Studder Valve Usage - InspectionNews

permalink · #1 (**permalink**) 08-01-2007, 06:40 PM

Hi Everyone,

I am a new HI on the system and have a question on the Studder Valves (spelling could be off) . Found some today in a new home but no vent going out the roof. Dont you need at least one vent to the exterior even if you use these valves?

Thanks for responses in advance.

Steve Vance

Gunnar Alquist · #2 (**permalink**) 08-01-2007, 06:43 PM

Studor Valve.

Yes, to the best of my knowledge, at least one needs to vent to the exterior.

Jerry Peck · #3 (**permalink**) 08-01-2007, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist

Studor Valve.

Yes, to the best of my knowledge, at least one needs to vent to the exterior.

As Gunnar said "exterior", which is different than "out through the roof".

They make special recessed boxes for the vent to mount in in a wall, such as a gable wall. It still vents to "outdoors".

Michael Thomas · #4 (**permalink**) 08-01-2007, 08:33 PM

I know that Chicago was considering prohibiting AAVs:

"(5) Chapter 9 Vents: Section 917 Air Admittance Valves: Air
Admittance Valves are not permitted. (Air Admittance Valves are a
mechanical devise which if they should fail would allow sewer gas to
enter the building).."

http://www.erie.pa.us/pdf/AGENDA%20F...016%202006.pdf

Anyone know if they are currently allowed, or not?

Robert Dalga · #5 (**permalink**) 08-02-2007, 06:04 AM

Air Admittance Valves are permitted here in Kalamazoo, MI (a kitchen island is a good example of where one may be installed and is allowed).

Scott Patterson · #6 (**permalink**) 08-02-2007, 08:01 AM

While we are on the topic of AAV's be sure that you look to see what color it is. If you find White or Tan AAV's they are OK for use in residental construction. If you find a Black one it is really not an AAV. It is a mechanical vent and they are not allowed in residental construction.

When the AAV fails, it fails in the closed position. When the mechanical vent (the Black type) fail they do so in the open position.

The AAV's also have to be accessible. You can't have one that is sealed up in a wall or out of reach. They fail and will need to be replaced down the road.

Scott Faris · #7 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007, 12:29 PM

Scott although the mechanical "cheater vents" are black, Ayrlett makes a black ABS AAV. This works the same as the Studor Vent. We see these devices up here in the North West all the time. Check out Ayrlett Air Valve Company LLC.

Scott Patterson · #8 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Faris

Scott although the mechanical "cheater vents" are black, Ayrlett makes a black ABS AAV. This works the same as the Studor Vent. We see these devices up here in the North West all the time. Check out Ayrlett Air Valve Company LLC.

Thanks! That is just great! It use to be so simple to call them out! Now it is a little more difficult! I don't think I have seen this brand, yet!

Jerry Peck · #9 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007, 03:42 PM

Here's a new one from that site:

"Carefully glue the AAV to the plumbing system using Approved PVC glue on PVC, and ABS glue on ABS Systems. (DO NOT allow excess glue to enter the AAV)"

Those things need to be replaced from time to time and need to be removable.

Scott Faris · #10 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Here's a new one from that site:

"Carefully glue the AAV to the plumbing system using Approved PVC glue on PVC, and ABS glue on ABS Systems. (DO NOT allow excess glue to enter the AAV)"

Those things need to be replaced from time to time and need to be removable.

Jerry, the Ayrlett vents come with or without an adapter. With the adapter they can be removed and replaced. These devices are simple to use and I've never had a call back on them.

Jerry Peck · #11 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Faris

Jerry, the Ayrlett vents come with or without an adapter. With the adapter they can be removed and replaced.

Scott,

BUT ...

What about the installation instructions? Have they be revised and not posted to their website?

"Carefully glue the AAV to the plumbing system using Approved PVC glue on PVC, and ABS glue on ABS Systems. (DO NOT allow excess glue to enter the AAV)"

Gunnar Alquist · #12 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007, 07:57 PM

Uhh, Jerry... Line 3. "When using threaded adapter, carefully glue adapter into AAV. (DO NOT allow excess glue to enter AAV). Place Teflon tape on threads. Firmly hand tighten the threaded adapter to AAV."

I thought installation of "studor" valves had to be up as high as they could go. The image in the website indicates 4" above the trap crown. Interesting.

Jerry Peck · #13 (**permalink**) 08-28-2007, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist

Uhh, Jerry... Line 3. "When using threaded adapter, carefully glue adapter into AAV. (DO NOT allow excess glue to enter AAV). Place Teflon tape on threads. Firmly hand tighten the threaded adapter to AAV."

