Results 1 to 42 of 42
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    McKinney Texas
    Posts
    475

    Default Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Ever had to pay for something you didn't break? I have....$262 yesterday on AC unit that stopped working on the inspeciton. AC service guy said the Chinese made capacitor failed. Back timing for me because home owner blamed me. No way to win so I paid up.

    Similar Threads:
    2018 ASHI InspectionWorld

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring City/Surrounding Philadelphia area
    Posts
    3,473

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Gene, did you do any kind of specialized testing of the AC system that you feel may have caused the system to stop working at the time?

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    McKinney Texas
    Posts
    475

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Nick, no. I just operated it from the thermostat. Switching from cool to heat and then to emergency heat. This was an all electric house with a heat pump. Just thermostat operation was all that was done. I have seen capactors fail on other units, including my own house. All "Made in China" capacitors.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring City/Surrounding Philadelphia area
    Posts
    3,473

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Seems to me the homeowner should be apologizing with a $262 check made payable to you since the AC tech said it was just product failure. Personally, I'd have to hear from a professional or see proof that I somehow caused the damage before agreeing to pony up for that.

    I'd be looking to get that money back Gene.

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    McKinney Texas
    Posts
    475

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    I did it to keep my reputation among the local Agents because rumors spread like wildfire among Agents....as in "Gene broke the AC and left the poor widow to deal with it"...type rumors. I chose to lose the battle, not the war....


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring City/Surrounding Philadelphia area
    Posts
    3,473

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    There's another reason to remove the realtor influence from the inspection process.

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Rockwall Texas
    Posts
    4,519

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Gene, this same thing happened to me years ago and I felt obligated to pay for it.

    The HVAC contractor did tell the homeowners that I personally had nothing to do with it, it was just bad timing I was there when it failed.

    They called me the next morning and told me they'd leave me a check in a envelope taped to the front door for me to come by and pick it up. They were more than apologetic and even called the agent back they had called and went off on about how I had screwed up there air conditioner.


    rick


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    McKinney Texas
    Posts
    475

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Same thing happened to me but I doubt I will get a check back. Ha.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Lake Barrington, IL
    Posts
    1,363

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    I once broke the plywood under a bench seat padding when I put my knee on it to open the window behind the seat. The company I worked for at the time paid for the repair even thought the seller acknowledged that they knew the plywood was only 1/4" and was not designed to carry any weight. Personally I would not have been so forgiving to payout but it always comes down to a business and personal decision.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,365

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    One of our guys once had a screwdriver hanging out of his pocket and stood up from kneeling next to a leather chair.... ripped about a 1 foot gash in it. The chair looked like something you could get a garage sale for $20 but the lady insisted it was some type of antique and we settled on $200.

    We've paid for a couple garbage disposals over the years... for some reason people get really cranky about those - maybe I just have bad luck.

    We gave someone $100 once for a fridge full of food because of a tripped GFI in the garage that we didn't reset.

    Just this last winter I paid $80 to a seller because one of the electric heaters was left on in a vacant house. By the time they got the bill and realized it, it was half way through the next billing cycle. I'm still not convinced I left it on but there was at least a chance. Funny thing on that one is the listing agent was so impressed that I paid without complaining that he's used me about 1/2 dozen inspections since then - that's about the best $80 I've ever spent on advertising.

    To me these things are inevitable and are just the cost of doing business. Honestly, I'm surprised more stuff doesn't break when we're there just because of bad timing.


  11. #11
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    I paid 500 toward a new electric panel for a woman after 3 to 4 months of crying on the phone to me a year after an inspection. I even sent the original picture of the panel as it was the day of the inspection. That was the first and last time I will pay for anything.

    Anything stops working when I am at the inspection...uh....so....and?

    Last edited by Ted Menelly; 08-07-2010 at 09:42 PM.

  12. #12
    Elliot Franson's Avatar
    Elliot Franson Guest

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    I did it to keep my reputation among the local Agents because rumors spread like wildfire among Agents
    Mr. South: This is a deeply troubling issue for you considering your other profession, right?


