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  1. #1
    Anna Woody's Avatar
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    Question Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    I just had a home inspection done today and the Inspector indicated that the 3 gas heating units in the attic were missing drip legs. We just bought the home 5 years ago and no one ever mentioned needing a drip leg. Is this new in Texas -- do all gas heating units require them? Please help! The units are located in the attic if this helps! Thanks so much!

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna Woody View Post
    I just had a home inspection done today and the Inspector indicated that the 3 gas heating units in the attic were missing drip legs. We just bought the home 5 years ago and no one ever mentioned needing a drip leg. Is this new in Texas -- do all gas heating units require them? Please help! The units are located in the attic if this helps! Thanks so much!

    Anna,

    Actually the inspector should have called them "sediment traps" and, yes, they are required, and yes, they have been required for decades, and, no, that requirement was not being enforced until recently - the code folks there were a bit slow on the learning curve.

    Yep, they are supposed to be there. Yep, they gotta be installed, and, yes, you happen to be the current owner who will now be expected to cheerfully pay for them to be installed because the code folks did not make the installers pay for it "back then".

    Think of it this way: If you do not install them and there is a problem which can be traced back to the sediment traps not being installed, and you now know they are supposed to be there ... your name may appear as the first defendant in the lawsuit - along with your agent, the buyers agent, and everyone else the attorney can think of, but the cost of defending against that as "not my fault they were not installed" far exceeds the cost to install them now.

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Hi Anna, I had to check my appointment book to see if it might have been me that delivered your report since it sounds like something I would do.

    I will have to agree with Jerry on all counts, sediment traps are required and are commonly called drip legs/sediment traps interchangeably. The bad news is the city inspectors in this part of Texas have not required them even though in the code for years and years and all furnace and water heater installation manuals require them to be installed.
    The good news is it is a cheap fix that any plumber can take care of in short order.
    By the way several municipalities (Wylie, McKinney, Rowlett, etc.) are now correcting themselves and are now requiring sediment traps due in large part to persistent home inspectors pointing out the issue and also the recent catastrophes in gas systems in the area have made everyone bone up on the fuel gas requirements.

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Yeah, it was probably that Jim guy.

    Seriously, only in the last year has any inspectors started calling out sediment traps as not being present. Heck, I had never even seen one till probably 6 months ago.

    rick


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Jerry, Jim and Rick -- THANK YOU so much for your reply and advice. I think it was Jerry who pointed out the disclosure issue -- let me thicken the pot by saying I AM the Selling Agent -- it's my personal home. So being in the business and going through numerous inspections (Jim -- we just met 4 weeks ago at one) and I was confused as to what a drip leg was since I have never had an inspection to come up with that! I have absolutely no problem with getting them installed -- I just wanted to make sure when I make the call to a Plumber -- they would know what I was talking about ! My last request is for Jim -- do you know of any plumbers in the Allen area that you would recommend for the job?

    Thank all of you again! I didn't even look to see what the Inspector's name was -- I hope it wasn't Jerry or Rick!


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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    I will have to agree with Jerry on all counts, sediment traps are required and are commonly called drip legs/sediment traps interchangeably.
    Unfortunately, though, I have to disagree with Jim on what they are called as a "drip" or "drip leg" is for condensate and is to be located in the lowest part of the gas piping run, while a "sediment trap" is to be located after the final service shut off switch for the appliance and before the appliance and is there to collect and catch debris in the gas stream so it does not interfere with the operation of the gas, including the pilot light.

    "Drip legs" are only required if the gas is "wet".

    "Sediment traps" are required for all types of gas. The only appliances which do not require sediment traps are the ones where you can see the gas burning, and thus see the gas not burning when it should be. Examples of not being required would be gas range, gas fireplace, gas light, and (for whatever reason this is included is beyond me) gas clothes dryers. Also, you may have noticed that those appliances must be manually started too, unlike gas furnaces, gas water heaters, etc.

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Anna,

    Around here you might just have to explain to the Plumber you call what a sediment trap is.

    You might try Ernies Plumbing out of Dallas. (hint hint)

    rick


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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna Woody View Post
    I just wanted to make sure when I make the call to a Plumber -- they would know what I was talking about !
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Around here you might just have to explain to the Plumber you call what a sediment trap is.
    Rick, you beat me to that!

    Anna, not to worry, that inspector would not be me.

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Jerry,

    It wouldn't be me either. Ran a search on all my reports for the name "Woody". Nothing came up.

    I would be a bit curious though as I know many of the inspectors in our area.

    rick


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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Here's a picture for you.

    Remember that the gas should enter the trap vertically and then exit horizontally with the sediment continuing vertically into the sediment trap.

    Horizontal gas entry ain't right.

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Unfortunately, though, I have to disagree with Jim on what they are called
    No Jerry, I totally agree as to the correct terminology, so you are not disagreeing with me.
    Kind of like your perpetual sub panel rant.
    I said
    sediment traps are required and are commonly called drip legs/sediment traps interchangeably
    not that the terms were interchangeable. The terms are commonly USED interchangably by those less knowledgable than you or I
    Of course I knew as soon as I posted that you would take the bait and post the exact definitions for the benefit of all.

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Anna, I don't have a recommendation on a plumber from first hand knowledge, but I have heard good things about Benjamin Franklin from a contractor friend. Here are some diagrams that might be helpful, but watch out since these might have "drip leg" label on them and Jerry might go off

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    I said not that the terms were interchangeable. The terms are commonly USED interchangably by those less knowledgable than you or I
    I LIKE being in agreement with others.

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Here are some diagrams that might be helpful, but watch out since these might have "drip leg" label on them and Jerry might go off
    Jim,

    I don't see anything wrong with either, neither one says "drip leg", I've attached it to show you, I simply do not know what you are referring to.

    (Now quietly delete your incorrect drawing and replace it with the correct one. )

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  15. #15
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    Smile Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    In Chicago we call it "drip leg" or "condensation leg ". In the early days of gas supply in our area the gas was "WET". The gas had a lot of moisture in it and caused problems with the burners. The "leg" gave the heavy moisture a place to reside as the gas flowed on tothe burners.


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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    There's way too much agreement going on here. So.. Uh.. The diameter of the drip leg doesn't matter does it? It could be 3 inches of little ol' 1/2 pipe even thought it's going to pool heater eh?

    Ding ding.


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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Again in Chicago...Per North Shore Gas the drip leg should be 3" and all the pipe in the system should be black pipe not galvanized.


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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by JORY LANNES View Post
    In Chicago we call it "drip leg" or "condensation leg ". In the early days of gas supply in our area the gas was "WET". The gas had a lot of moisture in it and caused problems with the burners. The "leg" gave the heavy moisture a place to reside as the gas flowed on tothe burners.
    Jory,

    Youse guys in da 'hood mite cull it ah "drip leg", an wat youse be descibin' be in fact a "drip leg", bu' youse got da locashun fer it wrong.

    A drip leg is placed .... is SUPPOSED TO BE PLACED ... at the lowest point in the gas piping system, for the very reason you pointed out - "WET" gas.

    A "sediment trap", on the other hand, is for "sediment" in the gas flow, not "condensation" collecting on the metal piping, and a "sediment trap" is located right before the appliance.

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Smith View Post
    The diameter of the drip leg doesn't matter does it? It could be 3 inches of little ol' 1/2 pipe even thought it's going to pool heater eh?
    Kyle,

    You are correct in that the diameter does not matter and is not specified.

    That said, though, the sediment trap, as well as drip legs, "are the same size as" the gas pipe being served.

    Thus the diameter of the sediment trap, as well as drip legs, could be any size - whatever size the gas pipe is.

    Quote Originally Posted by JORY LANNES View Post
    Again in Chicago...Per North Shore Gas the drip leg should be 3" and all the pipe in the system should be black pipe not galvanized.
    Yes, as you both have said, it "should be" 3 inches, however, the gas codes do not specify that length. Maybe the North Shore Gas company does, but codes have not.

    When it comes to codes (minimum) and gas company requirements (minimums, but sometimes more stringent than codes) the most restrictive applies.

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    This is what I put in my reports for these situations:

    A sediment trap, not a drip or drip leg – the two terms are not synonymous - is required on the gas line of this unit. A drip or drip leg is the container placed at a low point in a system of piping using “wet” gas to collect condensate and from which the condensate is removable. Most gas supplies currently use dry gas thus eliminating the need for drips or drip legs.
    Sediment traps, on the other hand, are required at all gas appliance installation except for gas yard lights, gas clothes dryers, and outdoor grills. In addition to the code requirement, most appliance manufacturers require the installation of a sediment trap (dirt leg) to protect the appliance from debris in the gas. Sediment traps are necessary to protect appliance gas controls from the dirt, soil, pipe chips, pipe joint tapes and compounds and construction site debris that enters the piping during installation and repairs. Hazardous appliance operation could result from debris entering gas controls and burners. Despite the fact that utilities supply clean gas, debris can enter the piping prior to and during installation on the utility side of the system and on the customer side.
    Sediment traps are designed to cause the gas flow to change direction 90 degrees (1.57 rad) at the sediment collection point, thus causing the solid or liquid contaminants to drop out of the gas flow. The nipple and cap must not be placed in the branch opening of a tee fitting because this would not create a change in direction of flow and would allow debris to pass over the collection point. Failure to install this sediment trap will result in invalidation of the unit’s manufacturer’s warranty.
    G2419.4 (408.4) Sediment trap.
    Where a sediment trap is not incorporated as part of the gas utilization equipment, a sediment trap shall be installed downstream of the equipment shutoff valve as close to the inlet of the equipment as practical. The sediment trap shall be either a tee fitting with a capped nipple in the bottom opening of the run of the tee or other device approved as an effective sediment trap. Illuminating appliances, ranges, clothes dryers and outdoor grills need not be so equipped.

    Now, I am sure that the resident squawkers will have their way with the statement, but I will continue to use it just the same.


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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    Sediment traps, on the other hand, are required at all gas appliance installation except for gas yard lights, gas clothes dryers, and outdoor grills.

    You missed "ranges" (which would also include "cooktops").

    This is what the IRC says: "Illuminating appliances, ranges, clothes dryers and outdoor grills need not be so equipped."

    But don't go changing it on my behalf ... only change it if you want to be correct.

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Hey, would somebody post a diagram or photo of a drip leg?

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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    You missed "ranges" (which would also include "cooktops").

    This is what the IRC says: "Illuminating appliances, ranges, clothes dryers and outdoor grills need not be so equipped."

    But don't go changing it on my behalf ... only change it if you want to be correct.
    JP: Anal correctness, with its requisite perfection, is your bailiwick. Very, very close is good enough for me. Besides I did not want to embarrass you again by reminding you that a range is not a cook top. A range may have a cook top, but is not one. Just as Jaguar may have wheels, but is not a real car.

    That goes double for the XKR sedan.


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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Hey, would somebody post a diagram or photo of a drip leg?
    JL: Drip leg or sediment trap?


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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Drip leg.

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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Sediment trap:

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    JL: Drip leg or sediment trap?
    Well, since there are already several sediment trap diagrams already on this post, I think it would be safe to assume that he really meant "drip leg".

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Can anybody guess what is wrong with the diagram of the sediment trap which Aaron posted? (other than the drip vs sediment thing)

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Well, since there are already several sediment trap diagrams already on this post, I think it would be safe to assume that he really meant "drip leg".
    And I would assume that you both know they look alike.


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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    And I would assume that you both know they look alike.
    Aaron, don't steal my thunder

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  31. #31
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Aaron, don't steal my thunder
    OK.


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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Can anybody guess what is wrong with the diagram of the sediment trap which Aaron posted? (other than the drip vs sediment thing)

    Jim,

    Do we have to "guess", or are we allowed to already "know"?

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    One final point to this thread. No sediment trap and the gas fired FAU, water heater, or gas appliance fails the home warranty folks will probably deny your claim. That's just the kind of "stuff" those weenies look for.

    Jerry McCarthy
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Still looking for that photo or diagram of a drip leg.

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Still looking for that photo or diagram of a drip leg.
    Jim,

    Not sure you will find an "authoritative" drawing of a "drip" or "drip leg" as the IRC and IFGC Commentary are very explicit in that "they are not the same thing as a sediment trap" and that "they serve two entirely different purposes".

    However, based on some discussions I had many years ago about "drip legs", what they were for, and how they should be installed, with one of the people at the old SBCCI who interpreted the code (long before they joined the other model codes and became the ICC), there are multiple ways to make a "drip leg", all of which must provided for a means to catch and collect condensation and to allow for the drip "leg" to be emptied when needed.

    I can draw up the different versions for you if that would be "authoritative" enough.

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Gee Jim, would it have something to do with:

    a sediment trap shall be installed "downstream" of the equipment shutoff valve as close to the inlet of the equipment as practical.

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Erby Crofutt View Post
    Gee Jim, would it have something to do with:

    a sediment trap shall be installed "downstream" of the equipment shutoff valve as close to the inlet of the equipment as practical.

    Ding! Ding! Ding! we have a winner!

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Jim,

    Here is the difference between a "sediment trap" and a "drip leg" and why.

    And, yes, when you go to drain a "drip leg" you have to shut the gas off at the supply, there is no valve ahead of it, although you could install a valve on either side.

    Also note that a drip leg is required for wet gas *at every location* where condensation can collect, meaning *all* low areas in the piping run, thus adding valves is not a real option. And, yes, they also have to be accessible.

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    My, My, but those first two diagrams look very similar... how does the sediment know to stay out of the drip leg and the moisture stay out of the sediment trap??


    You mean to say that a sediment trap can look identical to a drip leg and can perform identical functions and the only real difference is their location in the piping system?? Oh, yeah the names are different

    Tomato, tomahto, sub panel, panel... I think I got it! It's another Jerry'ism!

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Hi, All &

    Up here (Canada - West Coast, anyway - FYI), we calls 'em "dirt legs" (same as sediment traps, but slightly different name), in case anyone is interested...


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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    My, My, but those first two diagrams look very similar... how does the sediment know to stay out of the drip leg and the moisture stay out of the sediment trap??


    You mean to say that a sediment trap can look identical to a drip leg and can perform identical functions and the only real difference is their location in the piping system?? Oh, yeah the names are different

    Tomato, tomahto, sub panel, panel... I think I got it! It's another Jerry'ism!

    Jim,

    Now that you are done ROTFLMAO ... take another look at those drawings ... a CLOSER look ... and it is now my turn to be ROTFLMAO ...

    Did you notice which way the gas enters and exists? Do you NOW GET the answers to your questions?

    Give me a minute to get up after ROTFLMAO ... (there - brushing off) ... Whew!, Jim, that was a good one.

    Do you need me to guide you through it step-by-step?


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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Well, I'll have to give it to you that the arrows and description that you have added to the diagrams are different.

    However, the 2003 IFG does not specify the direction of the gas through a drip, nor a sediment trap, where did you get that?
    Also, note the diagram of the pipe is the SAME on the left and the right, only the location and the name is different even in your diagrams.

    The code only specifies a sediment trap capped nipple be in the bottom opening of the run of the tee, not that the gas must enter from the top or side.
    The apparent intent being to turn the gas while any debris drops into the capped nipple.
    Seriously, is this something that the code has lost over the years or did you just pull that out of your ***?

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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Well, I'll have to give it to you that the arrows and description that you have added to the diagrams are different.

    However, the 2003 IFG does not specify the direction of the gas through a drip, nor a sediment trap, where did you get that?
    To save boring all the others by repeating it with a quote I will direct you to post #35 above.

    Also, note the diagram of the pipe is the SAME on the left and the right, only the location and the name is different even in your diagrams.
    THE PIPE is the same, but not its use nor its design, which is indicated by the arrows showing gas flow direction.

    "Drip legs" are almost a thing of the past and as such are not addressed with the same level of detail as as "sediment traps" are, which even have their own drawing and some photos of 'how to do it' and 'how not to do it' in the Commentary.

    Can you imagine how many drip legs would be required in CSST gas systems as the systems are installed with all their loops and dips between supports if "wet" gas was used in a CSST system? You would need a "drip leg" installed at each sag between supports, and each one would need to be accessible so it could be drained. What a nightmare that would be.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  44. #44

    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    This 2009 thread needs to be resurrected to to clear up a faulty concept conveyed by JP in post #38. I appreciate the attempt to use logic and go the extra mile to create the enhanced sediment trap/drip leg diagram, but it gives the misconception that when gas flows one direction through the “T” it is a drip leg and the other direction it is a sediment trap. This is just plain wrong and I would hate to see an inspector read this and write up the issue in their report and then suffer ridicule and tarnishing of their reputation while being left with no documentation to support their reported claim.
    The IRC commentary stresses the following... “Sediment traps are designed to cause the gas flow to change direction 90 degrees at the sediment collection point, thus causing the solid or liquid contaminants to drop out of the gas flow. See Commentary Figure G2419.4(1).” It is just that simple. The gas can flow in from the side and leave from the top, or flow in from the top and leave from the side. Either way, the solid or liquid contaminants fall out and become trapped. This is why those that created the IRC Commentary diagram did not add arrows to mandate the flow of gas. Let’s keep it simple!

    Here is a more complete link with the diagrams, references, and documentation. DRIPS & SEDIMENT TRAPS - www.WaterHeaterExplosions.com - Another great website from Michael Leavitt & Co Inspections, Inc.

    Hope this helps!

    Michael Leavitt - Orem, Utah
    www.TheHomeInspector.com
    www.DeckFailure.com

  45. #45
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    For inspectors on the left coast here is the written word:

    California Plumbing Code - 1212.7 Sediment Trap. Where a sediment trap is not incorporated as a part of the gas utilization equipment, a sediment trap shall be installed as close to the inlet of the equipment as practical at the time of equipment installation. The sediment trap shall be either a tee fitting with a capped nipple in the bottom outlet, as illustrated in Figure 12-1, or other device recognized as an effective sediment trap. Illuminating appliances, ranges, clothes dryers, decorative vented appliances for installation in vented fireplaces, gas fireplaces, and outdoor grills shall not be required to be so equipped. [NFPA 54: 9.6.7]

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  46. #46
    Darrel Hood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Jerry M.,
    If the sediment trap is not installed at the time the equipment is installed, what does that mean? According to your code, there is no way to become compliant except to install new equipment and a sediment trap. That sounds nutty even for California.


  47. #47
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Leavitt View Post
    This 2009 thread needs to be resurrected to to clear up a faulty concept conveyed by JP in post #38. I appreciate the attempt to use logic and go the extra mile to create the enhanced sediment trap/drip leg diagram, but it gives the misconception that when gas flows one direction through the “T” it is a drip leg and the other direction it is a sediment trap. This is just plain wrong and I would hate to see an inspector read this and write up the issue in their report and then suffer ridicule and tarnishing of their reputation while being left with no documentation to support their reported claim.
    The IRC commentary stresses the following... “Sediment traps are designed to cause the gas flow to change direction 90 degrees at the sediment collection point, thus causing the solid or liquid contaminants to drop out of the gas flow. See Commentary Figure G2419.4(1).” It is just that simple. The gas can flow in from the side and leave from the top, or flow in from the top and leave from the side. Either way, the solid or liquid contaminants fall out and become trapped. This is why those that created the IRC Commentary diagram did not add arrows to mandate the flow of gas. Let’s keep it simple!

    Here is a more complete link with the diagrams, references, and documentation. DRIPS & SEDIMENT TRAPS - www.WaterHeaterExplosions.com - Another great website from Michael Leavitt & Co Inspections, Inc.

    Hope this helps!
    Both of Jerry Peck's created and altered notation diagrams (the right most and bottom most illustrations in the attachment) from post 38 labeled "drip leg" diagrams are incorrect and not legal as a drip leg or a sediment trap for the flow of natural gas and A.D. Miller's diagram (previously commented on regarding location of appliance being backwards as was the direction of flow) are incorrect for the use of a T fitting regarding flow of gas, for a trap, or leg, sediment, dirt, or condensation, such as when gas pipes pass through conditioned space or within heated walls and then emerge high up in an uncontioned space such as in an unconditioned attic, then direct dropping down near the attic floor supplying an appliance, where condensation may occur; or for example entrance above the warm, insulated sill plate ceiling/floor area, with a direct drop down near the cooler unconditioned basement floor supplying an appliance, where condensation within may occur, or very cool basement in the summer months. Oftentimes utility delivered NG contains entrained air, moisture, condensation is not uncommon in the delivery system. Overpass protection against passage of dirt and scale has been overlooked in many areas regarding enforcement, unfortunately see direct drops all too often, another factor in even attended appliances having an even shorter useful life in this planned obselesent, disposable, limited warranty, gotta have the latest, cheaper to replace it than to service it, economy.

    A Tee fitting thus used has a correct and an incorrect orientation. This has been discussed on other discussions. A tee has a branch and a run. The change in direction for the flow of gas must be FROM the RUN of the tee TO the BRANCH of the TEE, the trap (leg) must be at the continuation of the run below the branch (under the flow of gas, change of direction).

    This was most recently discussed in ths topic thread: http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...ment-trap.html

    See my post #4 here: http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...tml#post175641

    Wherein I explained:



    The pictured is neither an "effective" sediment trap nor drip "leg".

    The trap should be constructed under (to catch sediment) the tee installed in an orentiation so as to change the direction of the flow of the gas by 90 degrees.

    When using a "tee" this would indicate a change of direction for the flow of gas FROM the RUN of the tee TO the BRANCH of the tee.

    The gas supply is from above, the optimal would be after a ground joint union appliance side of the gas valve, to a tee run at the point where the gas flow remains downward and therefore makes a 90 degree change of direction (to horizontal towards the appliance), and a nipple at the downward (RUN) outlet of the tee of at least 3" long (present minimum) and a plug/cap to serve as the trap.

    The trap needs to be from the run end of the tee below the gas change of direction via the branch of the tee.

    That is to say, not as a " T " orientation as pictured,
    but as a " |--> ".

    In your picture, the tee does not provide a change of direction in the flow of gas, and the nipple has been installed in the branch of the tee, where it will NOT function as an EFFECTIVE trap.

    It (the tee) should be after a union following the shut-off valve and prior to a change of direction in the flow of gas from its downward run.
    Pipe fittings have specific purposes and orientations for specific applications.

    Further explained in post #7 of the more recent discussion, http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...tml#post175659

    the gas plumbing and trap is still "wrong" for the same reasons - only the citations differ, be they Illinois Plumbing Code, NFPA 54, or IFGC referenced. The former GAMA made it quite clear the intent and requirement for same as well in numerous "position statements", etc.

    Every such appliance manufacturer makes reference to NFPA 54, either directly as same or as the National (not international) fuel gas code, via its associated ANSI standard number, cross referenced in whichever ANSI standard same is listed or accepted under; and in such instructions indicates the rigorness of same must be abided (proscribed) in the installation, and any local code requirements should they be more restrictive.

    Therefore the associated references at the time of manufacture to the associated edition date of the Standard (NFPA 54) would be incorporated into the instuctions - and thus be referenced.


    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 01-03-2012 at 02:57 PM.

  48. #48
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    For inspectors on the left coast here is the written word:

    California Plumbing Code - 1212.7 Sediment Trap. Where a sediment trap is not incorporated as a part of the gas utilization equipment, a sediment trap shall be installed as close to the inlet of the equipment as practical at the time of equipment installation. The sediment trap shall be either a tee fitting with a capped nipple in the bottom outlet, as illustrated in Figure 12-1, or other device recognized as an effective sediment trap. Illuminating appliances, ranges, clothes dryers, decorative vented appliances for installation in vented fireplaces, gas fireplaces, and outdoor grills shall not be required to be so equipped. [NFPA 54: 9.6.7]
    Quote Originally Posted by Darrel Hood View Post
    Jerry M.,
    If the sediment trap is not installed at the time the equipment is installed, what does that mean? According to your code, there is no way to become compliant except to install new equipment and a sediment trap. That sounds nutty even for California.
    Darrel,

    That's not what that code section WC Jerry posted says with: "as a part of the gas utilization equipment".

    That section means that if the sediment trap *is not part of* the gas appliance, i.e., that the sediment trap is not *built into* the gas appliance, then a sediment trap shall be installed.

    Being as most residential gas appliances do not have built-in sediment traps, sediment traps are required to be installed *prior to the appliance* and after the shut off valve as this allows for the gas to be turned off to the appliance at that shut off valve, the sediment trap cleaned out, then the gas turned back on - all without having to shut the entire gas system down at the meter.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  49. #49
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    A "drip leg", for the guys above who do not understand what it is and how it is different than a "sediment trap", is

    - 408.1 Slopes.
    - - Piping for other than dry gas conditions shall be sloped not less than 1/4 inch in 15 feet (6.3 mm in 4572 mm) to prevent traps.
    - 408.2 Drips.
    - - Where wet gas exists, a drip shall be provided at any point in the line of pipe where condensate could collect. A drip shall also be provided at the outlet of the meter and shall be installed so as to constitute a trap wherein an accumulation of condensate will shut off the flow of gas before the condensate will run back into the meter.
    - 408.3 Location of drips.
    - - Drips shall be provided with ready access to permit cleaning or emptying. A drip shall not be located where the condensate is subject to freezing.

    I believe you will find that my drawings adequately show drip which meet the above requirements.

    W C Jerry posted the sediment trap configuration, which also shows the arrows for the direction of gas flow for proper "sediment traps".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  50. #50
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    It’s amazing to me that something so simple as a gas supply piping sediment trap serving a gas water heater or furnace can be so misinterpreted by folks on this BB? Gas supply piping sediment traps are installed to catch/ collect excess plumber's pipe dope and/ or metal shavings from threaded pipes. If this junk gets into a gas appliance burner mechanism it can result in a fire. Simple; it's just another one of our occupant safety protection codes, nothing more that installing a handradrail of a set of stairs or safety tempered glazing. The drip leg theory was once viable, but rare today due to the type of (dry) natural gas supplied by the utility companies.
    Guys, bottom line, no sediment trap, it’s an automatic write up; end of story and time to move on.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  51. #51
    Darrel Hood's Avatar
    Darrel Hood Guest

    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Jerry P,
    My post was an attempt at humor based on reading a sentence too literally. That's why the wink symbol was added.


  52. #52
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Are drip legs required for existing water heaters or only new construction,or are they required on water heaters in texas


  53. #53
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth scott View Post
    Are drip legs required for existing water heaters or only new construction,or are they required on water heaters in texas
    They are required on gas water heaters

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  54. #54

    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth scott View Post
    Are drip legs required for existing water heaters or only new construction,or are they required on water heaters in texas
    Kenneth:
    I do not know of any exceptions that nullify the requirements in the IRC and the manufacturers installation specs when installing water heaters in Texas. So if you see a newer install, then you should expect to see one installed, although you rarely see them in my area of Northern Utah either. They are required but vastly overlooked with nobody seemingly to care. But you can be sure that if you fail to report the omission and the house burns down, then you will be defending your negligence in court with a seemingly open checkbook. The following link should help...
    DRIPS & SEDIMENT TRAPS - www.WaterHeaterExplosions.com - Another great official website from Michael Leavitt & Co Inspections, Inc.
    Michael Leavitt - Orem, Utah - www.TheHomeInspector.com - Michael Leavitt & Co Inspections, Inc.

    Michael Leavitt - Orem, Utah
    www.TheHomeInspector.com
    www.DeckFailure.com

  55. #55
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth scott View Post
    Are drip legs required for existing water heaters or only new construction,or are they required on water heaters in texas
    You asked about drip legs. My answer was for sediment traps.
    Many times when someone says drip leg, they are really talking about sediment traps.
    Drip legs are not always required, but sediment traps are.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  56. #56
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    Red face Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Leavitt View Post
    Kenneth:
    I do not know of any exceptions that nullify the requirements in the IRC and the manufacturers installation specs when installing water heaters in Texas. So if you see a newer install, then you should expect to see one installed, although you rarely see them in my area of Northern Utah either. They are required but vastly overlooked with nobody seemingly to care. But you can be sure that if you fail to report the omission and the house burns down, then you will be defending your negligence in court with a seemingly open checkbook. The following link should help...
    DRIPS & SEDIMENT TRAPS - www.WaterHeaterExplosions.com - Another great official website from Michael Leavitt & Co Inspections, Inc.
    Michael Leavitt - Orem, Utah - www.TheHomeInspector.com - Michael Leavitt & Co Inspections, Inc.

    thanks again


  57. #57
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth scott View Post
    thanks again

    ....thank you for your help


  58. #58
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg (Actually - "Sediment Trap") in Texas

    As noted by many others you first need to clarify your terminology between "drip legs" and "sediment traps". They are similar, but different.

    Common terminology swap is used by many (inspectors, plumbers and more).

    Sediment traps are the devices located (or supposed to be) at gas fired furnaces and water heaters (including pool heaters).

    The IRC (International Residential Code) has required them for many years. Many (if not most) all appliance manufacturers (for furnaces, water heaters, etc.,) also require them as part of their installation instructions or at the least state the installation of such should follow "local code" requirements.

    As Michael and others have noted sometimes the local AHJs don't enforce the installation of the sediment traps. Trying to get an explanation from them for such is like trying to get a straight answer out of a government official.

    Some AHJs actually have "exempted" the installation of the sediment trap, but one has to take the time to dig through the local AHJs list of exemptions for the IRC or other local code they have adopted.

    If the sediment trap is not there it is so noted in my reports.


  59. #59
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Occasionally, I am amazed at how much commentary a very simple topic can garnish. I'm from Texas and never heard these traps called anything but "drip legs". Here it's pretty much the same. I've never heard a plumber here call any trap on a gas line a "sediment trap". And I too, am guilty of using the term "drip leg" for both.

    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

  60. #60
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    someone may want to try
    SECTION G2419 (408) DRIPS AND SLOPED PIPING for description and diagram
    Chapter 24 - Fuel Gas

    send the verbiage police to raid & confiscate pg 12
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  61. #61
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    Default Re: Gas Drip Leg in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Lon Henderson View Post
    Occasionally, I am amazed at how much commentary a very simple topic can garnish. I'm from Texas and never heard these traps called anything but "drip legs". Here it's pretty much the same. I've never heard a plumber here call any trap on a gas line a "sediment trap". And I too, am guilty of using the term "drip leg" for both.
    Now see???? That is why they kicked you out of Texas!!!! They let me stay because I occasionally get it right.


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