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Thread: I'm sooo MAD!

  1. #1
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    Default I'm sooo MAD!

    I'm so mad I could pinch nails off with my sphincter!!!

    Realtor emails request for inspections- at the end of email there is a list.
    Well let me show you the email:

    "Mr. XXXXX is the closing attorney at XXXXXXXXX
    This is what lender needs Click the Hyperlink below to link to and view property listing(s) of interest.

    Buyers name is XXXXX mail is XXXXXX phone number is XXXXXXXX
    Closing is Aug 15-26. We are trying to close anyone of those days. Talk with you later. and Thanks see below"

    -water test (bacteria, lead, and nitrates)

    -septic inspection

    -termite within 60 days of closing. (The one in the file looked like it was from last year as the only date I saw was 2010)

    Listing here.....

    Sincerely, "


    Sent the customer, Realtor and the attorney a copy of the invoice and the contract three days before the inspection.

    Received the signed contract back from the customer two days before the inspection.


    The next day the report is sent to the customer and the Realtor in PDF.

    This morning, the day after the report was sent, the Realtor emails me. "Did the customer call you and order an inspection? Cause I didn't! I only ordered pest, well,and septic!"

    She called me after I replied that the invoice and contract had been sent to everyone, and the signed contract had been returned. She said she didn't order a home inspection, that the customer had already had a home inspection done, and why would he need another one!

    Now says I did the inspection without being requested and I'm not getting paid.

    I have been giving the option to pay at closing for years, but this new economy is making me re think the wisdom. I now wish there was a law against anything but cold hard cash!

    2018 ASHI InspectionWorld
    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  2. #2
    C.Johnson's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    IMO, I see a mistake by both parties, but, if you have a signed contract stateing what you was doing (including home inspection) and what you was to be paid for then they should still have to pay. They should have looked over the contract you sent them before signing and not just assume it was what they wanted....


  3. #3

    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    I have been giving the option to pay at closing for years, but this new economy is making me re think the wisdom. I now wish there was a law against anything but cold hard cash!
    Wise old Chinese proverb: "No tickee no laundry". We used to invoice clients but wound up having to chase our checks. We switched to "pay to play" (please bring your check cash or money order to the inspection) and never had a problem after that. Never took credit cards.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    I never ask for payment, in large bold letters on my agreemnt it states:


    Reports are not released unless all fees are paid in full.

    Have never had a problem, and don't want one. Try collecting on a house that someone does not purchase... HA!

    When asked, I always state that I am not allowed to release a report until payment is received in full (I don't say it is my better judgement that does not allow it.)

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    I'd stop accepting payment at closing. Since payment wasn't due at the time of inspections, I can see how the error slipped through the cracks. But honestly Vern, I'd say you just have to bite the bullet on this. It sucks but according to that e-mail order your received, a home inspection was not requested so you can't expect the customer to pay for something they never ordered. Yes, it may have been on the contract and they may have signed the contract......but.......they never ordered the home inspection.

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

  6. #6
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    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    I always get the cheque before the client gets the report,saves a lot of grief trying to collect later,no problem if client wants to pay with credit card.


  7. #7
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    I'm so mad I could pinch nails off with my sphincter!!!

    Realtor emails request for inspections- at the end of email there is a list.
    Well let me show you the email:

    "Mr. XXXXX is the closing attorney at XXXXXXXXX
    This is what lender needs Click the Hyperlink below to link to and view property listing(s) of interest.

    Buyers name is XXXXX mail is XXXXXX phone number is XXXXXXXX
    Closing is Aug 15-26. We are trying to close anyone of those days. Talk with you later. and Thanks see below"

    -water test (bacteria, lead, and nitrates)

    -septic inspection

    -termite within 60 days of closing. (The one in the file looked like it was from last year as the only date I saw was 2010)

    Listing here.....

    Sincerely, "


    Sent the customer, Realtor and the attorney a copy of the invoice and the contract three days before the inspection.

    Received the signed contract back from the customer two days before the inspection.


    The next day the report is sent to the customer and the Realtor in PDF.

    This morning, the day after the report was sent, the Realtor emails me. "Did the customer call you and order an inspection? Cause I didn't! I only ordered pest, well,and septic!"

    She called me after I replied that the invoice and contract had been sent to everyone, and the signed contract had been returned. She said she didn't order a home inspection, that the customer had already had a home inspection done, and why would he need another one!