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    356

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    "Nick, no. I just operated it from the thermostat. Switching from cool to heat and then to emergency heat. This was an all electric house with a heat pump. Just thermostat operation was all that was done. I have seen capactors fail on other units, including my own house. All "Made in China" capacitors."

    Gene, it sounds like from what you said that this was a heat pump system. If so, you should not run it in the cool mode and then the heat mode as it can very well damage the system. It is ok to run it in the cool mode and then the EM Heat mode as that would be the back up system for the heat. If you ran it in cool and then heat and then em heat, that means you reversed the flow of the coolant before the system had a chance to stabalize. Lucky you did not ruin the compressor.

    If it weren't for lawyers, we would never need them.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    356

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    On the subject, I did have a cranky old lady try to make me pay for a cracked window that I never even touched. When I saw it was cracked, I did not even try to open it. She was there during the inspection and was going on about how home inspectors are a bunch of quacks etc. When I was doing my walk through and said the window was broken, she went off saying she just cleaned the windows the day before and none were broken. She said I had to have broken the window yada yada. I was so disgusted with her attitude that I just stood my ground and basically told her to piss up a rope. I haven't seen that agent again, but I don't care. I was not going to be held liable for something that I knew for a fact that I did not do.

    If it weren't for lawyers, we would never need them.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Posts
    4,170

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Bombardiere View Post
    Gene, it sounds like from what you said that this was a heat pump system. If so, you should not run it in the cool mode and then the heat mode as it can very well damage the system. It is ok to run it in the cool mode and then the EM Heat mode as that would be the back up system for the heat. If you ran it in cool and then heat and then em heat, that means you reversed the flow of the coolant before the system had a chance to stabalize. Lucky you did not ruin the compressor.
    I beg to differ Frank. Heat pumps switch from heat to cool and back again every time they go through defrost, no harm, no foul. They are designed for this.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    356

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    I thought we were not supposed to run a heat pump in summer temperature due to high head pressure etc. I am not claiming to be an expert on heat pumps, but that what I was taught.

    If it weren't for lawyers, we would never need them.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Posts
    4,170

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Bombardiere View Post
    I thought we were not supposed to run a heat pump in summer temperature due to high head pressure etc. I am not claiming to be an expert on heat pumps, but that what I was taught.
    Yep, I can agree with that premise since it is possible to damage a compressor due to high heat/ head pressure due to operating outside the design parameters, but the switching from one mode to another too quickly is not a problem.

    I will operate in the heat mode momentarily even in the summer but only long enough to verify that the reversing valve is working and the emergency heat switch shuts down the outdoor compressor since temperature splits are pretty meaningless with the outdoor ambient so far out of wack.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    2,303

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Bombardiere View Post
    I thought we were not supposed to run a heat pump in summer temperature due to high head pressure etc. I am not claiming to be an expert on heat pumps, but that what I was taught.
    The high pressure will be at the indoor coil, not out in the sun. It is very unlikely there will be a high pressure problem. Besides, if the heatpump does not have a High Pressure Limit Switch, then the mfg. should, or will not be in business! You can't hurt a properly installed heatpump using the thermostat!

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    South-West Michigan
    Posts
    469

    Post Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    There's another reason to remove the realtor influence from the inspection process.
    Amen to that. There is no sensible reason to pay for equipment failure. There are plenty of reasons not to pay for equipment failure.

    Randall Aldering GHI BAOM MSM
    Housesmithe Inspection
    www.housesmithe.com

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Rockwall Texas
    Posts
    4,519

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene South View Post
    Ever had to pay for something you didn't break? I have....$262 yesterday on AC unit that stopped working on the inspeciton. AC service guy said the Chinese made capacitor failed. Back timing for me because home owner blamed me. No way to win so I paid up.
    I have found the Problem Solving Flowsheet for when such matters occur.
    Beware. Some foul language is present.

    rick

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Muncie, Indiana
    Posts
    78

    Cool Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    After several years of reading about others misfortunes, I still agree with Jerry P when he says it "Failed under testing". If it breaks when I use it, it failed when I tested it and let the sellers know it didn't pass inspection.
    Many times the sellers will know its defective before we come in and figure its a way to get it replaced. Why should we pay for something unless we didn't do it right? I learned a long time ago not to trust the realtors or anything they try to blame us for.


