Thread: Hello, thinking of a career change

I am a new member here and I was thinking about becoming a HI for a new career. I thought maybe some of you seasoned inspectors could help me out with this decision. I am currently employed with a county government. The perks are a lifetime pension at retirement, paycheck every two weeks, and free health insurance since I am single (if I had kids they would cost). On the other hand I have to show up 40 hours a week at a specified time, deal with bosses, general office BS, and routine mind knumbing work. My income is dead end at 61k a year, no more raises except COLA. We have experienced one round of layoffs and another is coming in February. Bosses like to threaten us with this as a way of control. I have a four year college degree and have been an employee for 14 years at the county. I do own several single family rent houses and I do have a general interest in real estate. I have spent a fair amount of time rehabbing houses so I have some limited knowledge. I fully understand home buying is currently slow but everything cycles. The population is constantly increasing while home building is lagging. Eventually we will be in a sellers market again. Thanks for any replies. I live in Houston if that helps with any thoughts.

Similar Threads:

• Just thinking
• Thinking too hard?
• Change to NAHI Code of Ethics
• Code Change
• Wrightstown approves change to swimming pool regulations

Well, for starters you will no longer have those benefits or insurance. You should expect it to take 3-4 years before you really see a profit, and that will not be the $61K income you now have. I would say that a good income for a full time solo inspector will be around $40K to 60K, and that is staying busy.

You will need to get your HI license, TX has some pretty steep education requirements (more than any other state) along with other requirement.

What appeals to you about Home Inspecting? Is it just because it is different that what you are doing now or do you have some burning desire to inspect homes? What draws you to home inspecting?

You are opening and running a Business, not just "inspecting houses". You will have to deal with taxes, all manner of paperwork, marketing, advertising, and scheduling just to name a few.

You need to be able to write well.
Be able to operate a computer and learn new software
Typing at least 30 wpm makes life much easier.
Be willing to climb ladders, walk on roofs, and wriggle through muddy crawlspaces filled with all manner of icky stuff.
Be able to convince potential clients you are better than everyone else.
Be able to drive to a new location everyday.
Have a GPS and know how to read a map.
Become intimately familar with building, electrical, plumbing and mechanical codes.
Create and maintain a website
Buy business insurance in the form of General Liability and possibly Errors & Omissions

I wouldnt discourage anyone from trying something different, but I will give you my perspective:

1. First couple of years will be rough. You will probably lose money. *when you consider cost of education, materials, insurance, etc.
2. Its hard work. Attics in Houston in summer are a killer.
3. Lots of competition, although its getting a little better I think (even though TREC seems to want to lower the standards).
4. You will have a target on your back for anyone that has any kind of problem with a home you inspected.
5. No matter how good you are, you will at some point likely miss something.
6. You will be competing with inspectors that are willing to do an inspection for almost nothing just to offset the cost of their insurance.

What I like
1. Satisfaction of "killing something and dragging it home" as Dave Ramsey says.
2. Helping people avoid potentially costly mistakes.
3. Almost everyone I have did an inspection for was a great customer and became a salesman for my services.


My two cents. I am likely getting out of it when my license expires. Its been fun (hasn't paid well enough though to justify the risk) and I have learned a tremendous amount about homes. Will come in handy on my own home maintenance and future homes I build/buy. Writing a quality report is a time killer and will likely near equal the amount of time you spent inspecting the home. It gets easier as you gain experience, but you will spend a lot of time on report compilation.

Good luck on what ever route you choose. Its rewarding, just not as easy as some think.

I would go with Plan B.

You got some good advice already. With the market the way it is, and no relief in sight, I would think you will have at least 5 years before you will make any money.

It will probably take over a year, and a fair amount of cash just to get your license. Shell out more $$$$ to get the business started, and then wait for the phone to ring. It will be a rough road to hoe, as they say.

If I was in your shoes, and was unhappy with my current job, I would probably try to find something that I was good at, and had a good chance of making money right away, with less risk.

What's funny, is I was in your shoes. I did work for the County, and had a pretty good job, that I mostly liked, but liked less and less each year. I started in doing HI's part time, and finally had to do that one "TPS report" too many, and went into HI full time. Of course, this was close to 20 years ago, and things were a lot different.

Good luck with your quest.

Keep the day job!