    Now says I did the inspection without being requested and I'm not getting paid.

    I have been giving the option to pay at closing for years, but this new economy is making me re think the wisdom. I now wish there was a law against anything but cold hard cash!

    I am extremely curious why anyone but the client would be ordering anything from you. If on occasion I get a referral from Realtor the only thing I receive is the clients information. I contact the client and set everything up. I could care less what a Realtor may want.

    I am assuming that the initial contact was from the Realtor as that is how it sounded and the only contact you had with the client was an email to the client so they could sign the contract.

    Also curious why you would send a copy of your contract with the client to the attorney and Realtor. They have nothing to do with the you and everything to do with the client. I will send an emailed copy of the inspection report to the Realtor if the client requests it. What you do with the client is all between you and the client.

    I hear this alot from many inspectors having the direct relationship with the Realtor and little to none initially with the client. I was wondering where all this came about cutting the client from the initial dealings. I do not blame you for being mad at the Realtor. The Realtor sounds like he/she is running the entire show.

    A Realtor has to do with past disclosure. What you have with your client is disclosure as in at the time of the inspection unless you inspected the home in the recent past then you would disclose items that you new about and were fixed (a positive) and items that are still not fixed (maybe a negative) but none the less your relationship with your client is just that, your relationship with the client. Not the Realtor or attorney. That is all the Realtors job and she is asking you to do it for her and setting up the movie time and having you bring the popcorn, how she wants and when she wants it. I am assuming you are a very busy inspector.

    It also sounds like the Realtor is mighty quick at throwing you under the bus. Lets see, you make 3 to 5 hundred and she makes ........ thousands, and controls the movie time and what movie you see.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    Since the customer agreed to the terms of the contract and signed it you have a strong hand to play. If they don't pay then you can send it to collections and take them to small claims court.

    Obviously this may cause some ill-will with the realtor and you have to weigh that against collecting for work done. Depending on your relationship with the realtor you may want to have a face to face meeting to negotiate a resolution before things get too ugly. Taking some money off the bill can make you look like a good guy and you will get the balance in a timely manner...

    //Rick

    Rick Bunzel
    WWW.PacCrestInspections.com
    360-588-6956

  9. #9
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    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    Buyers name is XXXXX mail is XXXXXX phone number is XXXXXXXX
    Closing is Aug 15-26. We are trying to close anyone of those days. Talk with you later. and Thanks see below"

    -water test (bacteria, lead, and nitrates)

    -septic inspection

    -termite within 60 days of closing.
    (The one in the file looked like it was from last year as the only date I saw was 2010)

    Listing here.....

    Sincerely, "
    Nowhere in what you've quoted is there an order for a home inspection, only water, septic, and termite. Cut your losses and move on.

    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
    Minnesota Home Inspectors LLC
    ASHI #242887 mnradontesting.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    I'm so mad I could pinch nails off with my sphincter!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    I'd say you just have to bite the bullet on this.
    He could bite it or he could just pinch it off.

    Sorry, Vern, I couldn't resist.
    But it looks like you made an assumption, and frankly, they don't need your inspection report. You might be able to adjust the invoice for the other work you did to compensate, but I'd forget about the time lost inspecting.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  11. #11
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    The problem lay with an assumption. The assumption being that the Realtor was ordering a home inspection and with it the rest of the goodies. That assumption was made because he is a *Home Inspector* first and all the rest second. He may have assumed wrong but none the less everyone read the contract (for what reason I know not) and the buyer signed the contract and in that contract the inspector had the listed items and of course the home inspection.

    The only problem with any of this is that the Realtor did all the ordering instead of the client. *No* client is that busy in life that he cannot do a 3 second search to find an inspector and a minute phone call to that inspector ordering what was needed. I hear about the clients being too busy everyday of the week from an inspector or Realtor or someone. Too busy for what. He is not ordering a pizza, front end alignment, flowers for the wife. He is buying a home worth tens and tens if not hundreds of thousands or at times millions of dollars ......... They don't have time for what.

    If this Realtor has such great respect for this (just being vague as to who. It could be a great number of inspectors) inspector you think she would peel some off the top of the multiple thou she/he is making and pay for this great respect in *her/his* choice in home inspectors.