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    2,446

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Rick - Very funny - and oh so true.


  23. #23
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Gainey View Post
    After several years of reading about others misfortunes, I still agree with Jerry P when he says it "Failed under testing". If it breaks when I use it, it failed when I tested it and let the sellers know it didn't pass inspection.
    Many times the sellers will know its defective before we come in and figure its a way to get it replaced. Why should we pay for something unless we didn't do it right? I learned a long time ago not to trust the Realtors or anything they try to blame us for.

    Just had a Realtor call me yesterday about a leak he had repaired for a client and said he already paid for it so just send him a check because he told the seller "no problem, Ted will pay for it"

    I had a picture under that sink and there was no leak or signs of past leaks and had a picture of the water actually running in that sink.....NO LEAK. First off they should have called me not the Realtor and I even followed up with them and everything was fine and this was a week after they moved in. Obviously the leak happened after my follow up so instead of calling me they called the Realtor.

    He started to give me his address. I laughed whole heatedly and asked why I needed his address. He said to mail the check for 275.00 for the plumbers bill. I laughed again and told him it wasn't happening.

    Needless to say I will be receiving no more referrals from that Realtor. This is the second Realtor in 6 months that tried that. They truly believe that if you still want referrals you will pay. This house sold for 450,000.00 and the other one sold for 375,000.00 ish. We all know what their commission was and what my puny inspection fee was.

    I love referrals folks but enough is enough. If you turn on an HVAC system and it burns up.....OH well. A garage door collapses over your head just by hitting the button to close it (that happened) ...OH well.

    I mentioned above about the crying lady that called me for three months about the panel that needed replacing....that was a year after the inspection and I had pictures. I paid to get her to leave me alone. Not even half but it should have been nothing at all and that is the last time I have or will pay for anything.

    Sorry. I do not work for nothing and will not be held hostage over future referrals. The Realtors want to pay. Let them have at it.

    As far as Gene's situation, if he did not pay then he would get no more referrals because his name will get passed around that office....I think it is a damn crime. He also admitted guilt of some kind and now will be held to that for ever and maybe even used by another Realtor in the future. I can tell him and everyone else this. I lost a couple Realtors from that office about the Electric panel situation and should have not paid and let it follow thru and reported the Realtor to TREC for bad mouthing me to other Realtors....and I did pay...and I missed nothing and had proof. God only knows how many future referrals from other Realtors in that office I lost from being bad mouthed from that one Realtor.

    The Realtors should not be allowed to refer any one inspector or even a group of inspectors. The clients are grown ups and can find us as they find any other business instead of being directed to their prize inspector. I think a Realtor referring inspectors is far more unethical than the inspector pricing work that he finds needed at an inspection. The Realtor has this client hostage in their office or in the home. The folks are busy with work and such and don't want to deal with it so they either get the name from a Realtor or have the Realtor set it up for them. An inspector has the client, the buyers agent, listing agent, seller and quotes from others standing between him and actually getting and doing the work not to mention it is not even the buyers home yet.

    My feeling about Realtor referrals (and I have many that do refer me) is it should be illegal. The first time the Realtor is caught referring a particular individual or group of inspectors their license should be temporarily suspended. The second time they should lose their license to sell Real Estate.

    We all know that it would never fly. To many inspectors get a good portion of their business from Realtors. Some get almost all of their business from direct Realtor Referrals. We see Genes concerns with losing referrals from that office. They should have absolutely no say.

    Enough of the rant. Time to go to work. I hope you all have a great day.


  24. #24
    Eric Shuman's Avatar
    Eric Shuman Guest

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Last year I had to buy a home seller a keg of beer. They were out of town during the inspection and had a keg-0-rator in the garage. They claimed I had unplugged the keg to test a receptacle and never plugged it back in and the beer went bad before they came back to town.

    First off, I do not unplug anything other than occasionally a lamp to test receptacles, ever. I certainly do not unplug refrigerators or anything that might nont start back up or might cause damage to the equipment. Ever. Period.

