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  1. #1
    David Billings's Avatar
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    Default newbe

    Hello everyone. Interesting site and I look forward to chiming in.

    If I may get in on this mold topic I would like to say as I have read thru many of your posts I appreciate the comments and dialog. Fascinating the different views as it relates to the subject. This ironically is why there is so much panic in the air. No one has a specific answer and everyone has an opinion. Myself included I find it hard to determine what to say and when to say and my problem is I am not very politically correct which at times creates issues on its own.
    At any rate if I can respond to the use of the word mold and my specific concern. Let me first say that I am not a HI however I am a licensed contractor, CMI and CMRC. These titles and $.25 won't get you a cup of coffee.
    I am called often by Realtors that are about to loose a sale because the HI has scared the buyer to death because of their use of the word mold. Most of the time when I review the concern it is not mold at all, it is only black staining. The second concern is when the word mold is used when there is only staining or rot present on a wall covering. Just today I was called out by a Realtor that had a buyer for the home however the inspector noted in the report that mold was present in a corner of the basement. There was no mold again only staining. The potential buyer lost a great home and the Realtor lost a closing and the home owners lost a sale. If it's not there use another word. Thanks for letting my chyme in, sorry for the length.

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    Default Re: newbie

    Quote Originally Posted by David Billings View Post
    No one has a specific answer and everyone has an opinion.
    How true.

    I am not a HI however I am a licensed contractor, CMI and CMRC.
    Please define what a CMI and CMRC is and what they represent, and who they are given by.

    These titles and $.25 won't get you a cup of coffee.
    Which is what I figured, but would like to know anyway.

    Most of the time when I review the concern it is not mold at all,
    How do you know that? What method do you use in determining that?

    The second concern is when the word mold is used when there is only
    How do you know that? What method do you use in determining that?

    There was no mold again only
    How do you know that? What method do you use in determining that?

    If it's not there
    How do you know that? What method do you use in determining that?

    I know the above sound repetitious, and that is because it is.

    Who, what, where, and how ... as in: who are you, what do you do, where did you learn what you know, and how do you arrive at those conclusions?

    Thank you.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  3. #3
    David Billings's Avatar
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    Default Re: newbe

    CMI-Certified Mold Inspector, CMRC-Certified Mold Remediation Contractor. Have been in the business since the early 90's and have viewed 1000's of homes and worked with state officials and attorneys in subject cases.
    To answer all of the "what, when and how. Testing for mold is very simple and relatively quick and in 95% of the cases I'm called in on a test is required. However let me recant a portion of my comments regarding todays inspection. With out proper testing I am not 100% sure that there was not mold in the corner of the basement. What I was trying to say it that the HI did not know either and should not have used the word mold.


  4. #4
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: newbe

    I never use the mold word. I do not inspect for mold. I am not a CMI. I agree to a slight point about anyone mentioning mold if they have not tested for it. very home has mold of some sort. Swipe a aluminum window frame. The edge of a tub enclosure and so on. Most of what people call mold is the basic clean it up with Clorox clean up. If some one asks me about mold I do not look at some black spot and say Yes its mold. I tell them that if they have a concern they should hire a mold inspector.

    Sounds like you do a lot of work for Realtors, literally. I hope you let them know that you do not work for them. I am as polite as possible but tell every Realtor that may refer me that I do not work for them.

    If you were a home inspector you would understand that statement.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: newbe

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    I never use the mold word. I do not inspect for mold. I am not a CMI. I agree to a slight point about anyone mentioning mold if they have not tested for it. very home has mold of some sort. Swipe a aluminum window frame. The edge of a tub enclosure and so on. Most of what people call mold is the basic clean it up with Clorox clean up. If some one asks me about mold I do not look at some black spot and say Yes its mold. I tell them that if they have a concern they should hire a mold inspector.

    Sounds like you do a lot of work for Realtors, literally. I hope you let them know that you do not work for them. I am as polite as possible but tell every Realtor that may refer me that I do not work for them.

    If you were a home inspector you would understand that statement.
    I agree with you.
    We work for the problem solving not the individual and we take the fear out of the equation if we can.


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    Default Re: newbe

    Quote Originally Posted by David Billings View Post
    .
    take the fear out of the equation if we can
    .
    .
    Take the Litigation out of the Equation if We Can.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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  7. #7
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    Default Legal

    It would be nice to live in that perfect world however litigation is some peoples middle name.