    Reason number 10,480 for Realtors not referring inspectors. Or relationships formed so tightly with inspectors that the Realtor takes on the responsibility and tremendous need to be in control of the entire inspection process including the picking of the inspector and the ordering of inspections. She/he wants the entire sale to slide right into closing with out a hitch and they have control of the complete process. She/he probably picked the title company and Lawyer and more than likely the mortgage company as well, as in most cases. Is there any wonder what one of the greatest reasons there was such a massive housing crisis that continues today. No one had to do a damn thing to buy a home. They did not even do the looking. The Realtors did, and directed them to the homes instead of how it used to be, the clients finding homes they may be interested in and the Realtor setting up the showing, period! The client once found their own lender, title company, lawyer and inspector.


    Yeah yeah, same ole thing. Yes, same ole situations.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post



    He could bite it or he could just pinch it off.

    Sorry, Vern, I couldn't resist.
    But it looks like you made an assumption, and frankly, they don't need your inspection report. You might be able to adjust the invoice for the other work you did to compensate, but I'd forget about the time lost inspecting.
    I don't think there's any compensating that can be done here. It's like being erroneously charged in a restaurant for another entree that was never ordered or eaten but the restaurant then tacks additional charges onto the drink orders to make up for the lost income. This is an error that should have no bearing on the buyer in any way. They should pay for what was requested only.

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

  13. #13
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    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    Vern,

    Did the invoice and contract give the list of inspections and prices for each, or one lump sum price?

    If you gave a list of inspection and prices for each, the client selected from the list and is expecting to pay for those selected, like Nick's reference to the restaurant.

    HOWEVER ... if you gave a lump sum price, that is what the client agreed to and what they owe, like Nick's reference to the restaurant - except that this restaurant is Golden Corral and for one price you eat as much ... or as little ... as you want.

    The answer, then, depends on whether they ordered individually priced items ... or the came to the buffet bar and filled up on what they wanted - all for one given price.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  14. #14
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    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Vern,

    Did the invoice and contract give the list of inspections and prices for each, or one lump sum price?

    If you gave a list of inspection and prices for each, the client selected from the list and is expecting to pay for those selected, like Nick's reference to the restaurant.

    HOWEVER ... if you gave a lump sum price, that is what the client agreed to and what they owe, like Nick's reference to the restaurant - except that this restaurant is Golden Corral and for one price you eat as much ... or as little ... as you want.

    The answer, then, depends on whether they ordered individually priced items ... or the came to the buffet bar and filled up on what they wanted - all for one given price.
    Each item clearly and individually listed on both the invoice and the contract and the total amount owed highlighted at the bottom of the list.

    The subject line on the email was "inspections at xxxx". Several weeks earlier the same Realtor called and asked for a termite inspection that had to be done right away, as they had neglected to have one done at the time of the home inspection, done by another HI. The subject line on that email was "termite only inspection for xxxx"

    I appreciate everyones thoughts on the subject and this is my response to the Realtor who vowed never to use me again:

    "Realtor,

    I am sorry you feel that way. I am sure you have looked at the email you sent me on 7-13-11, requesting a "Termite only" inspection for xxxx. The only thing included in the email was the customer name and property address, the only things I would need to schedule just a termite inspection. The termite inspection was done for you as a favor due to time restraints you had gotten into. I am not in the business of scheduling and financing supplemental inspections, I am in the business of Home Inspections. Scheduling supplemental inspections is a convenience I offer to my customers.

    The email requesting "inspections for xxxxxx" included information needed to create an invoice for a home inspection. The invoice was sent to you, the attorney and the customer, with ample time to review. The charges were clearly listed on both the invoice and the contract, which was signed and returned to me.

    I do not feel I made an error, and every effort was made to insure everyone knew what the inspection would include. I know that mistakes are made, and I have had to pay for septic, termite and pool inspections when a perspective inspection has been canceled and I forgot to call and cancel inspections by sub contractors.

    In a good faith effort, the offer to accept half of the home inspection fee, $xxxx for a total amount due of $xxxxx, is extended to you.


    Thank you,
    Vern A. Heiler"






    Last edited by Vern Heiler; 07-31-2011 at 09:56 PM.
    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    I go with the concept that " a contract is a contract".
    Signed contract is an enforcable agreement and a meeting of the minds.
    Send copy of contract and invoice to settlement attorney to be collected at time of settlement, with the stipulation that the items contracted for are only valid if invoice is paid. Else all of the items are void since you were the originating contractor for the tests and the work product is your property until released upon payment. In short your own the reports and tests performed.

