Thread: inspector certifications

Hello to everyone,

I'm a fairly new home inspector in the salt lake valley. I found this web site and decided to try it out. I do have a question for everyone.

what licenses / certifications are available and or required to become a home inspector?

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There are several associations available, some good and others not so good.

Licensing depends on your state.

BTW,

Welcome to the board

Originally Posted by James O'Brien

Hello to everyone,

I'm a fairly new home inspector in the salt lake valley. I found this web site and decided to try it out. I do have a question for everyone.

what licenses / certifications are available and or required to become a home inspector?

James - Welcome to the board!
Certification/licensure differs by state, and sometimes, city. For instance, in PA there is a Home Inspection Law that we must comply with, but no state licensing. There is a license required in the city of Philadelphia, though. The state law requires us to be full members of a national organization, such as NAHI or ASHI, and to purchase E&O and liability in$urance.

In Utah you can be working in the coal mine yesterday and have some cards printed and be inspecting multi-million dollar homes up in the resorts today! Sad but true!

Right now in our profession we do not have any true third party certifications for the profession. All of the current so called certifications are done in a rather self serving manner. The various organizations certify their own members. One calls all of the members certified if they pass a simple online exam; other organization certify their members after the complete a number of inspections and pass a national exam; another had a couple levels that require testing.

Now if we had an organization that was not connected to any of the various home inspector associations that offered a true certification with testing, educational, experience requirement, CE, etc., then we would be able to say that YES, we really do have a true certification. A true certification program like this would be open to anyone that meets the requirements. I do not expect to see any of the current associations doing this simply due to the cost involved and they would have to allow anyone to get the certification that meets the requirements without joining their association.

Out in Utah AII and ASHI are the larger organizations.

James,

I have an Inspector that has been with me just over 1 year from Salt Lake City, Utah. He had been an Inspector out there for a couple of years.

No Licensing in Utah currently.

Our Office Inspector is with NACHI ( Home Inspector - InterNACHI: home inspection/inspector ) and has just renewed his NACHI Membership today...

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

...Out in Utah AII and ASHI are the larger organizations.

Some may claim to be larger but NACHI is Best...

Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty

Some may claim to be larger but NACHI is Best...

Everyone has their own opinion as to which orginization is the best or worst and it really depends on the person and how you feel. I personally do not belong to any orginization. I inspect according to the standards of the State of Indiana Home Inspectors Licensing Board, which are based on the ASHI SOP and continuing ed is a requirement for licensing renewal.

In the days of the past, I think that the biggest incentive for joining an orginization is to be able to state that you inspections are performed according to the XXXX standards and attend at least XX hours of continuing ed per year. In my personal opinion, if your inspections do not greatly exceed what the standards state as acceptible performance on the inspectors part, you have no business inspecting homes.

I have considered joining an orginization or 2 so that I will be accessible through their web site, but so far haven't bit the bullet yet.

Originally Posted by Jon Randolph

In my personal opinion, if your inspections do not greatly exceed what the standards state as acceptible performance on the inspectors part, you have no business inspecting homes.

VERY well said.

Originally Posted by Jon Randolph

I have considered joining an orginization or 2 so that I will be accessible through their web site, but so far haven't bit the bullet yet.

I got a taste with ASHI and NACHI and at the time, they both didn't offer anything that I could have gotten somewhere else. When it comes to business through these organizations' websites, for me, it only brought in a couple of jobs.

Note: Most people do not know about ASHI or NACHI around here. Source: A few ASHI and NACHI members in this area and from my clients.