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    Default Re: Legal

    Quote Originally Posted by David Billings View Post
    -- however litigation is some peoples middle name.
    .
    Then It Still Appears to be Mold ( Testing Required to Identify. )

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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    Default Re: newbie

    Back to my questions:

    "Please define what a CMI and CMRC is and what they represent,"

    Quote Originally Posted by David Billings View Post
    CMI-Certified Mold Inspector, CMRC-Certified Mold Remediation Contractor.
    Thank you.

    Now for the rest of that question: "and who they are given by."??

    With out proper testing
    I repeat "How do you know that? What method do you use in determining that?"

    I will re-state it differently, though: Define "proper testing", according to what protocols and standards.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Legal

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    Then It Still Appears to be Mold ( Testing Required to Identify. )
    No. "It appears to be staining". Again as stated earlier unless you know that it is mold then don't state that it is mold. There is really no reason to do so unless a person is trying to continue the fear factor. Trust me I'm in the mold business and love every opportunity that I can get to take care of a mold problem. But what is happening and will continue to get worse is scaring people into or out of something that has a solution.


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    Default Re: newbe

    Quote Originally Posted by David Billings View Post

    Most of the time when I review the concern it is not mold at all, it is only black staining. There was no mold again only staining.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by David Billings View Post
    No. "It appears to be staining".

    Again as stated earlier unless you know that it is mold then don't state that it is mold.

    Trust me I'm in the mold business
    David,

    Please Educate us about The Mold Business.

    How do you visually Identify the Stained Area as a non issue?
    Is the area under the window just a stain ?
    Which photo is Stachybotrys the left or the right ?

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: newbe

    Not real sure what point you're trying to make. As I have said you need to test an area to properly determine the type of mold or if mold exists. I never said a stain is a non issue. What I said is unless you know that there is mold don't say there is mold. Again it seems as if you are trying to make a point that if you see moisture you can justifies that mold is present which is not true.
    As for the mold business education we obviously don't have the time since I can't even get across the point that the fear that consumers have about mold come from the misuse of the word.


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    Default Re: newbie

    Quote Originally Posted by David Billings View Post
    As for the mold business education
    Finally, some response with you stating something about education ... just not yours.

    My question for you are still unanswered.

    What are your "qualifications"? Training, hours/months/years of education before becoming "certified", are you an industrial hygienist or microbiologist?

    You kept referring to 'the misuse of the word mold', I get the impression that you are good at misusing the word mold too. Trying everything you can to ... as you keep repeating ... avoid the fear factor.

    If you would be so kind, what are your "qualifications" for stating that there is no mold, that the mold is not a problem, that most often the word is misused?????

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: newbe

    Quote Originally Posted by David Billings View Post
    Not real sure what point you're trying to make. As I have said you need to test an area to properly determine the type of mold or if mold exists. I never said a stain is a non issue. What I said is unless you know that there is mold don't say there is mold. Again it seems as if you are trying to make a point that if you see moisture you can justifies that mold is present which is not true.
    As for the mold business education we obviously don't have the time since I can't even get across the point that the fear that consumers have about mold come from the misuse of the word.
    .
    David,

    Point is Toxic Mold It

    Unless there is Mold Don't Say There is Mold?

    Unless you can demonstrate a proven method to achieve that statement you should not make it.

    Several Questions have been asked which you did not (can't ?) respond to.

    If you calm some Agents Client into a false sense of Safety and it affects a young Child
    for a "commission" it could be a Criminal matter.

    You seem to be well meaning but if anyone abet miss informed. Please don't take all the Saturday call In's at face value. Some might have an agenda and need access to promote it.

    http:Home 101 Show with David Billings - Product sales and services, download audio, streaming feeds, home repair instructions with video

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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    Default Re: newbe

    Quote Originally Posted by David Billings View Post
    --Just today I was called out by a Realtor that had a buyer for the home however the inspector noted in the report that mold was present in a corner of the basement.

    There was no mold again only staining.

    Sure hope you didn't tell the client that.
    The potential buyer lost a great home and the Realtor lost a closing and the home owners lost a sale. If it's not there use another word. .
    Quote Originally Posted by David Billings View Post
    . Testing for mold is very simple and relatively quick and in 95% of the cases I'm called in on a test is required.

    However let me recant a portion of my comments regarding todays inspection. With out proper testing I am not 100% sure that there was not mold in the corner of the basement. Better be Sure before using The S Word.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Billings View Post
    --No. "It appears to be staining".
    What causes staining ?
    Trust me I'm in the mold business.
    Red is mine.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: newbe

    --Just today I was called out by a Realtor that had a buyer for the home however the inspector noted in the report that mold was present in a corner of the basement.

    There was no mold again only staining.

