvac issues. sorry for the attitude. i hope this website will help me understand HIs train of thought better. i really do. i have a long way to go with everything in life including my attitude so if you will help me with that i will be more than happy to share my humble knowledge with anyone who wants to listen. again sorry for the attitude

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Chris Ethridge
HVAC tech