Gunnar,

Yeah, I saw that, and you saw what I posted, correct?

The part I posted should be removed ... NOT offered as a "choice", because it needs to be removable.

Quote:

I thought installation of "studor" valves had to be up as high as they could go. The image in the website indicates 4" above the trap crown. Interesting.

Nope, just 4" above the weir of the trap, always been that way.

Scott Faris · #14 (**permalink**) 08-28-2007, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Scott,

BUT ...

What about the installation instructions? Have they be revised and not posted to their website?

"Carefully glue the AAV to the plumbing system using Approved PVC glue on PVC, and ABS glue on ABS Systems. (DO NOT allow excess glue to enter the AAV)"

Jerry, as already explained, #3 on the instructions covers the adapter. I never looked at the instructions that closely to be honest. Pretty simple product to use.

As far as the 4" above crown of trap, that is correct by code and ASSE 1051. However these devices work better if they are higher. That way soap suds don't creep up (been there before).

Jerry Peck · #15 (**permalink**) 08-28-2007, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Faris

Jerry, as already explained, #3 on the instructions covers the adapter.

Scott,

And, as I've "already explained" before, #2 states:" Carefully glue the AAV to the plumbing system "

That's a directive, whereas your #3 is a "when", as in "When using threaded adapter, "

It says to do #2, it gives an option to do #3, if you do #2, #3 is not really an option,m is it?

Scott Faris · #16 (**permalink**) 08-28-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Scott,

And, as I've "already explained" before, #2 states:" Carefully glue the AAV to the plumbing system "

That's a directive, whereas your #3 is a "when", as in "When using threaded adapter, "

It says to do #2, it gives an option to do #3, if you do #2, #3 is not really an option,m is it?

First of all I think I have just lost some brain cells trying to understand this. We are professional enough to read the instructions and realize that if using the adapter, then we don't do number 2. However if you check your code, under the IPC I believe it says to install using manufacturers instructions. I would imagine you have many plumbers installing without the adapter; check around.

By the way nice point, if you've already glued on, pretty tough to use that adapter.

Jerry Peck · #17 (**permalink**) 08-28-2007, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Faris

I would imagine you have many plumbers installing without the adapter; check around.

By the way nice point, if you've already glued on, pretty tough to use that adapter.

Precisely my points.

With the Studor Vent valves, they state on the valve to use pipe thread tape only (because plumbers were gluing them on when they threaded the Studor Vents in).

The Oatey AAV valves did not say to use any pipe thread tape, so plumbers did not. Of course, though, that left the valves 'not sealed' when installed. I called Oatey a number of years ago (right after their valves hit the market) and asked them if their valves required pipe thread tape, they said yes, why? When I told them that plumbers were installing their valves with no sealant (the tape), the engineer got pissed - he said something to the effect of if they are not using pipe thread tape, then they should not be calling themselves 'plumbers' because 'plumbers' KNOW that all joints must be sealed. He said he would check into adding that to the instructions - I never did follow through later on to see if tape on the threaded joints is now "required" by Oatey.

Some plumbers are either *stupid* or *cheap* ... or ... BOTH!

Scott Faris · #18 (**permalink**) 08-29-2007, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Precisely my points.

With the Studor Vent valves, they state on the valve to use pipe thread tape only (because plumbers were gluing them on when they threaded the Studor Vents in).

The Oatey AAV valves did not say to use any pipe thread tape, so plumbers did not. Of course, though, that left the valves 'not sealed' when installed. I called Oatey a number of years ago (right after their valves hit the market) and asked them if their valves required pipe thread tape, they said yes, why? When I told them that plumbers were installing their valves with no sealant (the tape), the engineer got pissed - he said something to the effect of if they are not using pipe thread tape, then they should not be calling themselves 'plumbers' because 'plumbers' KNOW that all joints must be sealed. He said he would check into adding that to the instructions - I never did follow through later on to see if tape on the threaded joints is now "required" by Oatey.

Some plumbers are either *stupid* or *cheap* ... or ... BOTH!

Jerry don't get me started on that one. I went to the Studor site and did not see on their instructions to use teflon or anything else. They did say in their instructions to follow the instructions

Oatey says "Use approved pipe joint compound in the threads of the valve".

These differences or lack of instructions could be confusing to some, but the Oatey guy is right in that "real" plumbers should know that all joints must be sealed. We know that there are plenty of plumbers these days that can foul up just about anything though.

Good discussion.

Jerry McCarthy · #19 (**permalink**) 08-29-2007, 11:38 AM

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