    Sure hope you didn't tell the client that.
    The potential buyer lost a great home and the Realtor lost a closing and the home owners lost a sale. If it's not there use another word.
    See next answer

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by David Billings
    . Testing for mold is very simple and relatively quick and in 95% of the cases I'm called in on a test is required.

    However let me recant a portion of my comments regarding todays inspection. With out proper testing I am not 100% sure that there was not mold in the corner of the basement. Better be Sure before using The S Word.--S word???
    No. "It appears to be staining".
    What causes staining ? Are you implying that moisture staining is mold? Surely not.
    Trust me I'm in the mold business.


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    Default Re: newbe

    Quote Originally Posted by David Billings View Post
    --Just today I was called out by a Realtor that had a buyer for the home however the inspector noted in the report that mold was present in a corner of the basement.

    There was no mold again only staining.

    Sure hope you didn't tell the client that.
    The potential buyer lost a great home and the Realtor lost a closing and the home owners lost a sale. If it's not there use another word.
    See next answer

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by David Billings
    . Testing for mold is very simple and relatively quick and in 95% of the cases I'm called in on a test is required.

    However let me recant a portion of my comments regarding todays inspection. With out proper testing I am not 100% sure that there was not mold in the corner of the basement. Better be Sure before using The S Word.--S word???
    No. "It appears to be staining".
    What causes staining ? Are you implying that moisture staining is mold? Surely not.
    Trust me I'm in the mold business.

    Staining.

    Nope. Water stains do not have a growth appearance.


    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: newbe

    Jerry and Billy, it has become very obvious that you are more interested in being demeaning and allowing ego to get in the way of fixing a problem. I have given my credentials and experience and felt no need in advertising my radio show. By the way thanks for the plug. I have no ego here nor do I mean to overshadow you on what is obvious to be your blog and where you advertise. Therefore I will humbly bow out knowing that I tried but failed in making a simple point that only Ted picked up on.
    I will end with this... You see damaged wood during your home inspection. I guess this means the house has termites. Yeah, I will put that in my report with out verifying and if it causes a person to miss out on their dream home or costs the seller a sale, o thats ok cause I have done my job. I am a HI as I pound my chest.
    It is good to see that there are HI like Ted that are concerned with how he presents them self.


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    Default Re: newbe

    David,

    If you want to make a Statement please be prepared to defend your comments.

    No Ego Just the facts.

    Life, Limb then Property.

    Don't say you went out and did an Inspection. ( Looking at an Area in a basement & not knowing for sure what it is not an Inspection.)

    Personally Mold, Termites & other things are expressly excluded from my Home Inspection.

    Point is don't Scream Fire, But Don't Poo Poo as well.

    Stick around , Good Site to learn, But a thick Skin is Required.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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    Default Re: newbie

    Quote Originally Posted by David Billings View Post
    Jerry and Billy, it has become very obvious that you are more interested in being demeaning and allowing ego to get in the way of fixing a problem.
    Incorrect. We are interested in fixing the problem.

    *IF* there is a problem with moisture intrusion, *FIX IT*.

    *IF* there is mold present, clean it up. Don't just say 'it's not mold', not unless you are qualified to do so, which gets us to ...

    I have given my credentials and experience .
    Great!

    Then list them.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: newbe

    David,

    I think they are being a little hard on you! I think what you were trying to say is if a home inspector sees something that may be mold (but he cannot tell because he has not tested it) he should say something like "recommend CMI be consulted to test this area". I do not use the word mold because I am not certified as a mold inspector as I am not certified as a termite inspector.


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    Default Re: newbie

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Spermo View Post
    David,

    I think they are being a little hard on you! .
    Bob,

    Not being hard on him at all.

    He came here telling us what not to do and what to do, stating that something was not mold.

    Okay, then what are his qualifications and experience to know that?

    That is a fair, and simple, question to ask and have answered.

    Besides, he has stated he has qualifications and experience. All he has to do is list them.

    Want to know mine? Just ask.

    Tell you what, I'll save you from having to ask: simply click on my website link in my signature, they are there for anyone to see.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: newbe

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Spermo View Post
    .
    I am not certified as a mold inspector
    .
    Get;um Here Bob,
    .
    http:Easy do-it-yourself mold products & services at Mold Mart.

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    Default Re: newbe

    My, my, such fancy tap-dancing by the mold guy. Why is it folks poke their noses in here, offer advice, opinions and critiques, but are hesitant in revealing their so-called credibility? During the course of my experience in our legal system (I’m no lawyer) I’ve found there’s certainly no shortage of “mold experts” offering their expertise for coin of the realm. Most make about as much sense as the ridiculous practice (rip-off) by so many PCO’s who invariably recommend tenting.

    There’s no argument there is a number of qualified mold experts, but they comprise only a very small percentage of the many who advertise themselves as such. The world doesn’t need anymore experts, but it sure could use a lot more common sense. Who said it only took one man to build an arc, but a large collection of experts to build the Titanic?

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

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    Default Re: newbe

    MOLD- Any of various fungi that often cause disintegration of organic matter.

    So then what should we call it. I don't call it killer mold. Just mold and I explain stop the moisture,clean it up and you stop the mold. Can't help the media blew the word MOLD out of proportion but why should we stop saying it.
    I may not be able to identify which type it is but I think I am smart enough to say it's MOLD.

    People find mold on there bread, do they stop buying it..............or should we call it something else.

    I think David was trying to say be careful how you explain mold when you see it. Educate your client. I know I am not going to say I saw black substance in a corner instead of mold. I will say that there is a substance that appears to be mold in the corner of the basement. Correct the water issues mentioned in the report and clean the area blah blah blah and the mold goes away. I do not know if this substance is a health risk and you may want to consider having it tested for piece of mind.

    Mike Schulz License 393
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    Default Re: newbe

    Quote Originally Posted by David Billings View Post
    No. "It appears to be staining". Again as stated earlier unless you know that it is mold then don't state that it is mold. There is really no reason to do so unless a person is trying to continue the fear factor. .
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Schulz View Post
    MOLD- Any of various fungi that often cause disintegration of organic matter.

    So then what should we call it. I don't call it killer mold. Just mold and I explain stop the moisture,clean it up and you stop the mold. Can't help the media blew the word MOLD out of proportion but why should we stop saying it.
    I may not be able to identify which type it is but I think I am smart enough to say it's MOLD.

    I think David was trying to say be careful how you explain mold when you see it. Educate your client. I know I am not going to say I saw black substance in a corner instead of mold. I will say that there is a substance that appears to be mold in the corner of the basement. .
    Mike,

    David said No do not to call it mold, But Staining, No references to try and educate you client that mold is a part of everyday life found on most everything we touch. Just No Don't do it. Call it Staining to do other wise was just to try and continue The Fear Factor.

    The sited reasoning behind The Stain verses Mold was " Realtor lost a closing, buyer lost a great home, seller lost a sell.
    " I am often called by Realtor s about to lose a sale because the HI has scared the buyer to death because of their use of the word mold."

    We have all heard the HI scared My Client to death song & dance from a Realtor.
    If not from this issue surely another.

    It appears (Realtor Word ) has gotten out if your about to lose a sale he'll come a running with The Staining Song & Dance. Just another dupe on the list, Electrical, Plumbing, Roofing ect. But instead of splattering on a half of pail of roofing cement out of sight. This Slight of Hand is done Face to Face.
    .
    * Tis The Season don't want to leave out The freon Jockeys.

    Last edited by Billy Stephens; 07-16-2008 at 08:13 PM. Reason: added : Freon Jockeys
    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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    Default Re: newbe

    I've been reading this thread with some interest. David was quick to tell us he is a "certified" mold guy, and "is in the mold business", yet hasn't given us his credentials, such as who and where did the certification come from? I have a feeling it is just not all that impressive of a credential - otherwise he would have listed it proudly.

    Just because someone is in the "business" does not mean they know anything about the business, or are qualified to be in it. That is proven day in and day out by some of the repair people that do the work we report on.

    Even having a radio show means very little about qualifications and abilities.

    Maybe we should call it an undetermined black fuzzy stain in the corner, that may be or maybe not a problem, and "appears" (oh I hate that word) to not be anything to kill the sale over.

    Wait, that may be a little too confrontational, maybe we should say something like, "viewed a small dark spot that is probably not a problem in the corner".

    NO, still a little strong...how about "couldn't view the entire basement, so any staining that may or may not be there when you do your walk through wasn't there when we did the inspection - AND it "appears" to not be a problem, and you should buy this house anyway".


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    Default Re: newbe

    I don't 'know' if it's mold. Could be, looks like it but I don't know. I NEVER use the 'M' word in my reports and refrain from using it in discussions with clients. 'Potential biological hazard" seen at X location, looks like X, could be bad for people blah, blah. Recommend having sample tested by a lab blah blah.
    I've seen lots of guys call things mold. Is it? Probably. Calling it that when you aren't licensed in that field is a bad idea. My understanding is IL requires mold inspectors to be licensed. Besides that it freaks people out.

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