Personally I feel all property inspectors should at the very least hold ICC Certification as a Combination Residential Dwelling Inspector. Of course this by no means guarantees success or that the inspector is better than anybody else, but does lend credence that they are somewhat serious about advancing their education. It takes a combination of selling one’s self image as a real pro and then following through and proving such to one’s clients and the agents who retain them. The reward is minimal compared to RE agents while the legal exposure great and has often made me wonder if most of us aren’t a bit daft? Our job may well be one of the most inequitable situations in any comparable field, but unfortunately the sad fact is it's self propagated by our own hand.
I could go on regarding this subject, but much has already been said and anyone contemplating becoming a property inspector or in its early stages will find a wealth of opinions plus a fantastic amount of collective knowledge by researching the archives of this bulletin board.

i,m proud to be a member of an organization----and even prouder to tell my client when asked--that i am a member of nahi---trained and certifided by ahit and have e&o insurance,, and that i try to average 35 plus hours of continuing education every year---i also enjoy and learn alot from our monthly rmnahi meetings -where you rub elbows with fellow inspectors-----if you ignore the politics of organizations and which one claims to be the best--they are well worth the $225 dues---i recommend joining

In all due respect Charlie 35 hours a year for continuing education is absurd ! 24 hours in a day, 8 hours work, 8 hours sleep leaves 8 hours for family, recreation and study. Say one studies a minimum of 2 hours a week less 2 weeks for a vacation. That leaves 50 weeks X 2 hours. That’s 100 hours Charlie and that’s what I would call an absolute minimum. Most of the inspectors I know personally are closer to 200 hours a year and then add association chapter meetings, tool boxes and state conferences not to mention on-line learning devices like this one. There is one S-load of knowledge out there and only a short career span to absorb it. Unfortunately by the time you think you know enough you’re too old to climb a ladder.

with what organization are your ceu listed and posted

sorry jerry that was meant for you

jerry after rereading your response-----i said i average---certified ceu--where u spend money to learn from an organization--not read web sites like this one or any other home inspector journal i buy or everyday on the job education---i believe u were being a little hostile in your response---if i add in all my readings on this web and other literture read during the year---everyones or at least mine are well over 500---i was only voicing my opinion on what i think organizations do in response to the opening thread--on organizations---there are alot of HI's----that do nothing and are unisured---chill out

Originally Posted by CHARLIE VAN FLEET

-i said i average---certified ceu--

Charlie,

Actually you said:

Originally Posted by CHARLIE VAN FLEET

that i try to average 35 plus hours of continuing education every year---

Nothing in there about "certified" CEU.

Also, "certified" by whom?

Now I'm down to about 60 per year for my contractor and inspector licenses, and about another 14-28 per year for home inspectors, and I'm a retired home inspector not needing any? Go figure.
I used to average about 80 hours per year in continuing education provided by code authorities (guess that would count as "certified" as it is acceptable for continuing education for my state contractors and inspectors licenses), and about another 80 hours per year for home inspector continuing education (guess that would count as "certified" as it was acceptable to various home inspector associations).

Then ... if I counted in my time here ...

jerry CEU STANDS FOR CONTINUING EDUCATION UNITS---CERTIFIED ORGANIZATIONS LIKE NAHI-ASHI AND MAYBE YOURS CALL THEM THAT-UNITS ARE POSTED ON YOUR MEMBERSHIP CRITERIA---AS I STATED I BELONG TO NAHI---AGAIN I WAS ONLY REPLYING TO THE GENTLEMANS OPENING THREAD---IT WASN'T A BRAGGING CONTEST BY EITHER OF US-----AGAIN BE HELPFUL TO THOSE ASKING ADVICE AND DON'T BE HOSTILE TO OTHERS GIVING SIMPLY THAT---OK

This year (2007) I only had 126 hours, and that sounds like a bunch but it really was not all that much. Right at 70 hours was a course held at a local community college on residental framing. It was a 3 hour class that met 2 times a week for 12 weeks. The time flew by, except for the homework. Yes, homework! The sad thing is that my 11 year old son had to help me with some math formulas!

dealing with two jerry's now---james i hope you got something out of our advice-----education is great and there is not a contest on who has the most-where you get in from--but what you do with it----get what you can and when you can---the organizations is up to you---but check them out and do what you think is best for your business and your best interest--good luck and welcome aboard--over

Originally Posted by CHARLIE VAN FLEET

jerry CEU STANDS FOR CONTINUING EDUCATION UNITS---CERTIFIED ORGANIZATIONS LIKE NAHI-ASHI AND MAYBE YOURS CALL THEM THAT-UNITS ARE POSTED ON YOUR MEMBERSHIP CRITERIA---AS I STATED I BELONG TO NAHI---AGAIN I WAS ONLY REPLYING TO THE GENTLEMANS OPENING THREAD---IT WASN'T A BRAGGING CONTEST BY EITHER OF US-----AGAIN BE HELPFUL TO THOSE ASKING ADVICE AND DON'T BE HOSTILE TO OTHERS GIVING SIMPLY THAT---OK

Take a deep breath, Charlie.