I've got losers here in Dallas doing inspections for $150.00 cause their wives is threatening to leave them if they don't bring some type of money home. I'm serious as a heart attack. My son (the realtor) forwarded me this jerk's email that he is mass mailing out to agents. 150.00 WTF!

rick

Originally Posted by Wade Allen

I am a new member here and I was thinking about becoming a HI for a new career. I thought maybe some of you seasoned inspectors could help me out with this decision. I am currently employed with a county government. The perks are a lifetime pension at retirement, paycheck every two weeks, and free health insurance since I am single (if I had kids they would cost). On the other hand I have to show up 40 hours a week at a specified time, deal with bosses, general office BS, and routine mind knumbing work. My income is dead end at 61k a year, no more raises except COLA. We have experienced one round of layoffs and another is coming in February. Bosses like to threaten us with this as a way of control. I have a four year college degree and have been an employee for 14 years at the county.
The population is constantly increasing while home building is lagging. Eventually we will be in a sellers market again. Thanks for any replies. I live in Houston if that helps with any thoughts.

Wade do you wanna trade jobs
A guranteed pay check of $61,000 if I show up and work 40 hrs. Sign me up..

In this business we hope someone calls us so we can get a pay check, and can only hope a full week is 5 days, and less than 60-70 hrs when the calls do come.

Deal with bosses. .. As a home inspector every customer is the boss, the difference, you know what to expect from yoiur boss, as a home inspector we don't have a clue.
You may have done everthing right, if the customer thinks you screwed up, the customer can make life miserable, get you black balled in the real estate commuinty, sue you out of business, and cause you to lose your lic to inspect.

My wife works for the gov. A few things i didn't notice on your list.
Paid Vacations
Paid Sick Pay
Paid holidays.
1/2 of your social security paid by your employeer.
Workmans comp to get a paycheck if injured on the job.
Retirement after accumalation of 80 yrs of combined age and time on the job.

Thanks for the input guys. I figured I could get a straight answer from those who actually do it full time. Sounds like a big negative. There is no safety in having a job right now though even with the government. Everything is tough. Yeah Dan I forgot about the paid vacations and sick days. The sick days came in very handy last summer when I had shoulder surgery and was down for awhile. Dunno, I'll keep thinking.

Originally Posted by Wade Allen

I am a new member here and I was thinking about becoming a HI for a new career. I thought maybe some of you seasoned inspectors could help me out with this decision. I am currently employed with a county government. The perks are a lifetime pension at retirement, paycheck every two weeks, and free health insurance since I am single (if I had kids they would cost). On the other hand I have to show up 40 hours a week at a specified time, deal with bosses, general office BS, and routine mind knumbing work. My income is dead end at 61k a year, no more raises except COLA. We have experienced one round of layoffs and another is coming in February. Bosses like to threaten us with this as a way of control. I have a four year college degree and have been an employee for 14 years at the county. I do own several single family rent houses and I do have a general interest in real estate. I have spent a fair amount of time rehabbing houses so I have some limited knowledge. I fully understand home buying is currently slow but everything cycles. The population is constantly increasing while home building is lagging. Eventually we will be in a sellers market again. Thanks for any replies. I live in Houston if that helps with any thoughts.

Ok....Ok....OK and of course OK

I hate to tell you this Wade but what you are making right now is more than what the public can afford. You are talking to the folks that pay you that pay check. I know it is difficult idea to swallow but maybe not we but the folks in your county are the ones paying you the b loted income of 61,000.00 a year plus benefits, plus retirement, plus, I am sure, medial, sick days, holidays, vacation days. Do you have an idea of exactly what your neighbors are patying you for a gross.

You say "Just the COLA. You say that with desperation. You also state your 4 year college degree as though because you went to college you deserve far greater than what you are getting right now.

I ask again. Do you realize what the total outlay of funds your fellow tax payers are paying the county for you? You make it sound....wait, let's stop here a moment.

I apologize for what I have said and what I am about to say that may offend you. This is not an attack on you personally but on society as a whole with this mentality of thinking.

What in Gods name do you really think you are worth. You have a wonderful job with great benefits and retirement and three or several rent houses all made off of the tax and fees to the general public which is already strapped way to far as it is and you are sounding like the poor beet up county worker that everyone is taking advantage off and the dead end job you are in.

For some reason society has taught everyone that going to college for for years is such ass breaking work that you deserve so much more for that hard work. It got you multiple rent houses, 61,000.00 a year plus plus, plus, plus.