    Second, for all I know, that keg was empty, close to empty, or non-exisitant.

    Third, I called out some significant defects on the place which the buyer was using as negotiating fodder.

    However, it was the old "Last man in..." thing, although that really couldn't be proved since the house was still being shown by realtors. The buyer was also present and poking around in the garage while I wasn't in there. I paid for the keg ($165.00) but I protested to the seller and agents. Buyer's agent agreed with me but was happy I paid for it. Still haven't gotten any more referrals from that agent though.

    Still kicking myself for not demanding to inspect the keg before I paid.


  25. #25
    Ken Bates's Avatar
    Ken Bates Guest

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    My state is the only one that forbids broker referrals. So we don't have to suck up to brokers to get work.

    I have never paid for any claim. I had one situation where the broker was the seller and said he would blackball me because I would not pay for water damage caused by a leaking radiator valve. I told him to eat s**t.

    A few days ago a furnace did not respond to the t-stat call for heat after I turned the tech switch back on and the put the panel back on the fan chamber in that order. (this probably created a soft lockout which lasted longer than I expected -- 5+ minutes)

    So, I got anxious and told the broker to call the contractors HVAC guy as this was new unoccupied property and the temps were going to be in the low teens and it was late on Friday afternoon. It was a crappy install with poorly routed wires, etc.

    Right away she said I broke it. But I was not going to cave and said that I did not cause the problem. There was no way I was going to pay for a repair visit as I knew what I was doing and did not cause the problem. In the end the furnace started on its own. This sucker had a soft-lockout that was longer than the typical computer model used in most furnaces. I was relieved but I said from the onset that I did not cause the problem and I would not pay for a tech.

    I have never paid for a claim and never will unless I caused the problem and neither should you. Illegitimi non carborundum!!


  26. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    WESTMINSTER CO
    Posts
    1,089

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    ken

    update your profile with where you live, that would help

    thanks

    cvf


  27. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,777

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Shuman View Post
    Last year I had to buy a home seller a keg of beer. They were out of town during the inspection and had a keg-0-rator in the garage. They claimed I had unplugged the keg to test a receptacle and never plugged it back in and the beer went bad before they came back to town.

    First off, I do not unplug anything other than occasionally a lamp to test receptacles, ever. I certainly do not unplug refrigerators or anything that might nont start back up or might cause damage to the equipment. Ever. Period.

    Second, for all I know, that keg was empty, close to empty, or non-exisitant.

    Third, I called out some significant defects on the place which the buyer was using as negotiating fodder.

    However, it was the old "Last man in..." thing, although that really couldn't be proved since the house was still being shown by realtors. The buyer was also present and poking around in the garage while I wasn't in there. I paid for the keg ($165.00) but I protested to the seller and agents. Buyer's agent agreed with me but was happy I paid for it. Still haven't gotten any more referrals from that agent though.

    Still kicking myself for not demanding to inspect the keg before I paid.
    You did not go to inspect the keg (with your own mug)??? After significant testing of old beer (may have to call in other testers for verification) offer to take keg with you and have quantity left replaced, either by getting a full keg and drink it down (1st choice) or just prorate the cost of amount in the keg. Where are they buying the beer? Haven't paid for a keg in years but going cost is less than $100. Where was you head? Certainly not in a cold mug. You must have been wrapped up in the problem and not the solution.


  28. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Greenville, N.C.
    Posts
    254

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    If you do this long enough, you'll have a story. I once paid $1500.00 for a roof and was glad to do it. I got lazy and deserved the whacking. 15 years later and I check every roof plane or mark it inaccessible.
    But I will never pay money just because.
    My standard line is have the specialist put in writing that the HI caused the problem and document. And never, ever pay for a repair that you were not given the opportunity to review and repair yourself.

    JLMathis


  29. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,777

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey L. Mathis View Post
    If you do this long enough, you'll have a story. I once paid $1500.00 for a roof and was glad to do it. I got lazy and deserved the whacking. 15 years later and I check every roof plane or mark it inaccessible.
    But I will never pay money just because.
    My standard line is have the specialist put in writing that the HI caused the problem and document. And never, ever pay for a repair that you were not given the opportunity to review and repair yourself.