I don't see how Jerry was bragging or being hostile. Just stating what his CE was for a given year.

I think if you look all through this message board you'll find he's very helpful and responds to a ton of questions.

As others have stated, there are different associations all touting their "certifications". You may be wise to go to a couple of events/meetings of any association that interests you to get a feel of your local membership before you join any. That's advice I've been given in the past and am doing just that now.

Rick

If nothing else this website is better then watching a soap opera.
Actually I really appreciate the resposes everyone has given, they will help. Thanks to everyone.

rick the word absurd----is offensive and rude ----james was asking for advice---thats what i gave as a NEW inspector going thru what he is---we have all been there---no need for such a well respected contributor as you stated---to make such a statement--if he has advice give it in a professional way to help all- and use educational and veteran advice-----if i called your advice absurd--would you like it--i,ve been in business for four years--let him make a good example--and what jerry are to refering too---i breathe perfectly---

[quote=CHARLIE VAN FLEET;29732]

and that i try to average 35 plus hours of continuing education every year

I think of continuing education as more of a formal/structure educational format. Not just sitting at a computer reading what others have written or reading a magazine. No trade out there would consider that as "continuing education".

i also enjoy and learn alot from our monthly rmnahi meetings

He is saying this is educational also, but it sound like he does not feel that it falls under "continuing education".

This is how I read it and I don't see any problem with it.

Originally Posted by James O'Brien

If nothing else this website is better then watching a soap opera.

Yes it is!!

Originally Posted by CHARLIE VAN FLEET

rick the word absurd----is offensive and rude ----james was asking for advice---thats what i gave as a NEW inspector going thru what he is---we have all been there---no need for such a well respected contributor as you stated---to make such a statement--if he has advice give it in a professional way to help all- and use educational and veteran advice-----if i called your advice absurd--would you like it--i,ve been in business for four years--let him make a good example--and what jerry are to refering too---i breathe perfectly---

I didn't see it as an attack on you at all, that's all.

The deep breath comment WAS BECAUSE YOU SEEMED AGITATED. No need to get worked up over this or any MB.

Originally Posted by CHARLIE VAN FLEET

jerry CEU STANDS FOR CONTINUING EDUCATION UNITS---CERTIFIED ORGANIZATIONS LIKE NAHI-ASHI AND MAYBE YOURS CALL THEM THAT-UNITS ARE POSTED ON YOUR MEMBERSHIP CRITERIA---AS I STATED I BELONG TO NAHI---AGAIN I WAS ONLY REPLYING TO THE GENTLEMANS OPENING THREAD---IT WASN'T A BRAGGING CONTEST BY EITHER OF US-----AGAIN BE HELPFUL TO THOSE ASKING ADVICE AND DON'T BE HOSTILE TO OTHERS GIVING SIMPLY THAT---OK

Actually a CEU is not what any of the home inspector organizations provide. They might call it that, but a true CEU can only come from an approved provider that has shown that thee meet the criteria for offering a CEU program. This is done through this organization IACET - International Association for Continuing Education & Training

ASHI now calls their education CE hours.

Originally Posted by Kevin Luce

I think of continuing education as more of a formal/structure educational format. Not just sitting at a computer reading what others have written or reading a magazine. No trade out there would consider that as "continuing education".

Very True.

Originally Posted by Kevin Luce

He is saying this is educational also, but it sound like he does not feel that it falls under "continuing education".

Also true.

Originally Posted by Kevin Luce

This is how I read it and I don't see any problem with it.