Seriously.

"The perks are a lifetime pension at retirement, paycheck every two weeks, and free health insurance since I am single"

What the hell are you thinking??????

"On the other hand I have to show up 40 hours a week at a specified time, deal with bosses, general office BS, and routine mind knumbing work. My income is dead end at 61k a year, no more raises except COLA. We have experienced one round of layoffs and another is coming in February. Bosses like to threaten us with this as a way of control."

What the hell is the matter with societies thinking. Has everyone gone completely in freaking sane. What are you whining about. I am so tired of the twisted mentality.

You may be facing lay off. Well, you know what. You should be laid off with half of the rest of the city, county, state and federal workers. We could not afford you and everyone else that came on all these long years. City managers sitting around thinking of where they can spend all that money they were raking in and all the while patting themselves on the back boasting about what a wonderful job they did in their way over paid job. Also sitting around thinking that since they did such a wonderful job they should be making a quarter mill or more with their assistants being paid three times what they are worth..

You know what. They did not do a great job. The economy, no matter how make believe it was did the great job and they took the credit for all those folks moving here and paying fees and bloated taxes all those years

So bloated that a county worker makes 61,000.00 a year plus plus plus plus and could afford to by homes to rent out to make more money.

All off of everyone else s fees and taxes and the saddest part about it....You produced nothing. The people moving in and opening businesses produced it all for you and every other government worker.

Was this thread a sad joke on everyone to see what kind of rise they could get out of everyone.

If you get laid off go get a job at home depot to tied yourself over until you can get the gov job back. Oh, I am sorry, The Home Depot is below someone with 4 years of college.

Yeah yeah, I know, I am going to get some serious grief over this one. Let it rip. I know this thread was a joke so go ahead.

The sad part is that all those gov workers will be picketing marching right by everyones home and business that are paying them demanding their job back and more money and bennies to boot.

By the way. Have you done a search on the amount of inspectors in and around Houston. Probably not considering you are on here asking home inspectors what they think about you getting into the biz because you might be getting laid off when home inspectors for the vast majority have lost half the work they used to.

MY GOD MAN. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING. OH, I AM SORRY, YOU WERE NOT THINKING.

Ahhh I guess Wade must have hit a sore spot with Ted

Originally Posted by Dan Harris

Ahhh I guess Wade must have hit a sore spot with Ted

Not with Ted........ .......The Country.

A little edit here

That County Job after all is said and done with the "until you take your last breath pension and medical coverage" will proabaly cost tax payers well over a hundred thoudsand a year plus until you take that last breath............ not 61,000.00 a year. You know. If I actually had a brain or the patience to add it all up it would be far far far far more than that figured on the actual years worked to what you will finally get paid for a gross.

And you are complaining about your miserable job and the possibility of getting laid off.

County jobs were always meant to be....Pay is OK but damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, think about after I retire. Paid for, for life. Now it is, "I want it all because I so damn well deserve it and I want everything in the end as well."

Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

Keep the day job!

I've got losers here in Dallas doing inspections for $150.00 cause their wives is threatening to leave them if they don't bring some type of money home. I'm serious as a heart attack. My son (the realtor) forwarded me this jerk's email that he is mass mailing out to agents. 150.00 WTF! rick

Rick,

Do some digging on that HI's license status. There are more and more Texas HIs letting their licenses expire or go in-active, dropping insurance coverage and are still out there inspecting. Some of them are in our D/FW community and there are a couple who have had their licenses revoked by TREC this past year and they are still inspecting and on agent referral lists.

There is a common list of HIs that is being kept by many of us around the state when we run across those with the expired/revoked/in-active licenses. There are approaching 20 HIs that we are aware of at this time.

Problem is trying to get TREC to address the problem.

Wade -

Search the threads here at IN and at TIJ. Many folks asking similar questions as you and are getting pretty much the same reply as you've seen here.

Keep your day job!

In spite of what Champions School tells you it is not a get rich quick/easy world. Today's real estate market is in a terrible state. Scott's timeline in the post above about 3-4 years to make ends meet is more likely 6+ years in such a market as we have today.

A few years ago things were much different. We will not likely see such in our lifetimes again. At best the market may actually level out and return to the true normal without the bogus inflated games that were prevalent.