    JLMathis

    Jeffery, I think you would have gone and tested the beer and would have wanted the opportunity to correct....

    What did you miss for $1500? Something bigger than small, but what? 15 years ago $1500 was almost real money. Today it would be $3500.


  30. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Greenville, N.C.
    Posts
    254

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    If you do this long enough, you'll have a story. I once paid $1500.00 for a roof and was glad to do it. I got lazy and deserved the whacking. 15 years later and I check every roof plane or mark it inaccessible.
    But I will never pay money just because.
    My standard line is have the specialist put in writing that the HI caused the problem and document. And never, ever pay for a repair that you were not given the opportunity to review and repair yourself.

    JLMathis


  31. #31
    Ken Bates's Avatar
    Ken Bates Guest

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    I can only speak for my state (Massachusetts) ( We have more Dentists and Attorneys per capita than any other state and we used to be very blue- but Martha Coakley is UGLY and she went on vacation just before elections and Scott Brown R went to town with his truck BS and he is handsome.)

    Nonetheless we have a lot of public and private and business corruption and a good deal of it in our judicial system. Whenever I have to fill out the response for jury duty I state my CONTEMPT for our adversarial and corrupt system. ( I take refuge in our Federal laws that enforce Constitutional Bill of Rights--e.g. freedom of speech ).

    It seems that most inspectors have a predisposition to fear the Judiciary.
    They are quick to cave!! Inspectors are good people by nature. They are the Lambs and some of their clients are the Wolves.

    The facts are that it is very hard to prove any claim in any court and inspectors should fight back by not showing up at the initial Small Claims court proceedings and force the Plaintifs to appeal to the highter courts.
    I.e. Even if your client prevails and wins a judgement in his favor in Small Claims you can fail to pay and force him to spend lots of time and money to bring the case to the higher court.


  32. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Zeeland Michigan
    Posts
    143

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Ken: The facts are that it is very hard to prove any claim in any court and inspectors should fight back by not showing up at the initial Small Claims court proceedings and force the Plaintifs to appeal to the highter courts.

    This doesn't work well in Michigan. If you don't show up at small claims court you will get a judgement against you. The court sends this to your credit report. Wheather its a $10 judgement or a $1000. your credit rating will drop to the point of no loans or credit availabe. You can settle the judgement and it will remain on your credit report for a number of years. My wife has a beauty salon and was taken to small claims court. Bad deal overall. Better to show up and not accept the proceedings and be elevated to regular court and see if they want to pay for lawyers.

    If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest
    Benjamin Franklin

  33. #33
    Ken Bates's Avatar
    Ken Bates Guest

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    In my state (Mass.) there are also default judgments. HOWEVER, if you can't prove the defendant was notified to appear then you have wasted time and money.

    Most courts just send a summons via ordinary mail. (one can deny receipt)
    Some plaintifs use certified delivery by the post office. (Savvy people never sign for certified mail, as 99% of the time it's disadventageous)

    So the next route is to hire someone to serve the summons. Ever see those scenarious in old Hollywood movies where the defendants keeps avoiding the process server. Works in real life.

    So the defendant must return to court and "beg" the clerk for a "Show Cause" summons. One can still duck that. When and if the defendant finally appears he can..............) (I was once contacted by phone by an attorney practicing in the state of Wisconsin because she had her lackeys do extensive googling and found some comments by me in this site's archives, namely that I was an evaluator for the American who was licensed to manufacture Telestep ladders; the genuine original Swedish telescoping ladder.)

    Her intentions were not apparent at first but i realized that she was intent on summoning me to be a defendant in a civil suit for damages against my friend Lenny. I should have been reticent and had her pay for my travel expenses and then turn on her during my testimony. (So, one has to be careful what they say and I will say no more regarding civil litigations)

    One more thing: in my state one can ALWAYS appeal a small claims judgement in a higher court. Small claims never enforce verdicts in my state.

    Of course if the case is going to a District Court then other considerations must be entertained.

