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  1. #1
    MaMa Mount's Avatar
    MaMa Mount Guest

    Default Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    This home is rather old and has a water heater located in the dining area of the kitchen. It is real common in these old houses to see them as such.
    The water heater is not located in any type of closet so I am wondering about combustion air issues.
    Can a water heater use combustion air from inside the house?
    Should there be combustion air vents on the floor and ceiling?
    Can a TPR drain line terminate to the crawlspace?

    I understand that the burner chamber could be easily accessed by a child and could lead to injury.

    Any help or additional comments would be appreciated.

    Mama Mount

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaMa Mount View Post
    This home is rather old and has a water heater located in the dining area of the kitchen. It is real common in these old houses to see them as such.
    The water heater is not located in any type of closet so I am wondering about combustion air issues.
    Can a water heater use combustion air from inside the house?
    Should there be combustion air vents on the floor and ceiling?
    Can a TPR drain line terminate to the crawlspace?

    I understand that the burner chamber could be easily accessed by a child and could lead to injury.

    Any help or additional comments would be appreciated.

    Mama Mount
    Yes.
    depends (but not always required).
    No.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Can a water heater use combustion air from inside the house?
    Yes, if the area (space) in question contains adequqte cubic footage of combustion air.
    Should there be combustion air vents on the floor and ceiling?
    No. (see answer above)
    Can a TPR drain line terminate to the crawlspace?
    No.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    Can a water heater use combustion air from inside the house?
    Yes, if the area (space) in question contains adequqte cubic footage of combustion air.
    Should there be combustion air vents on the floor and ceiling?
    No. (see answer above)
    Can a TPR drain line terminate to the crawlspace?
    No.
    .
    Unless of course It Has it's own Privacy Screen.
    .

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    How 'bout the door smacking into it?!


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Across the room, it appears to be a 30 Gal. GE unit.

    What? No drain pan either!

    rick


  7. #7
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    This is one of those matters I always get in trouble on.

    Personally I could care less what the code book says on any of that.

    For personal safety I do not think a water heater should be IN any room of the home. Unless that room has a closet that the unit can be enclosed in. For safety matters, and none really have to be mentioned here, it should be in an enclosed area with proper combustion air and ventilation.

    This of course is my own opinion. Does it fly. Well if I express it well enough to my clients and they install it away from harms and childrens way and doors cannot be bumped into it and the TPR is safely drained to the exterior and there is a drain pan under it and, and, and. After all that they may as well build a closet in the corner.

    Just my opinion and I express it strongly to my clients


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Across the room, it appears to be a 30 Gal. GE unit. What? No drain pan either! rick
    Rick,

    I see a flue pipe. But, then again, maybe youse guys in Texas have flue pipes on your electric water heaters.

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Yeah, whats your point?

    GE makes gas WH's.

    Maybe you boyz in Cali. have seen too much of the other pipe.

    rick

    Last edited by Rick Hurst; 11-17-2008 at 09:58 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    GE brings good things to life.

    That includes Gas Water Heaters too!

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    If there is a kitchen hood exhaust that vents to the outside and they ran it for a long time it could cause a negative pressure in the kitchen and down draft the water heater vent and allow flue gas into the house.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Hagman View Post
    If there is a kitchen hood exhaust that vents to the outside and they ran it for a long time it could cause a negative pressure in the kitchen and down draft the water heater vent and allow flue gas into the house.

    Not in the old houses I've seen. Now maybe the pilot light blowing out from a draft!


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    On a side issue, I like those 4 locks on that door. Must be a real safe neighborhood?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  14. #14
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    On a side issue, I like those 4 locks on that door. Must be a real safe neighborhood?
    Any rental in Texas has to have 2 dead bolts. One cannot be accessed from the outside for security. It is nick named the X dead bolt. I guess that would be for past tannants and x husbands/wifes.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    Not in the old houses I've seen. Now maybe the pilot light blowing out from a draft!
    If the pilot light is blowing out from the draft , then that means the flu gas is also comining back down when the burner is on. I have seen it before, I agree, it doesn't happen too often in an old house that is open and not very tight. All I was saying is that is could be a possibility. I'm not there to see the situation. The only way to know for sure is to turn on the exhaust fan, water heater and test the draft and test for CO.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Ted, do you have any more specifics on that?
    I have seen a similar requirement when doing section 8 QC inspections, but never on any rentals that were not HUD.
    They also accepted the big round plates that blocked the door closed so long as there was no possible access from the outside.
    I am wondering what state agency would be requiring anything on rental?

