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  1. #1
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    Oct 2014
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    Santa Cruz, CA
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    Exclamation Solid surface Cert?

    Dear users,

    1. Are there certification requirements for solid surface materials used to build shower trays (NOT in kitchen counters, only shower trays)? Like chemical emissions, fire, anti bacteria, etc?

    2. If yes, there are 100s of two person shops in the US, making those trays as custom job, by pouring in cast, I mean mixing the resin with granite filler. Then how do those guys deal with requirements if there is any? If there is any, can using certified resin brands help with some kind of self declaration/certification? Or?

    3. If there are requirements for this material, who is the regulating body please?

    Thanks a lot for your attention))

    ConnorA

    Last edited by Connor Akally; 01-12-2015 at 11:53 AM.
    NHIE Practice Exam

  2. #2
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    Default

    Hello Connor Akally,

    Welcome aboard. Enjoy your visit here at InspectionNews and if there is anything I can help you with just let me know.

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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Windsor Ontario
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    Default Re: Solid surface Cert?

    Your best to research material testing standards. Most products are based on an established industry based material standards such ASTM

    Building & Construction Standards - ASTM International

    or in Canada
    Building Materials | Construction, Buildings & Infrastructure | CSA Group


  4. #4
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    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: Solid surface Cert?

    From the IRC: (bold is mine)
    - P2701.1 Quality of fixtures.
    - - Plumbing fixtures, faucets and fixture fittings shall be constructed of approved materials, shall have smooth impervious surfaces, shall be free from defects and concealed fouling surfaces, and shall conform to the standards cited in this code. Plumbing fixtures shall be provided with an adequate supply of potable water to flush and keep the fixtures in a clean and sanitary condition without danger of backflow or cross connection.


    - TABLE P2701.1 PLUMBING FIXTURES, FAUCETS AND FIXTURE FITTINGS
    - - Plastic shower receptors and shower stall ANSI Z124.2, CSA B45.5

    - SECTION R202 DEFINITIONS
    - - APPROVED. Acceptable to the building official.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Solid surface Cert?

    If I read Jerry's post correctly, this applies to the materials used, but not necessarily the finished product, with the exception of the condition of the surfaces.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Solid surface Cert?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    If I read Jerry's post correctly, this applies to the materials used, but not necessarily the finished product, with the exception of the condition of the surfaces.
    Gunnar,

    "approved materials" means everything: the "materials" used to make the material the shower receptor is made of, the resulting "material" used to make the shower receptor, and the "material" itself, i.e., the "shower receptor" itself.

    In practical real life, the only thing the building official is likely going to be concerned about is the "material/shower receptor" installed.

    Kind of like the building official is not going to be concerned of the PVC material formula used for the PVC shower liner, only that the shower liner is suitable for that use.

    Thus, acrylic, cultured marble, fiberglass, vinyl, etc., are all used for shower receptors, and the manufacturer is going to (presumably, anyway) back the shower receptor for breakage or premature deterioration, and if the manufacturer doesn't back it, the contractor will (in fact, the contractor is the first source of backing up a product, the contract then goes to the supplier, and the supplier goes to the manufacturer).

    So, if the shower receptor is smooth so as to not collect dirt and grime, had the required 1" lip, etc., and is not so thin that stepping into it will step through it, I suspect the building official will "approve" it.

    Also keep in mind that if the building official has any questions of a material's (shower receptor's) suitability for use, the cost goes to the contractor or anyone other than the building official and his department: (underlining and bold are mine)
    - R104.9 Approved materials and equipment. - - Materials, equipment and devices approved by the building official shall be constructed and installed in accordance with such approval.
    - - R104.9.1 Used materials and equipment.
    - - - Used materials, equipment and devices shall not be reused unless approved by the building official.
    - R104.10 Modifications.
    - - Wherever there are practical difficulties involved in carrying out the provisions of this code, the building official shall have the authority to grant modifications for individual cases, provided the building official shall first find that special individual reason makes the strict letter of this code impractical and the modification is in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code and that such modification does not lessen health, life and fire safety or structural requirements. The details of action granting modifications shall be recorded and entered in the files of the department of building safety.
    - - R104.10.1 Flood hazard areas.
    - - - The building official shall not grant modifications to any provision related to flood hazard areas as established by Table R301.2(1) without the granting of a variance to such provisions by the board of appeals.
    - R104.11 Alternative materials, design and methods of construction and equipment.
    - - The provisions of this code are not intended to prevent the installation of any material or to prohibit any design or method of construction not specifically prescribed by this code, provided that any such alternative has been approved. An alternative material, design or method of construction shall be approved where the building official finds that the proposed design is satisfactory and complies with the intent of the provisions of this code, and that the material, method or work offered is, for the purpose intended, at least the equivalent of that prescribed in this code. Compliance with the specific performance-based provisions of the International Codes in lieu of specific requirements of this code shall also be permitted as an alternate.
    - - R104.11.1 Tests.
    - - - Whenever there is insufficient evidence of compliance with the provisions of this code, or evidence that a material or method does not conform to the requirements of this code, or in order to substantiate claims for alternative materials or methods, the building official shall have the authority to require tests as evidence of compliance to be made at no expense to the jurisdiction. Test methods shall be as specified in this code or by other recognized test standards. In the absence of recognized and accepted test methods, the building official shall approve the testing procedures. Tests shall be performed by an approved agency. Reports of such tests shall be retained by the building official for the period required for retention of public records

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Solid surface Cert?