    This will stop the settlement since the lender required the items at settlement to process the mortgage.

    They will have to either pay you for the reports or obtain new reports to satisfy the lender.
    In other words do they want to settle on the property today or not. Someone will cough up the money. The listing and selling agents could split the cost just to get through the settlement. Past life as a agent, I would offer the split option if the seller was addiment at on an issue at settlement.


  16. #16
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    I go with the concept that " a contract is a contract".
    Signed contract is an enforcable agreement and a meeting of the minds.
    Send copy of contract and invoice to settlement attorney to be collected at time of settlement, with the stipulation that the items contracted for are only valid if invoice is paid. Else all of the items are void since you were the originating contractor for the tests and the work product is your property until released upon payment. In short your own the reports and tests performed.

    This will stop the settlement since the lender required the items at settlement to process the mortgage.

    They will have to either pay you for the reports or obtain new reports to satisfy the lender.
    In other words do they want to settle on the property today or not. Someone will cough up the money. The listing and selling agents could split the cost just to get through the settlement. Past life as *an* agent, I would offer the split option if the seller was *adamant* at on an issue at settlement.
    Now I have a greater respect for you. You chose to come from the dark side and into the light


  17. #17

    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    I once knew an inspector that always stood his ground when he thaught he was on the right side of a dispute. He always stood his ground from home, as he gained a reputation with the realty community as not being very flexible with business matters. It's amazing how far a little good will can carry ones business. IMO

    George Hallaron: Owner primary inspector
    Bienvenue Home Inspections LLC
    www.bienvenuehomeinspections.com

  18. #18
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    Quote Originally Posted by George Hallaron View Post
    I once knew an inspector that always stood his ground when he thaught he was on the right side of a dispute. He always stood his ground from home, as he gained a reputation with the realty community as not being very flexible with business matters. It's amazing how far a little good will can carry ones business. IMO
    When you mean flexible in business matters you mean .... pleasing the Realtors and making no waves.

    He may have assumed that the Realtor wanted a home inspection as she was contacting a home inspector and then added that she needed three items as well. To top it off the man sent out the contract listing what was going to be done and the buyer signed it along with the total amount.

    As I said above the only problem with any of this is that the Realtor took charge of the entire situation of the inspections (not her job to do such a thing) and then the buyer never read the contract and signed away for a total amount and the total inspections sending the home inspector off to make a living in the inspection world to do a home inspection and to line u the other three inspections.

    None of this was the Inspectors fault no matter how you look at it. It was all because a Realtor

    The absolute last thing any Home inspector should have on his mind is making waves with the Realtor. That is no and never was the way it was meant to be but has turned into over time.

    You are not the only person that had his first concern with not upsetting the Realtor in this case and many a thread over the years before this.

    The Realtors are making multiple thousands and thousands of dollars on this deal. The inspector is only making a few hundred or so.

    What the heck is with all the backwards thinking that the Inspector is the one that should eat this. He only gets paid for his time. The only mistake (and it was huge) he made was not contacting the Client directly and setting up the inspections as he should have in the first place and then there would have never been this confusion or false assumptions. But in saying that it is time for the Realtor to cough a piece of lung up and pay the man. After all she saw the contract and when the buyer contacted the Realtor after looking at the contract and saying "whats this" I can guarantee she never read it either and just told him to sign it as it is the norm to receive a contract and it is standard language or something along those lines which was another huge mistake from the Realtor

    Flexible .... looking bad in the eyes of the other Realtors ..... reputation in the Realty community ..... It's amazing how far a little good will can carry ones business.

    You are kidding about all that, right?

    It is sounding that you have a tremendous influence from that Realtor community. That makes it sound like there should be a huge gap between Realtors and inspectors and let each do their job and let the clients find their own inspector.

    Just sayin! You know what I mean? You know where I am coming from? Catch my drift?

    Just messing with you man. I am the board advocate against Realtor involvement in the home inspection business. Don't take it personal. But do read how what you said sounded. It does prove my point as everyone that has ever questioned my madness does. Time and time and time again.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: I'm sooo MAD!

    Ted,
    Been on the different sides of many fences over the years. Provides for a alternative perspective on so many issues.

    I fought the dark side from within for many years, like being in a black whole, then escaped into the light.


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