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  17. #17
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Ted, do you have any more specifics on that?
    I have seen a similar requirement when doing section 8 QC inspections, but never on any rentals that were not HUD.
    They also accepted the big round plates that blocked the door closed so long as there was no possible access from the outside.
    I am wondering what state agency would be requiring anything on rental?
    I will dig it up. I have it some where. I'll get back to you.

    Last edited by Ted Menelly; 11-18-2008 at 04:55 PM.

  18. #18
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    This is not what I was looking for but it should do.


    Texas Property Code

    Disclaimer
    Below is our interpretation of the basics of the Texas Property Code with regard to landlord responsibilities. While our locksmiths ensure property code compliance on a daily basis, we are not lawyers. Since this is the case, you may want to review the full text of Chapter 92 - Residential Tenancies - Texas Property Code.

    Landlords in Texas are required to follow specific Property Code requirements with regard to "Security Devices" in rental properties. Did you know that your failure to follow the lock laws gives your tenant a free and legal walk-away cancellation of the lease agreement? It also places you in a position of greater liability in case of a break in. Why risk it?

    Here are the basics of what you must know and abide by. Please contact us if you have any questions.
    • Upon change of tenants, you have within 7 days of your new tenant moving in to rekey the locks. This expense cannot be passed on to the tenant, even if the tenant agrees. It is illegal to charge tenants for re-keying locks in Texas.
    • All exterior doors in your rental property must have a keyless deadbolt installed. The garage leading from the inside of your home into the garage is considered an exterior door.
    • All exterior doors in your rental property must have a door viewer (peep hole) installed.
    • All sliding patio doors must have a pin lock AND either a locking handle or a charlie bar installed.
    • Exit doors, such as an upstairs passage door leading to a balcony, are not required to have keyed deadbolts or locking doorknobs, but must have a keyless deadbolt installed.
    Other Tips:
    Proper Handling of Keys
    Property Managers and Landlords should NEVER label keys with the property address. Always use a code or cryptic initials in case the keys are lost or stolen.

    Double Cylinder Deadbolts
    Double Cylinder Deadbolts, which require a key to open the deadbolt from the inside and exit, can create a fire trap. They are not illegal, but it would be prudent for you to consider the possible liability of a tenant or children trapped inside your dwelling during a fire.

    Contact us if you have any questions at all about your property or the laws that must be followed when renting residential real estate.
    Rekey.com
    877-211-5397 (KEYS)
    Home | Services | Texas Lock Laws | Contact Us



  19. #19
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    All exterior doors in your rental property must have a keyless deadbolt installed.

    Ted,

    That is not requiring *two* locks on each door, it is only requiring *one* "keyless deadbolt" on each door.

    The door latch is not required (at least not there) to be a "keyed" entrance type. It could only be a "latching" type.

    The deadbolt would be providing the security.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Thanks Ted,
    Here are some of the pertinent sections from the actual code in case anyone wants to see just the sections on security.