I used to live/inspect in Houston and have many good, close inspector friends down there and they are all experiencing extremely slow times.

As Rick noted about the $150 offers from some HIs ... well, those "drive bys" have always been around, are around today and will be here tomorrow ... but an honest and good inspector can't beat the price. AND ... I can assure you that most all clients (especially these days) are about the cheapest price possible. Trying to sell your inspection services/expertise and the rate that is required for same won't mean a hill of beans to the client in most cases.

Inspections are optional items and when it comes to saving more $$ that is one less thing the client has to fork over to buy a house.

Do your research, but don't expect any sort of windfall.

Go to the TREC (Texas Real Estate Commission) website and click on the Inspectors tab and read all the requirements it takes for you to get your license. I hope you have a well-healed checkbook for all the steps you will have to go through to get your license before you can even do one inspection.

Also look at Brian's "Cost of Business". You can purchase/download from this forums website and plug in numbers and calculate what you would need to make to cover your insurance, expenses, etc., etc.. Many HIs today would do well to use that application ... especially those that are charging only $150 per inspection.

Best of luck in additional research.

Sorry to go off topic here. Ted, we have illegals protesting being fired from their jobs because they could not provide documentation to their employer. What do you think about that? 8 cited protesting Chipotle firings in Minn. | Minneapolis and St. Paul | kare11.com

Wade,

Ted articulated my feelings precisely regarding the overwhelming cost of government; no offense intended. When I saw that Camden NJ laid off a large portion of their police force in an effort toward a balanced budget, I said, "it's about time". I had empathy, but no sympathy for the laid off workers and I doubt they had any sympathy for me when the housing market tanked. Government has become so bloated that it's destroying the american dream. It's so simple; if you can't afford it, don't buy it! If you can afford it and don't absolutely need it, don't buy it.

I have one of those college degrees and the years spent obtaining it were the biggest party of my life and a great learning experience. My first rate education taught me how to ask intelligent questions. As with most college degrees, the "new graduate" can't actually "do" anything of value. When people whine about a college degree entitling them to some elevated standard of living, I cringe. (again, no offense intended). The fact is this - the market will determine the value of a person's work, not their real or imagined qualifications or their perception of their personal "value". I began my career working for the Naval Facilities Engineering Command in Phila. On more than one occasion, I've fantasized about how I'd be on easy street if I'd simply followed through with it. I left that job after 3 years because I saved the taxpayers $300K one day in 1985 and absolutely noone cared and I wanted to make more $ (in those days, government workers were paid @75% of private industry) - ahhh ... the idealistic fog of youth.

In our area (northeast pa), home inspection is a wasteland and expected to be so for the forseeable future.

Invariably, the market will turn around, but it will take years to recover to "normal" and I don't expect to ever see the 2004-2006 market again.

My intention is to stick with home inspection because our business is established, currently paying the bills (most of them) and I love the work; however, I am seeking ways to supplement my income.

Per the almost unanimous comments on this thread, "keep your day job". At most, you may wish to venture into this field (after working your county job) as a part time inspector with an established firm.

Suggest you set up a couple of "ride alongs" with a local inspector. You may have to pay up to @$50/ea, or nothing if the inspector's so inclined. Regardless, it will be invaluable experience for your landlord venture and will give you an "inside look" at the home inspection profession.

If you don't drop the idea entirely, at least go slowly and limit your risk.

Sorry if most of this looks like a rant, but I guess it is.

Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

Keep the day job!

I've got losers here in Dallas doing inspections for $150.00 cause their wives is threatening to leave them if they don't bring some type of money home. I'm serious as a heart attack. My son (the realtor) forwarded me this jerk's email that he is mass mailing out to agents. 150.00 WTF!

rick

Send me a copy of the email (sans your sons contact info) and I'll check him out myself. It would not surprise me that he is violating rules/regs in one way or another. Those $150 guys usually are.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Not with Ted........ .......The Country.

Ted,

FYI you should speak to TREC about your license info display on their Inspector verification function. Even though it shows "Active" they are still showing your expiration of 10/31/2010. I am sure you have renewed it but how many consumers are passing you up because of it? I ran the license stats for the January list and came across 60+ others just in a 7 county area around DFW that are like that as well.