    PS: If I ever screw up I will gladly and apologetically compensate whomever was harmed. That's why I have E&O insurance. Keep in mind that most claims are frivolous and fall below the deductible and most insurance companies will "throw you under the bus."

    Best of luck and always try to concentrate on the big stuff and don't get distracted by the small stuff. A few weeks ago I missed a major structural defect that my client pointed out to me during the inspection. The reason I missed it was defensible due to lack of visibility and also I was focusing on numerous other but less costly defects. (it was a horrible dump that should be torn down and I will never accept those jobs anymore--too much at stake with high risks for the inspector plus a report that will take forever to prepare!)

    Last edited by Ken Bates; 02-05-2011 at 02:31 PM.

  34. #34
    Ken Bates's Avatar
    Ken Bates Guest

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    I should have included this.

    I carry this with me and will just hand it to the pain in the derriere and preserve my dignity by refusing to entertain taurean scatology from iceholes.

    Post hoc ergo propter hoc
    Post hoc ergo propter hoc, Latin for "after this, therefore because of this", is a logical fallacy (of the questionable cause variety) which states, "Since that event followed this one, that event must have been caused by this one." It is often shortened to simply post hoc and is also sometimes referred to as false cause, coincidental correlation or correlation not causation. It is subtly different from the fallacy cum hoc ergo propter hoc, in which the chronological ordering of a correlation is insignificant.
    Post hoc is a particularly tempting error because temporal sequence appears to be integral to causality. The fallacy lies in coming to a conclusion based solely on the order of events, rather than taking into account other factors that might rule out the connection. Most familiarly, many superstitious beliefs and magical thinking arise from this fallacy.


  35. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,777

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bates View Post
    I should have included this.

    I carry this with me and will just hand it to the pain in the derriere and preserve my dignity by refusing to entertain taurean scatology from iceholes.

    Post hoc ergo propter hoc
    Post hoc ergo propter hoc, Latin for "after this, therefore because of this", is a logical fallacy (of the questionable cause variety) which states, "Since that event followed this one, that event must have been caused by this one." It is often shortened to simply post hoc and is also sometimes referred to as false cause, coincidental correlation or correlation not causation. It is subtly different from the fallacy cum hoc ergo propter hoc, in which the chronological ordering of a correlation is insignificant.
    Post hoc is a particularly tempting error because temporal sequence appears to be integral to causality. The fallacy lies in coming to a conclusion based solely on the order of events, rather than taking into account other factors that might rule out the connection. Most familiarly, many superstitious beliefs and magical thinking arise from this fallacy.
    Ken, it seems like you were awake in the Logic course that you took. Very good... I had a class of 45 of which 15 dropped and 20 failed and the remaining had A and Bs. If you get it, it sticks. Else you are just lost.


  36. #36
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    Ken, it seems like you were awake in the Logic course that you took. Very good... I had a class of 45 of which 15 dropped and 20 failed and the remaining had A and Bs. If you get it, it sticks. Else you are just lost.
    35 0f the 45 either dropped out or failed ???????


  37. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,777

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    35 0f the 45 either dropped out or failed ???????
    Ted, yes. The Prof teaching was really demanding and tough. After 1st test he spent an hour berating the class on how bad we all had done. After that the class started to diminish quickly. I had had him before and had an understanding of how he taught and tested and hung in to the end. Had to reevaluate my study method. His testing was an eye opener to your understand of the material, it clicked or not. 2+2 must = 4 and close did not count. Questions were essay answer for the most part. He wanted to see if you really knew the concepts. Oddly enough we became good friends by the end of the class. He had respect for those who did well in his Logic class. Guy spoke and read fluently 7 languages, also taught Philosophy.