Me neither!

scott--do you not think that nahi has a working aggrement with IACET TO ACCEPT MY CEU'S FOR SOMETHING I HAVE SPENT $1500 FOR and have certified paper work stating my attendance--if not is nahi a fraud come on you guys---to me that is a certifable ceu

rick if i said your last reply was absurd----what would you say---feel the punch----

Originally Posted by CHARLIE VAN FLEET

scott--do you not think that nahi has a working aggrement with IACET TO ACCEPT MY CEU'S FOR SOMETHING I HAVE SPENT $1500 FOR and have certified paper work stating my attendance--if not is nahi a fraud come on you guys---to me that is a certifable ceu

All I can tell you is that they are not listed on the IACET site, and you must be a member of their org to offer a "real" CEU. Outside of that I do not know much about NAHI's educational offerings.

OP....

National associations have their place and at times there is a great amount of debate and hostility amongst them. Read up and make a decision if you like....

I feel as a new inspector it's as important or more to find out what's happening on a local level. There's a lot of variation in laws and SOPs depending on where you are. Boards like this are a great place to keep an ear to the ground on the industry as a whole but there's a lot of useful stuff on a local level as well.

A national board like this has a fairly impersonal or even unfriendly tone at times (this thread for example). At every local ceu class I've ever been at it's a super friendly experience.

The annonymity of the interent often entices people to act in ways they never would face to face.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

IACET site, and you must be a member of their org to offer a "real" CEU.

Scott,

I have not read that site stuff all the way through, but, from the way I read what they are saying ... NAHI cannot provide a IACET CEU.

I see nothing on there about providing CEUs (plain, generic, CEUs), instead, I find several references to "may award IACET Continuing Education Units (CEUs)."

This is from that site: (bold is mine)

Continuing Education Units
- One Continuing Education Unit (CEU) is defined as ten contact hours of participation in an organized continuing education experience under responsible sponsorship, capable direction, and qualified instruction.

- The primary purpose of the CEU is to provide a permanent record of the educational accomplishments of an individual who has completed one or more significant non-credit educational experiences. Awarding the CEU approved by IACET also provides a quality indicator for your continuing education and training programs because it means you have been reviewed and approved for complying with internationally recognized standards.

Awarding CEUs
- IACET CEUs may be awarded by a college, association, company or any other organization willing and able to meet each of the ANSI/IACET Standards established for the use of the IACET CEU. The Standards can be purchased at www.iacet.org. Note that awarding IACET CEUs requires that a permanent record be established for each individual to whom IACET CEUs are awarded, and a transcript of that record must be made available upon request.

- The Authorized Provider application process is an authorization process whereby the organization submits representative samples of its educational offerings to be reviewed for compliance with the Standards. The applicant also agrees to an on-site visit to verify the contents of the written application.

- Only those programs that are rigorous and long enough to be of significant educational experience and for which a permanent record will be meaningful should be included in your IACET CEU program. For programs that meet all of the ANSI/IACET Standards, generally, this is recognized as a minimum of 30 minutes, unless otherwise specified by licensing or certifying agency standards for continuing education.

Calculation of CEUs
- One IACET CEU is awarded for each ten clock hours (sixty-minutes=one clock hour) of instruction hours involved in the program. Instructional hours do not include time involved in coffee breaks, meals, social activities or business and committee meetings.

- Determine the number of contact hours by adding all countable portions of the learning event per instructions above. (Example: A learning event has six 50-minute sessions with 10 minutes between for set-up. The number of contact hours would be computed as: 6 X 50 = 300 total minutes in organized, interactive learning / 60 = 5 contact hours.). Divide the number of contact hours by 10 to get the number of CEU. (For the example above: 5/10 = .5 CEU.). CEU may be expressed in tenths of a CEU (i.e., 17 contact hours equate to 1.7 CEU; 3 contact hours equate to .3 CEU). Do not express the CEU past the tenths place (i.e., if your calculation should be 1.78, express this as 1.8 CEU).

(and that type of reference - see bold - goes on)

What did I miss in there?

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

What did I miss in there?

Nutin!

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

All I can tell you is that they are not listed on the IACET site, and you must be a member of their org to offer a "real" CEU. Outside of that I do not know much about NAHI's educational offerings.

In Illinois you are required to have 6 hours of continuing education per year to renew your license. The State approves various schools, organizations and programs that qualify for these hours.

Having said that, 6 hours is indeed absurd, however, more absurd is that there are inspectors who get fined/suspended for not meeting that requirement.