Originally Posted by Ken Rowe

Sorry to go off topic here. Ted, we have illegals protesting being fired from their jobs because they could not provide documentation to their employer. What do you think about that? 8 cited protesting Chipotle firings in Minn. | Minneapolis and St. Paul | kare11.com

Gotta love yeah Ken.....Don't get me really going!

Originally Posted by Wade Allen

I am a new member here and I was thinking about becoming a HI for a new career. I thought maybe some of you seasoned inspectors could help me out with this decision. I am currently employed with a county government. The perks are a lifetime pension at retirement, paycheck every two weeks, and free health insurance since I am single (if I had kids they would cost). On the other hand I have to show up 40 hours a week at a specified time, deal with bosses, general office BS, and routine mind knumbing work. My income is dead end at 61k a year, no more raises except COLA. We have experienced one round of layoffs and another is coming in February. Bosses like to threaten us with this as a way of control. I have a four year college degree and have been an employee for 14 years at the county. I do own several single family rent houses and I do have a general interest in real estate. I have spent a fair amount of time rehabbing houses so I have some limited knowledge. I fully understand home buying is currently slow but everything cycles. The population is constantly increasing while home building is lagging. Eventually we will be in a sellers market again. Thanks for any replies. I live in Houston if that helps with any thoughts.

The grass is not always greener on the other side! I would keep the 61K/Year and wait it out to see what happens with the layoffs and this economy. The minute you throw it away the clock starts and if the HI business does not work it will be that much more difficult to re-enter the workplace.

Um...I did not mean to offend anyone on here. I think some of what I have said has been misinterpreted. The only reason I mention a college degree was to define my background and prove my ability to write reports and write clearly. Regarding the county job, man I dont know what to say. I realize I dont produce anything and that bothers me. It irritates me everyday to see the waste that goes on. It really is not in my nature to be a government employee. I understand some of the grief I am getting. Regarding the rent houses. I will defend myself here. That was all me. I am not thanking tax payers for any it nor do I owe taxpayers for it. I started a lawn maintenance compamy in high school, grew it through college. Got a govenment job making 23k a year and kept mowing the lawns and doing small landscaping jobs. Bought my first rental and lived in it for a few years while I fixed it up. Did the first 3 that way. All my own sweat equity and the funds from mowing lawns. All I was asking for was a little advice on here. Now I am a little hot under the collar. Anyway, thanks for the advice. Its time for me to move on.

Wade

Its unfortunate you got dumped on. Don't apologize for your inquiry, there is simply no need to, it appears some are jealous of what you do and what you have done for yourself.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Wade

Its unfortunate you got dumped on. Don't apologize for your inquiry, there is simply no need to, it appears some are jealous of what you do and what you have done for yourself.

Not jelous at all. Like I said I did not mean to dump on anyone directly. I just hear more and more of that on a weekly basis about the lousy job the folks have that make good money and are and will be taken care of for life.

I appoligize to Wade or anyone else. Like I said, it is not toward and individual but toward the tremendous amount of folks I know or know thru other folks that have very comfortable gov jobs and the sad part is mot, or I will say, the vast majority complain about the raw deal they are getting.

This country is hurting and the folks that are working and making decent money and bennies are really not even aware that the country is hurting. Have you noticed the restaurants filled all the time and the malls and other stores packed. I often wonder what planet some folks live on.

The large part of the problem is that most folks that entered the work force or finally had there job take off in the past 20 years have no clue what a real crash is. Everyone in all sides of the gov are responsible for not allowing the natural correction to take place. With out it things are more than likely to get much worse fast or a little better then hyper inflation will hit. May the big man keep that from happening.

Sorry for the rant folks. So for any individual personal attack on anyone.

May we all prosper in the near future but in the mean time.....Watch your pocket book and livelihood very carefully.

Originally Posted by Wade Allen

All I was asking for was a little advice on here. Now I am a little hot under the collar. Anyway, thanks for the advice. Its time for me to move on.

If you a little hot under the collar, due to the replies here, I'ts good you came to this site for info.
If you went to another open to the public site the members there would have given you very little info, then would have told you to pay $289.00 to get the real answer in the members only section.
Then the fleecing just begins until your broke or until you figure out the majority of those guys are on another planet and don't have a clue about the home inspection or any other profession.