    Jerry,

    First of all, thank you very much for your attention,

    I read the section P2709 Shower Receptors, thanks again for your guidance,

    I have one more question then; and thanks in advance, for your patience with my English:

    About the curb threshold; do we have to have a shower tray with 1" raised sides? What if the shower is accessable one? Like here:

    The No-Threshold Shower: Accessibility With Style

    I am guessing that if the floor is water proof then we dont need receptors, right? In that case, is curb treshold mandatory if the floor is NOT water proof?

    And last one: The product I am working on will have a shower tray like the ones below:

    The Shower Lab Solid Surface Shower Trays - Line, Zone, Freedom, Level, Moon, Galaxy Ranges

    Is that one acceptable in the US? If it depends, then depends on what please?

    Thanks a lot for your attention,

    Connor

    Last edited by Connor Akally; 01-12-2015 at 11:52 AM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Solid surface Cert?

    Quote Originally Posted by Connor Akally View Post
    I read the section P2709 Shower Receptors, thanks again for your guidance,

    I have one more question then; and thanks in advance, for your patience with my English:

    About the curb threshold; do we have to have a shower tray with 1" raised sides? What if the shower is accessable one?


    Yes, the 1" raised sides are required:
    - From the IRC: (bold and underlining are mine)
    - -
    P2709.1 Construction. - - - Where a shower receptor has a finished curb threshold, it shall be not less than 1 inch (25 mm) below the sides and back of the receptor. The curb shall be not less than 2 inches (51 mm) and not more than 9 inches (229 mm) deep when measured from the top of the curb to the top of the drain. The finished floor shall slope uniformly toward the drain not less than 1/4 unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) nor more than 1/2 unit vertical per 12 units horizontal (4-percent slope) and floor drains shall be flanged to provide a water-tight joint in the floor.

    The opening where you enter does not require a raised threshold or curb. The intent it so that no leakage goes out where one cannot see it, and if the drain clogs up and the receptor fills with water, the user will see it overflowing out the front of the shower (the entry).

    A zero-threshold hold shower still requires the other sides (i.e., "sides and back") while allowing the entry to be even with the floor outside the shower.

    The shower shown in this link still has sides and back, only the front is open:


    The No-Threshold Shower: Accessibility With Style

    That would still require a shower pan under the shower floor, the front of the pan liner would come up the front of the shower and turn under the first tile on the floor, the pan liner would turn up the walls at least 2" above the top of the tile floor opening into the front of the shower (the pan liner is shown in the drawings on that page, however, the liner is not designated or identified, but it is shown coming up the back wall).
    - From the IRC: (bold and underlining are mine)
    - - P2709.2 Lining required. - - - The adjoining walls and floor framing enclosing on-site built-up shower receptors shall be lined with one of the following materials:
    - - - - 1. Sheet lead;
    - - - - 2. Sheet copper;
    - - - - 3. Plastic liner material that complies with ASTM D 4068 or ASTM D 4551;
    - - - - 4. Hot mopping in accordance with Section P2709.2.3; or
    - - - - 5. Sheet-applied load-bearing, bonded waterproof membranes that comply with ANSI A118.10.
    - - - The lining material shall extend not less than 2 inches (51 mm) beyond or around the rough jambs and not less than 2 inches (51 mm) above finished thresholds. Sheet-applied load bearing, bonded waterproof membranes shall be applied in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

    I am guessing that if the floor is water proof then we dont need receptors, right? In that case, is curb treshold mandatory if the floor is NOT water proof? In other words, can one install something like this in the US withouthaving water proof floor:

    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/261279215856296859/
    That one above still shows a receptor - looks like a white molded acrylic/vinyl/plastic/fiberglass receptor.

    And last one: The product I am working on will have a shower tray like the ones below:

    The Shower Lab Solid Surface Shower Trays - Line, Zone, Freedom, Level, Moon, Galaxy Ranges
    That looks like the same shower pan receptor as in the pinterest.com ones.

    Is that one acceptable in the US? If it depends, then depends on what please?


    Connor,

    It depends ... it depends on if the sides and back are 1" minimum higher than the opening at the front and if it meets the standards listed in previously posts.


    And it depends on if the building official will "approve" its use, and if it has the 1" minimum high sides and back, and has been evaluated to meet the required standard, then approval by building official should be easy - he/she has the standard to fall back on as to why he/she approved it ... it meets the required standard.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
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    Default Re: Solid surface Cert?

    Jerry,

    Thanks, all that was informative, and warnings were good too..

    So, I passed the 3D of the tray and the code links to my partner who is an engineer, and native speaker,

    Jerry, thanks a lot again for all your attention))

    Connor..


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