Originally Posted by CHARLIE VAN FLEET

rick if i said your last reply was absurd----what would you say---feel the punch----

Charlie, it wouldn't be the first, nor will it be the last time, that I say something absurd.

However, I don't believe that the comment was that your reply was absurd, simply that he felt the CE hours was too low.

"35 hours a year for continuing education is absurd"

Anyhow, I think we can all agreee that the more one learns about his chosen profession the better he should be at it.

Can we move on now?

Rick

Scott,

So, any association or person can provide "CEUs", just cannot call them "IACET CEUs".

Right?

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Scott,

So, any association or person can provide "CEUs", just cannot call them "IACET CEUs".

Right?

Jerry,

I know this question wasn't directed to me, but I'll throw my .02 in anyway.

I think the first question is why/what are you getting the CEU / CE (or whatever you want to call them) for?

If it's for state, association or certification requirement, then it is up to the requiring entity to determine what they will accept as CE or CEU regardless of IACET affiliation (or lack thereof).

I do see where having a certain "standard" for issuing CE/CEU would be benificial to all. I don't believe that exists in this industry as of yet.

***Disclaimer: the bold comments are in no way meant to turn this thread into another licensing/standards debate, however I'm sure someone will be around soon to make that happen!

Rick certainly nailed my meaning: [I]However, I don't believe that the comment was that your reply was absurd, simply that he felt the CE hours was too low.[/I] i.e. "35 hours a year for continuing education is absurd"
I'm a member of the California Real Estate Inspection Association (CREIA), a state association in which the board of directors approves the protocol for required the membership's annual CECs set up by the chair of the education committee. Unfortunately the total amount required is far below what I would have it, but hey, that's another story. Then there's the CEUs required by ICC including their renewal exams for certified inspectors. This again is minimal in nature as is just about every other inspector association national or state wise in my opinion.

My lament was never intended to be an attack on or a critizism of Charlie, but as a general statement that 15, 25, 30, etc CECs or CEUs, whatever you want to call them, was absurd in their total amount. It should also be noted that the quality level plus the certification of whatever body determines that quality is also open to discussion concerning its voracity. We will probably never have a common approved method for continuing education for our profession and the final judgment of who is educated “enough” will be in the length of time one survives in the trenches of our profession and the size of their savings account when they hang up their flashlight and ladder.

PS: IMOFWIW Jerry P's analogy (intepretation) of CEUs is spot on.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Scott,

So, any association or person can provide "CEUs", just cannot call them "IACET CEUs".

Right?

Jerry, if I'm not mistaken I think that CEU is owned IACET. I have not delved off into it that much, I was just aware of IACET due to some work with another organization that decided not to go that route due to the cost.

I really don't know.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Jerry, if I'm not mistaken I think that CEU is owned IACET.

Scott,

That's what I looked for on their site and did not see anything which IACET was indicating that it owned the CEU label. They only specified what 'their' CEU was and that to use and give out 'IACET CEUs', you had to be a member of IACET, which, of course, only makes sense.

I’m just glad that in my state (Tennessee) 16 CEU’s are required every year. Prior to licensing most HI took no continuing education and the inspection reports from this person proved why continuing education is important.

Don Merritt

It's late and my grammer is off. The post should have said:

I’m just glad that in my state (Tennessee) 16 CEU’s are required every year. Prior to licensing most HI's took no continuing education and the inspection reports from these inspectors proved why continuing education is important.

Don Merritt

Charlie,

I opened my first inspection company in Niwot, CO in 2002 and joined NAHI. I was also was a founding member of the Rocky Mountain NAHI chapter and I would be happy to put you in touch with those folks who can certainly answer your questions as I am now in Washington State.

If your interested Email me directly @ rick@paccrestinspections.com

//Rick

Originally Posted by John Arnold

James - Welcome to the board!
Certification/licensure differs by state, and sometimes, city. For instance, in PA there is a Home Inspection Law that we must comply with, but no state licensing. There is a license required in the city of Philadelphia, though. The state law requires us to be full members of a national organization, such as NAHI or ASHI, and to purchase E&O and liability in$urance.