Enough has already been said but Wade, I am in your shoes somewhat. I wanted to become a HI and did 4 years ago. I have a great job, been there 33 years and could retire with a full pension with benefits today if I want too. I'm only 54 and need to work at least till I'm 62. This is a rough business to make it full time. These guys are correct in telling you to stick it out, don't quit your job. If you want to be a HI then I recommend you go to a HI school and get some more training, build your web-site, contact your Realtors, inspect a few of your families homes, maybe your rental house for practice and do it part time. Find a mentor to ride along with. Get your E&O and liability insurance, check out all the costs. I stayed in my job and plan on another few years. This is my 4th year in HI and I still could not make it if I were full time, glad I have another job. I found for me that it takes the first 8 Hi just to break even. I made more money in my HVAC business, I was a Rheem Dealer part time for 15 years also. Got tired of dragging furnaces out of basements. Part time I only do 1-3 a week after 3 years so do all your research before you quit your job.

Our older son just got his first real job out of college, actually he got it before he really graduates! He is making right at $30K a year. It is a state law enforcement job. Great benefits, state car and a 4 day work week(on call 24/7). It is sad that our law enforcement is paid so little, but as our son says, it is a job and many of my friends with engineering and law degrees are flipping burgers or have moved back home!

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Our older son just got his first real job out of college, actually he got it before he really graduates! He is making right at $30K a year. It is a state law enforcement job. Great benefits, state car and a 4 day work week(on call 24/7). It is sad that our law enforcement is paid so little, but as our son says, it is a job and many of my friends with engineering and law degrees are flipping burgers or have moved back home!

The bigger metrtoplexs pay far greater to starting cops with a 4 year degree.

You did hear that New Jersey just got rid of or laid off or what ever you wish to call it half of the force in areas. All that were hired in the bloat of the last 10 years when they had to spend the budget money or lose it. The greater Dallas police force hired hundred of cops over the last 5 years. The tax payers or city counsel or whom ever voted on a raise in taxes to keep the services (fools) now they are stuck with that cost for years or forever. A whole lot of traffic cops, lining the highways everywhere you go. You will see city after county after state after government agency deleting the serious bloat they have. It is inevitable.

No offense Scott but If one hires on with any police department then they know the stakes when hired...both physically and financially. Just because someone chooses to carry a gun to work does not and should not demand much higher pay. Most of the time...or should I say, almost all the time there job is extremely mundane and safer than many other types of work out there.

Why do you think police are worth more? Because they chose a particular job. High rise workers, construction workers, fisherman, machinery operators all etc etc and I could name them all day are much more dangerous jobs with the workers lives on the line constantly...where is there higher pay. Being a cop is a choice, not a demand.

Sorry....another rant. I gotta stop that.

Just adding my 3 1/2 cents worth of the other side of thought which no one ever considers. I was on the top of a 21 foot little Giant a frame in the middle of last week reaching over my head nailing back up a 4 by 8 sheet of soffit work that was coming down. I only made the equivalent of your sons police or law enforcement job for helping that friend out for the day . One slip, tip, moment of not paying attention and I could have been dead when I came off of that ladder.

It is a shame construction workers do not make a tremendous amount more for their hard and dangerous and sometime heroic work. One split second of poor concentration or a defective ladder or some fool banging into that ladder.....dead.

Choices Mr Scott. All for 30,000.00 a year and......no benefits Poor bastards out there everyday risking their lives.

Tough time to considering a change in professions. I am a newer HI and I'm getting by, some weeks good others not so good. It is rewarding work and I like meeting and talking with potential homebuyers. At some point I hope to add a full time inspector and then focus a bit of my efforts elsewhere. I find it's more fun building a business than actually working in it

But Ted...Don't be shy, how do you really feel...

Originally Posted by Ian Page

But Ted...Don't be shy, how do you really feel...

Yes Ian. I definitely have to curb that...probably quite a bit. I get emails from both sides with every opinion I express. Mostly for the particular thoughts and of course some that do not agree.

In any case I am going to be making a serious effort of letting folks speak for themselves...at least a little bit. I have been an advocate for so long for those that serious deserve more that I can not keep out of the mix.

10 to 15,000 just for a medical policy today. I think the non educated that never get benefits need a serious pay raise by about 10,000.00 a year just to buy medical coverage and then a raise so they can live a little better. They are worth it.

I promise to try to keep the opinions down just a bit.

...Ain't nothing wrong with open, honest and thoughtful discourse. There's a lot to be learned and I, for one, haven't finished yet...