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  1. #1
    Mike Cudahy's Avatar
    Mike Cudahy Guest

    Thumbs up Images of Tankless Heater Installs?

    I'm working on a technical-code project to better spell out how to better and more consistantly plumb up tankless heater units. Would you send me any images you have of both "good" and "bad" installs of tankless water heaters? I need them to explain the current issues.

    Thanks,
    Mike
    PPFA

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Images of Tankless Heater Installs?

    You may want to consider downloadiing install guides from the various manufacturer's. I know that the Rinnai and Rheem install guides have pictures as to how they want the piping configured. Rinnai also sells a complete manifold system for their units. All you have to do is screw it onto the unit and attach hot/cold to the manifolds. Piping, valves everything else is all assembled.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Images of Tankless Heater Installs?

    Mike,

    Please go to the User CP link on the left just under the InspectionNews logo and enter your city ... "Location: Florida" ... "Florida" is a rather large state.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  4. #4
    Joshua Hardesty's Avatar
    Joshua Hardesty Guest

    Default Re: Images of Tankless Heater Installs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Keller View Post
    You may want to consider downloadiing install guides from the various manufacturer's. I know that the Rinnai and Rheem install guides have pictures as to how they want the piping configured. Rinnai also sells a complete manifold system for their units. All you have to do is screw it onto the unit and attach hot/cold to the manifolds. Piping, valves everything else is all assembled.


    There was a small debate about those valves a while back -- They come with a port for a pressure relief valve, but it's too short for there to be a temperature probe. The instructions say it only needs a pressure relief, but also says to follow local codes, which indicate a need for a temperature and pressure relief. Of course, it's hard to stick a probe in a 3/4th pipe.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Images of Tankless Heater Installs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Mike,

    Please go to the User CP link on the left just under the InspectionNews logo and enter your city ... "Location: Florida" ... "Florida" is a rather large state.

    Mike,

    Thank you for the update to "Location: Southern Florida"

    However, what part of "Southern Florida"?

    - South Florida? (Most commonly thought of as southeast Florida which includes: Palm Beach County, Broward County, and Miami-Dade County.)

    - Southwest Florida? (Naples, Ft. Meyers area.)

    - Below Lake Okeechobee?

    A city, a county, something would help us, thanks.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Images of Tankless Heater Installs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Hardesty View Post
    There was a small debate about those valves a while back -- They come with a port for a pressure relief valve, but it's too short for there to be a temperature probe. The instructions say it only needs a pressure relief, but also says to follow local codes, which indicate a need for a temperature and pressure relief. Of course, it's hard to stick a probe in a 3/4th pipe.

    The code requires: (from the 2006 IRC) (underlining and red text are mine)

    a) P2801.2 Installation. Water heaters shall be installed in accordance with this chapter and Chapters 20 and 24.

    b) Chapter 24 if Fuel Gas, so if it is gas, you use that and Chapter 20.

    c) Chapter 20 is Mechanical, so if it is not gas, you use Chapter 20.

    d) Chapter 20 states:
    - SECTION M2005
    - - WATER HEATERS
    - - M2005.1 General.
    Water heaters shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions and the requirements of this code. Water heaters installed in an attic shall conform to the requirements of Section M1305.1.3. Gas-fired water heaters shall conform to the requirements in Chapter 24. