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  1. #1
    Esther Duke's Avatar
    Esther Duke Guest

    Default Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Hi new friends,

    I saw some Cutler-Hammer's breakers at home depot with a so called rejecting tab/limiting circuits and the people there wouldn't give me a good explanation about those. They are silver tabs, I assumed, by the name, that those breakers cannot be used normally in panels. Any input appreciated.

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  2. #2
    Esther Duke's Avatar
    Esther Duke Guest

    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Whoa, no answer to this post


  3. #3
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Esther Duke View Post
    Whoa, no answer to this post
    ED: The "electricians" on this forum are usually quick to jump on this or that wagon of the ridiculous. When it comes to truly technical questions though, they habitually lurk and drool on their wire cutters, not knowing which conductor to snip. It is a lack of myelin and synapses that causes this. These are also electrical phenomena, but at the electron microscopic level, so don't hold it against them.


  4. #4
    Todd Johnson's Avatar
    Todd Johnson Guest

    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    This sounds like a tandem breaker that will only fit into a panel designed to accept them. Most manufacturers make this type of breaker. You will find them in panels that have dual capacity ratings like 20-40 or 8-16 for circuit capacity. These dual rated panels are designed to accept the tandem or half size breakers.


  5. #5
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Esther Duke View Post
    Whoa, no answer to this post
    Esther: See just how easy that was? Let that be a lesson for you. If you want answers on this forum you often have to goad, even embarrass, the appropriate parties into divulging them!


  6. #6
    Kyle Kubs's Avatar
    Kyle Kubs Guest

    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    Esther: See just how easy that was? Let that be a lesson for you. If you want answers on this forum you often have to goad, even embarrass, the appropriate parties into divulging them!

    Yes, especially since you weren't able to answer his question yourself...


  7. #7
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Kubs View Post
    Yes, especially since you weren't able to answer his question yourself...
    KK: I, but for the grace of god, am not an electrician.

    Esther: See how the little buggers literally boil out of the woodwork once provoked? Amazing, isn't it?


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    ED: The "electricians" on this forum are usually quick to jump on this or that wagon of the ridiculous. When it comes to truly technical questions though, they habitually lurk and drool on their wire cutters, not knowing which conductor to snip. It is a lack of myelin and synapses that causes this. These are also electrical phenomena, but at the electron microscopic level, so don't hold it against them.
    Holy crap you are one piece of work. What's ridiculous is the majority of your posts which are biased and belittling.
    What's the matter, you loose a handyman job to a real electrician one day and now you will forever hold a grudge?


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Esther Duke View Post
    Hi new friends,

    I saw some Cutler-Hammer's breakers at home depot with a so called rejecting tab/limiting circuits and the people there wouldn't give me a good explanation about those. They are silver tabs, I assumed, by the name, that those breakers cannot be used normally in panels. Any input appreciated.
    The rejection tabes are in place to prevent you from putting those breakers into a "non-CTL" panelboard. Doing so can/would exceed the maximum number of circuits or poles a panel is designed to accept.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Or instead of trying to provoke an answer yourself, just call in a professional provoker like Aaron. He really likes his job!

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  11. #11
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Or instead of trying to provoke an answer yourself, just call in a professional provoker like Aaron. He really likes his job!
    JL: And, he is damned good at it.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    ED: The "electricians" on this forum are usually quick to jump on this or that wagon of the ridiculous. When it comes to truly technical questions though, they habitually lurk and drool on their wire cutters, not knowing which conductor to snip. It is a lack of myelin and synapses that causes this. These are also electrical phenomena, but at the electron microscopic level, so don't hold it against them.

    Ok No offense to Esther with this..

    But as far as the smart ass remarks made by another - Did you even think to offer to suggest that the original poster post this question in the CORRECT SECTION of the site ?
    No I don't think so, as you were too busy trying to look smart by using childish tactics attacking others. It must be terrible to be so threatened by those who do know.

    Had the post been placed in the electrical section rather then the
    "INTRODUCTIONS BY NEW MEMBERS" it would have been addressed in a more prompt fashion.


  13. #13
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    as you were too busy trying to look smart by using childish tactics attacking others. It must be terrible to be so threatened by those who do know.
    KH: Trust me, you neither threaten nor amuse me. And, should I ever actually "attack" you, you will certainly know it.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    KH: Trust me, you neither threaten nor amuse me. And, should I ever actually "attack" you, you will certainly know it.
    Trust me - I aint worried


  15. #15
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Quote Originally Posted by ken horak View Post
    Trust me - I aint worried
    KH: The Apostrophe Troll will be after you, too.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Note: If you see those little silver tabs on the floor infront of the panel, during a pre-drywall or new construction inspection, you know to look for over loading of the panel. It happens!


  17. #17
    Esther Duke's Avatar
    Esther Duke Guest

    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    BIG THANKS,

    Esther


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    All clear as mud so far?

    Prior to 1968 panels and breakers were manufactured without the rejection feature (non CTL). The rejection feature configures the panel and breakers so that the design limit of circuits can't be exceeded by adding more duplex or half wide breakers (CTL).

    One example is the Cutler Hammer BR series. The panels come in 2 designs. One type is for full width single breakers only and the other can use duplex (tandem, piggyback) breakers. The panel designed for the duplex breakers has the buss slotted in the positions where the duplex breaker can be used. This can be all spaces with a circuit capacity noted as, for example, 20/40 (20 spaces, 40 circuits) or just some of the spaces, designated 30/40 (30 spaces, 40 circuits), for example.

    The metal tab (in the slot that contains the buss contact) prevents the breaker from being installed on a non-slotted buss. The tab can be broken out with some effort and usually damages the housing in the process of removal. This is a type BD breaker.

    A type BR duplex breaker is manufactured to allow replacements for breakers in the older panel design (non CTL type) where the circuit limiting features weren't used. These breakers will fit either the slotted or unslotted buss. The only apparent mechanism in place to try and prevent their use in the wrong place is that they are about twice the price of the breaker with the metal rejection tab.

    The modification of a CTL breaker or use of non CTL breakers can result in a panel rated for 42 circuits having a total of 84 circuits installed. Yes, I've seen it at least twice.

    A panel rated for 20 circuits with 20 spaces that has 10 duplex non CTL breakers installed isn't overloaded with circuits but does have equipment installed not listed for the purpose.

    Other manufacturers have various methods for preventing installation of non CTL breakers in CTL panels and most are as easy to defeat as the CH BR type. Another thing to look for


  19. #19
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    BK: Informative post. Thanks.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kriegh View Post
    The modification of a CTL breaker or use of non CTL breakers can result in a panel rated for 42 circuits having a total of 84 circuits installed. Yes, I've seen it at least twice.
    To clarify, that does not make it "overloaded" it simply means it has more breakers than is allowed by code and its listing and labeling.

    A panel rated for 20 circuits with 20 spaces that has 10 duplex non CTL breakers installed isn't overloaded with circuits but does have equipment installed not listed for the purpose.
    To clarify, that does not make it "overloaded" it simply means it has more breakers than is allowed by code and its listing and labeling.

    Now, I anticipate someone stating that the code allowed for 42 breakers therefore 40 breakers is not more than the code allows, except that the code only allows as many breakers in the panel as the panel is listed and labeled for - which was 20 in the case above, thus more than 20 is "more breaker than is allowed by code and its listing and labeling".

    Good information in there, Bill.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Any pictures of these with and without the metal tab. I like to use this site for education not bickering.

    Tom Rees / A Closer Look Home Inspection / Salt Lake City, Utah

  22. #22
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    I like to use this site for education not bickering.
    TR: So then, until you learn to distinguish between petulant quarrelling and discourse intended to persuade, you should just look at the pictures.



  23. #23

    Talking Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Esther Duke View Post
    Whoa, no answer to this post
    To enlighten some of you these are space savers, or twins as some do call them, or excuse me, two pole twins, if you need to free up space in your panel and you have an appliance which needs 220, these sit I between the clips on which you snap in a regular standard breaker, the little tab is so that you don't just deliver 110 to your..lets..say..oven! It prevents you from making that mistake and it is a tricky device when your trying to add one cause if you do add one you'll end up moving your whole panel around just to place one in, if you try to add another you better hope you did it at the same time as the previous cause you'll be rearranging it for the second time it throws some people off cause it sits between to spots and leaves a single twin below and above it so it's beneficial to maximize the space to twin out the rest of you panel, I case like me you meticulous and can't stand organizing your panel to look all pretty for the inspector and you have two empty spots that could fit a single twin in each one, which when anyone looks at it goes ahead and asks nomatter how pretty it looks, "now why did you leave two empty spots like that? Couldn't you of moved everything down two spots? It just looks weird" which could allow you one of two things, explaining it which leads to more standing around and chatting with the inspector and makes you look good being all smart and stuff! Or just say you have no idea and just tell them you let the youngster have a swing at making up a panel, and just say "little guy, he tries hard, he really does! Lol anyway hope that helped out just a tad, see ya

    - - - Updated - - -


  24. #24
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    Default Re: Rejecting tabs on cuttler hammers breakers

    Hello smokes, Jesse. One sentence covers 11 lines of text.
    We can't read that.
    What was the ?

    Write it so a Grade 6 kid can read it on a cell phone. You will reach 90% of the population that way.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

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