Post is Inaccurate as NACHI also Qualifies within the State of Pennsylvania (Contrary to what Many Post and Would Like You to Believe).

Many NACHI Member's Qualifications far exceed those of Members of ASHI and NAHI in PA.

Looking Solely for an ASHI Logo would be Selling Yourself Short on an Inspection.

AND MANY DON'T JOE--THEY ARE ALL GOOD ORGANIZATIONS AND BELONGING TO ONE IS BEST----THEY OFFER THEIR MEMBERSHIP ALOT

RICK HOPE ALL IS WELL IN WASHINGTON---i am a member of the rmnahi chapter and have just been elected the educational chair----there will be lots of education in the coming year

One slip of the tongue calling CE Hours CEU's and we're off to the races with talk of Academia and professional certifications.

Based on most standards of practice we are not involved in rocket science. We observe and report. Some organizations require that CE courses, etc; be approved. One wonders what criteria is used for approval that is not more politcally based than anything else.

Back to the number of CE hours. It sure is important to get as much time in meetings and courses on topics from the basics to things in related field. The more we learn about what we are observing during the course of an inspection the better we can report on the condition.The more CE hours the better the ability to CYA. It could save you thousands of $.

Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty

Post is Inaccurate as NACHI also Qualifies within the State of Pennsylvania (Contrary to what Many Post and Would Like You to Believe).

Many NACHI Member's Qualifications far exceed those of Members of ASHI and NAHI in PA.

Looking Solely for an ASHI Logo would be Selling Yourself Short on an Inspection.

There was nothing in John Arnolds post that was inaccurate....
I quote:
__________________________________________________ _____
"James - Welcome to the board!
Certification/licensure differs by state, and sometimes, city. For instance, in PA there is a Home Inspection Law that we must comply with, but no state licensing. There is a license required in the city of Philadelphia, though. The state law requires us to be full members of a national organization, such as NAHI or ASHI, and to purchase E&O and liability in$urance."
__________________________________________________ _____
Nowhere in that statement did he say, "ONLY"... NAHI or ASHI...

It's just comical how folks read into statements what they only want to see... that would be someone else talking bad about their girlfriends...

Yikes, even if she is ugly!!

Rich

Originally Posted by John Arnold

The state law requires us to be full members of a national organization, such as NAHI or ASHI, ...

Joe,

You need to get off your high horse there and read what he wrote.

Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty

Post is Inaccurate as NACHI also Qualifies within the State of Pennsylvania

John's post *was not* "Inaccurate".

John said "such as", which does not limit the options to those stated. Heck, there may even be some other national HI associations which qualify if push came to shove - all based on the wording of the requirements ... but that is taking a side track - John was not "inaccurate", he may have been not "all inclusive", but get off the "inaccurate" stuff.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

John's post *was not* "Inaccurate".

It is easy to make that mistake since there have been a good number of communications with potential clients and Realtors by certain inspectors and inspector organizations stating categorically that NACHI members are not qualified (under PA law) to do inspections in PA. Even when one organization was told by a judge that they have no authority to make that determination, they continued with those statements.

Since NACHI was left out in the "such as" list, and the post came from a PA inspector, it is not unreasonable to consider the post walking on the legal side of a very thin line. At the very least it could easily be seen as a slight, since NACHI may be the only other organization that currently qualifies. One can easily recognize someone's intentions when leaving out the third organization. Me thinks it won't be long before the PA inspection industry gets turned on its ear.

Either way, I'm not quite sure what any of this has to do with CE or Utah.

.

Originally Posted by David Nice

It is easy to make that mistake ...

Since NACHI was left out in the "such as" list, and the post came from a PA inspector, it is not unreasonable to consider the post walking on the legal side of a very thin line.

I think it is "unreasonable" to consider that. I would have thought it was more reasonable to think 'these are the two I know about', or even, 'these are the two I belong to'.

Of course, though, when the chance comes up for a fight between associations, someone will be there to pounce on that chance.

I think all three associations should 'just bury the hatchet', and I am sure that those associations agree with me ... they only disagree on *where* to 'bury the hatchet' and into who's association it should be 'buried'.