    Jerry, note sections 2 and 5

    Texas Property Code

    Sec.A92.153.AASECURITY DEVICES REQUIRED WITHOUT NECESSITY OF
    TENANT REQUEST.A (a)AAExcept as provided by Subsections (b), (e),
    (f), (g), and (h) and without necessity of request by the tenant, a
    dwelling must be equipped with:
    (1)AAa window latch on each exterior window of the
    dwelling;
    (2)AAa doorknob lock or keyed dead bolt on each exterior
    door;
    (3)AAa sliding door pin lock on each exterior sliding
    glass door of the dwelling;
    (4)AAa sliding door handle latch or a sliding door
    security bar on each exterior sliding glass door of the dwelling;
    and
    (5)AAa keyless bolting device and a door viewer on each
    exterior door of the dwelling.
    (b)AAIf the dwelling has French doors, one door of each pair
    of French doors must meet the requirements of Subsection (a) and the
    other door must have:
    (1)AAa keyed dead bolt or keyless bolting device
    capable of insertion into the doorjamb above the door and a keyless
    bolting device capable of insertion into the floor or threshold,
    each with a bolt having a throw of one inch or more; or
    (2)AAa bolt installed inside the door and operated from
    the edge of the door, capable of insertion into the doorjamb above
    the door, and another bolt installed inside the door and operated
    from the edge of the door capable of insertion into the floor orSec.A92.154.AAHEIGHT, STRIKE PLATE, AND THROW
    REQUIREMENTS--KEYED DEAD BOLT OR KEYLESS BOLTING DEVICE.A (a)AAA
    keyed dead bolt or a keyless bolting device required by this
    subchapter must be installed at a height:
    (1)AAnot lower than 36 inches from the floor; and
    (2)AAnot higher than:
    (A)AA54 inches from the floor, if installed before
    September 1, 1993; or
    (B)AA48 inches from the floor, if installed on or
    after September 1, 1993.
    (b)AAA keyed dead bolt or a keyless bolting device described
    in Section 92.151(6)(A) or (B) in a dwelling must:
    (1)AAhave a strike plate screwed into the portion of the
    doorjamb surface that faces the edge of the door when the door is
    closed; or
    (2)AAbe installed in a door with a metal doorjamb that
    serves as the strike plate.
    (c)AAA keyed dead bolt or keyless dead bolt, as described by
    Section 92.151(6)(A), installed in a dwelling on or after September
    1, 1993, must have a bolt with a throw of not less than one inch.
    (d)AAThe requirements of this section do not apply to a keyed
    dead bolt or a keyless bolting device in one door of a pair of French
    doors that is installed in accordance with the requirements of
    Section 92.153(b)(1) or (2).
    Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 357, Sec. 3, eff. Sept. 1,
    1993.
    Sec.A92.155.AAHEIGHT REQUIREMENTS--SLIDING DOOR SECURITY
    DEVICES.A A sliding door pin lock or sliding door security bar
    required by this subchapter must be installed at a height not higher
    than:
    (1)AA54 inches from the floor, if installed before
    September 1, 1993; or
    (2)AA48 inches from the floor, if installed on or after
    September 1, 1993.
    Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 357, Sec. 3, eff. Sept. 1,
    1993.

    threshold, each bolt having a throw of three-fourths inch or more.



    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Jerry, note sections 2 and 5

    Texas Property Code

    Sec.A92.153.AASECURITY DEVICES REQUIRED WITHOUT NECESSITY OF
    TENANT REQUEST.A (a)AAExcept as provided by Subsections (b), (e), (f), (g), and (h) and without necessity of request by the tenant, a dwelling must be equipped with:
    (2)AAa doorknob lock or keyed dead bolt on each exterior
    door;
    (5)AAa keyless bolting device and a door viewer on each
    exterior door of the dwelling.
    Jim,

    Neither requires a keyed entry lockset AND a deadbolt. The deadbolt is suitable by itself.

    (2) door knob lock OR keyed dead bolt
    (5) a keyless bolting device

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    I would recommend a closet be built around it. I would also recommend that minimum clearances be maintained and that vents in ceiling and floor be provided for combustion air. I might also recommend moving it to a better location if there is one.


  23. #23
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Yeah, whats your point? GE makes gas WH's. Maybe you boyz in Cali. have seen too much of the other pipe. rick
    Rick,

    My point is that I am an idiot and am unable to read. Somehow, I thought you wrote that you saw an electric water heater.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Gunnar,

    Don't feel bad. I got to thinking maybe only Texas and Oklahoma must be receiving gas WH's from GE.

    I honestly thought for a moment that that you really had never seen a gas WH from GE.

    But I know better. Maybe.

    rick


  25. #25
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    This is not what I was looking for but it should do.


    Texas Property Code


    Disclaimer
    Below is our interpretation of the basics of the Texas Property Code with regard to landlord responsibilities. While our locksmiths ensure property code compliance on a daily basis, we are not lawyers. Since this is the case, you may want to review the full text of Chapter 92 - Residential Tenancies - Texas Property Code.

    Landlords in Texas are required to follow specific Property Code requirements with regard to "Security Devices" in rental properties. Did you know that your failure to follow the lock laws gives your tenant a free and legal walk-away cancellation of the lease agreement? It also places you in a position of greater liability in case of a break in. Why risk it?

    Here are the basics of what you must know and abide by. Please contact us if you have any questions.

    • Upon change of tenants, you have within 7 days of your new tenant moving in to rekey the locks. This expense cannot be passed on to the tenant, even if the tenant agrees. It is illegal to charge tenants for re-keying locks in Texas.

    All exterior doors in your rental property must have a keyless deadbolt installed. The garage leading from the inside of your home into the garage is considered an exterior door.
    All exterior doors in your rental property must have a door viewer (peep hole) installed.
    All sliding patio doors must have a pin lock AND either a locking handle or a charlie bar installed.
    Exit doors, such as an upstairs passage door leading to a balcony, are not required to have keyed deadbolts or locking doorknobs, but must have a keyless deadbolt installed.


    Other Tips:
    Proper Handling of Keys
    Property Managers and Landlords should NEVER label keys with the property address. Always use a code or cryptic initials in case the keys are lost or stolen.
    Double Cylinder Deadbolts
    Double Cylinder Deadbolts, which require a key to open the deadbolt from the inside and exit, can create a fire trap. They are not illegal, but it would be prudent for you to consider the possible liability of a tenant or children trapped inside your dwelling during a fire.
    Contact us if you have any questions at all about your property or the laws that must be followed when renting residential real estate.

    Rekey.com
    877-211-5397 (KEYS)
    Home | Services | Texas Lock Laws | Contact Us



    I probably mis spoke. I guess I am concidering that all homes have dead bolts and can be unlocked from the outside to get in. For security reasons once yuou are inside

    "All exterior doors in your rental property must have a keyless deadbolt installed. The garage leading from the inside of your home into the garage is considered an exterior door."


  26. #26
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Didnít know Texans had to have doors locks? Hmmm... I thought everybody packed?

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Jerry,

    We don't here in Texas. We leave the door wide open with a 12 gauge leaning against the back of the door frame for any rowdy people or some wild game that might come by.

    Mama Mount is in Oklahoma. Things are a bit different north of the river.

    rick


  28. #28
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    As far as the 3 locks...the door probably had a regular door knob, a dead bolt. Then the law was passed and apartment owners had a time frame in which to install the locks on the interior of the door. The renter probably installed the chain too. That's probably what happened.


  29. #29
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Jim,

    Neither requires a keyed entry lockset AND a deadbolt. The deadbolt is suitable by itself.

    (2) door knob lock OR keyed dead bolt
    (5) a keyless bolting device
    Point is a dead bolt or keyed lockset is not enough, there must be a keyless deadbolt or equivalent present in addition to whatever else is present.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  30. #30
    MaMa Mount's Avatar
    MaMa Mount Guest

    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    YOU GUYS ARE SOMETHING ELSE. HOW DO YOU GO FROM A SIMPLE QUESTION OF MINE TO ALL OF THIS TALK ABOUT DOORS? THIS HOME WAS NOT A RENTAL EITHER. IT HAD LOCKS ON THERE BECAUSE OF THE CRAPPY NEIGHBORHOOD OR HOOD IT WAS IN.

    MAMA MOUNT


  31. #31
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    You take every situation and learn from it. I think these types of conversations only help others, myself included, to learn as much as possible about our "not so easy" jobs!


  32. #32
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    there must be a keyless deadbolt
    Jim,

    That's not what it says.

    To explain, I will ask a question: What is a ... (see underlined part of phrase)

    (5)AAa keyless bolting device and a door viewer on each
    exterior door of the dwelling.


    I can tell you what it is not, it is not a "keyless deadbolt" *only*. That "keyless deadbolt" term came from that REKEY.com page, not the actual code you posted.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?


    SUBCHAPTER D. SECURITY DEVICES
    Sec.
    A92.151.AADEFINITIONS.A In this subchapter:
    (1)
    AA"Doorknob lock" means a lock in a doorknob, with
    the lock operated from the exterior by a key, card, or combination
    and from the interior without a key, card, or combination.
    (2)
    AA"Door viewer" means a permanently installed device
    in an exterior door that allows a person inside the dwelling to view
    a person outside the door. The device must be:
    (A)
    AAa clear glass pane or one-way mirror; or
    (B)
    AAa peephole having a barrel with a one-way
    lens of glass or other substance providing an angle view of not less
    than 160 degrees.
    (3)
    AA"Exterior door" means a door providing access from
    a dwelling interior to the exterior. The term includes a door
    between a living area and a garage but does not include a sliding
    glass door or a screen door.
    (4)
    AA"French doors" means a set of two exterior doors in
    which each door is hinged and abuts the other door when closed. The
    term includes double-hinged patio doors.
    (5)
    AA"Keyed dead bolt" means:
    (A)
    AAa door lock not in the doorknob that:
    (i)
    AAlocks with a bolt into the doorjamb;
    and
    (ii)
    AAis operated from the exterior by a key,
    card, or combination and from the interior by a knob or lever
    without a key, card, or combination; or
    (B)
    AAa doorknob lock that contains a bolt with at
    least a one-inch throw.
    (6)
    AA"Keyless bolting device" means a door lock not in
    the doorknob that locks:
    (A)
    AAwith a bolt into a strike plate screwed into
    the portion of the doorjamb surface that faces the edge of the door
    when the door is closed or into a metal doorjamb that serves as the
    strike plate, operable only by knob or lever from the door
    ís
    interior and not in any manner from the door
    ís exterior, and that is
    commonly known as a keyless dead bolt;
    (B)
    AAby a drop bolt system operated by placing a
    central metal plate over a metal doorjamb restraint that protrudes
    from the doorjamb and that is affixed to the doorjamb frame by means
    of three case-hardened screws at least three inches in length.
    One-half of the central plate must overlap the interior surface of
    the door and the other half of the central plate must overlap the
    doorjamb when the plate is placed over the doorjamb restraint. The
    drop bolt system must prevent the door from being opened unless the
    central plate is lifted off of the doorjamb restraint by a person
    who is on the interior side of the door.
    The term "keyless bolting device" does not include a
    chain latch, flip latch, surface-mounted slide bolt, mortise door
    bolt, surface-mounted barrel bolt, surface-mounted swing bar door
    guard, spring-loaded nightlatch, foot bolt, or other lock or latch;
    Your point is?



    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  34. #34
    MaMa Mount's Avatar
    MaMa Mount Guest

    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    IS ALL THESE RULES YOU GUYS ARE POSTING ONLY REQUIREMENTS FOR RENTAL PROPERTIES?

    MAMA MOUNT


  35. #35
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Yep, and only in Texas.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  36. #36
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Your point is?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    What is a ...
    "keyless bolting device"?

    Does that mean it is a deadbolt which does NOT take a key? Possibly uses a combination or button locking system?

    Or does that simply mean a surface mount barrel bolt installed on the inside of the door?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  37. #37
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    "key-less bolting device"?

    Does that mean it is a deadbolt which does NOT take a key? Possibly uses a combination or button locking system?

    Or does that simply mean a surface mount barrel bolt installed on the inside of the door?

    Jerry

    A key-less dead bolt. You are reading and analyzing way to much into it. A key-less deadbolt. No key slot at the exterior. Just thumb turn on the inside.


  38. #38
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Jerry

    A key-less dead bolt. You are reading and analyzing way to much into it. A key-less deadbolt. No key slot at the exterior. Just thumb turn on the inside.
    Ted,

    Not reading too much into it, pointing out that you are (you as in the plural, not as in 'you specifically').

    What you suggested is 'one option' in the language of the code. The rekey.com page re-worded what the code says, and the code does not say that at all.

    *I* am strictly reading what the code which was posted says: "key-less bolting device".

    You reading it as "deadbolt with no key on the outside" is not what it says. A surface mount barrel bolt is a "key-less bolting device".

    I went beyond that to show some other examples of what a "key-less bolting device" could be.

    Now, that is all based on what has been posted here. Somewhere there may be a definition of a "key-less bolting device" which eliminates the surface mount barrel bolt - but if so, that has not been posted here and is not available for my viewing and reading pleasure.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    www.AskCodeMan.com

  39. #39
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Boy's, Boy's

    Why not Look at The Texas Definitions

    *see 92.151 (6) A and B.
    .

    Attached Files Attached Files
    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    Boy's, Boy's

    Why not Look at The Texas Definitions

    *see 92.151 (6) A and B.
    .
    Thank you, Billy.

    That is just what I was referring to as not having been posted and what needed to be posted.

    While that "key-less bolting device" 'is not allowed to be' the surface mount barrel bolt I described, it also 'is not required to be' a key-less dead bolt either. As I was saying, that is 'just one option'.

    Read 6(A), 6(B), and 6(C) for all options.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    www.AskCodeMan.com

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Billy, thanks for the clarification (but I could not get it to work) but
    Ted already posted the entire statute link, Jerry is just trying to be difficult for some reason.
    Point is a dead bolt or keyed lockset is not enough, there must be a keyless deadbolt or equivalent present in addition to whatever else is present.
    (6)AA"Keyless bolting device" means a door lock not in
    the doorknob that locks:
    (A)
    AAwith a bolt into a strike plate screwed into
    the portion of the doorjamb surface that faces the edge of the door
    when the door is closed or into a metal doorjamb that serves as the
    strike plate, operable only by knob or lever from the door
    s
    interior and not in any manner from the door
    s exterior, and that is
    commonly known as a keyless dead bolt;
    Jerry, do you really not understand what they are asking and enforcing or are you just trying to be argumentative for the sake of arguing?

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  42. #42
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post

    Read 6(A), 6(B), and 6(C) for all options.
    .
    Did that Before I Posted.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Ted already posted the entire statute link, Jerry is just trying to be difficult for some reason.

    Jerry, do you really not understand what they are asking and enforcing or are you just trying to be argumentative for the sake of arguing?
    Jim,

    Are you just arguing for arguments sake? Did you even bother to READ the definitions?

    CLEARLY (read them for yourself) CLEARLY a "key-less bolting device" is allowed to be more than just a "key-less deadbolt".

    Says so right in the definitions.

    Before criticizing me, YOU SHOULD READ THE DEFINITIONS.

    Hey, *I* did not write them, but *I* can read them.

    Can you?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  44. #44
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Billy, thanks for the clarification (but I could not get it to work) but
    Ted already posted the entire statute link,
    .
    Jim,

    Sorry the pdf did not open for you.

    Ted did not post the entire statue.

    try google keyless bolting device
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  45. #45
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Now I have to admit. The only other type of dead bolt system I have seen is the round flat plate that is screwed into the door jamn and extends ot beyond the face of the door and you slide that flat round plate into it which does act as the same thing. The reason I forgot about that is because they are seldom used. They like to place keyless deadbolt an equal distance away from the door knob as a dead bolt is incase entry need be gained and they do not want to destroy the door. They can simply drill a hole and use a screw driver to turn the deadbolt and then they mount a plate (scewed on from the inside) over that drilled hole to patch the hole later.

    Those are the only 2 types I have seen used. A face mounted sliding deadbolt is never used for such. Or any other type of bolting device.


  46. #46
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Those are the only 2 types I have seen used. A face mounted sliding deadbolt is never used for such. Or any other type of bolting device.
    You mean you've never seen: (underlining is mine)

    [quote](C) by a metal bar or metal tube that is placed across the entire interior side of the door and secured in place at each end of the bar or tube by heavy-duty metal screw hooks. The screw hooks must be at least three inches in length and must be screwed into the door frame stud or wall stud on each side of the door. The bar or tube must be capable of being secured to both of the screw hooks and must be permanently attached in some way to the door frame stud or wall stud. When secured to the screw hooks, the bar or tube must prevent the door from being opened unless the bar or tube is removed by a person who is on the interior side of the door.[/quote]

    Question: Is that even allowed? Would not that set up require "special knowledge" to open in case of an emergency?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  47. #47
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    [quote=Jerry Peck;63242]You mean you've never seen: (underlining is mine)

    (C) by a metal bar or metal tube that is placed across the entire interior side of the door and secured in place at each end of the bar or tube by heavy-duty metal screw hooks. The screw hooks must be at least three inches in length and must be screwed into the door frame stud or wall stud on each side of the door. The bar or tube must be capable of being secured to both of the screw hooks and must be permanently attached in some way to the door frame stud or wall stud. When secured to the screw hooks, the bar or tube must prevent the door from being opened unless the bar or tube is removed by a person who is on the interior side of the door.[/quote]

    Question: Is that even allowed? Would not that set up require "special knowledge" to open in case of an emergency?
    Th only ones I see allowed are the ones I described. Most officials do not like the round metal plate deal. If someone has all their doors safety locked and then they leave by the garage and the garage door stops working the only way to access a home is to break in the door (or window). The keyless deadbolt (with thumb turn) is what I see recommended where ever I go. These are always the same distance as a regular dead bolt and a drill thru the door and a screw driver can disable this type and the fix is quite simple and non destructive.


  48. #48
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Did this thread get completely off topic or what? From a water heater allowed in a kitchen to a bar across a door! No place but here!!


  49. #49
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    Default Re: Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    Did this thread get completely off topic or what? From a water heater allowed in a kitchen to a bar across a door! No place but here!!
    I think what we all need is a bar across from our door. Then it would get real interesting


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