  38. #38
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    Ted, yes. The Prof teaching was really demanding and tough. After 1st test he spent an hour berating the class on how bad we all had done. After that the class started to diminish quickly. I had had him before and had an understanding of how he taught and tested and hung in to the end. Had to reevaluate my study method. His testing was an eye opener to your understand of the material, it clicked or not. 2+2 must = 4 and close did not count. Questions were essay answer for the most part. He wanted to see if you really knew the concepts. Oddly enough we became good friends by the end of the class. He had respect for those who did well in his Logic class. Guy spoke and read fluently 7 languages, also taught Philosophy.
    Well, you have to have respect him for his knowledge but sometimes it is not the entire class (or close to it) that has a learning or understanding problem. Sometimes the teacher may have to go back to school to be taught how to teach. That is a horrifying failure/drop out rate. It almost sounds as though "if you can put up with my arrogance and ignorance I will teach you well, son."

    "One can only be so full of themselves before they become full of it"

    I hate to automatically be down on the man by reading a short paragraph from one individual but I have known a few folks like that in my time.

    It almost sounds like a father saying "You will respect me" Instead of the father earning his respect. He was teaching a logic class. It is not very logical to push 75 percent of his class out the door. It would be more logical to think logically and realize that his logic could be passed on to many more if he put a different curve in his reasoning and understanding about others abilities.

    A father may teach his children by beating them half to death but the scars last a life time and those children pass those memories on to their children. 75% of those children either become withdrawn and meek or hardened and hateful as in your class. Then there are the few that make it out relatively unscathed and actually learn from it.


  39. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,777

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Ted,
    Your are wrong. The course was a tough one. Many of the students were not willing to invest the time that was required. Many thought that you could "bull s---" your way through an answer on test. As they figured that out more left seeing the hand writing on the wall. Others just didn't get the the process of logical argument. It was like learning a new language, something like learning computer programing language. Put a comma where a semicolon is required and its wrong, code will cause a fatal crash.

    The guy way demanding and rigid. Good experience for later in life for dealing with right and wrong. Where almost would just not cut it.


  40. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Hill, Iowa
    Posts
    140

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Had a Realtor beg me for an inspection, fast,,,,hurry,,,, when I was done I told her the A/C temperature drop was only 13 degrees and she needed an HVAC professional to service her system. When I delivered her report she ran to the parking lot, said she has no time to go over the report. Then she called a week later and said her A/C system has a serious, serious problem. It needed freon, the A/C tech charged her $175 to charge her system. She wanted me to pay for it, she said don't you have insurance. I told her I would NOT pay for it and that the report says she needed an HVAC professional to service her A/C. She was ticked, said she would email every Realtor in town and tell everyone that I wouldn't pay for the repair. She was wrong and yet she still wanted me to pay for it. I will not pay for anything that I didn't break. I did pay for a ceiling fan once when the kitchen cabinet door open into it and broke the fan, the home owner said, OH I should have told you that the fan is too close to the door. I paid for a new fan. $50.00 and I installed it also.I am a former HVAC professional and I would not have paid for that HVAC repair. The capacitor was about $15-30 in cost so he charged an awful lot on money, my cost would have been, $75/hour plus the cap = about $100.00

    Last edited by Dan Hagman; 02-11-2011 at 11:53 AM.
    Dan Hagman
    ProSite Home Inspections
    Des Moines, Iowa

  41. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    South-West Michigan
    Posts
    469

    Exclamation Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    To answer the original question, no. If some thing breaks when tested, how can that be the home inspector's fault? Next, some one will suggest the home inspector build them a new house, if that hasn't already happened. Who cares what real estate agents think of home inspectors? I can count the honest and hard-working real estate agents that I have come across in 30 years on one hand after having two digits shot off in a firefight. Real estate agents who run off at the mouth are liable to get sued. They don't seem to understand their place, nor allow us to occupy ours.

    Randall Aldering GHI BAOM MSM
    Housesmithe Inspection
    www.housesmithe.com

  42. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Lake Barrington, IL
    Posts
    1,363

    Default Re: Ever had to pay for something you didn't break?

    Randy, To answer your question, I care what R.E. agents think of H.I.s. Of course there will be exceptions, but as a whole don't you think that a common respect should exist between agents and inspectors? I look at any agent as a top drawer person until they prove to be otherwise. If an agent gets upset with me I like to know why - did I mis-state something or was I mis-understood?

    Hopefully you've exaggerated the low number of agents that you like working with. I have found that there are many good ones out there who genuinely want honest reporting.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •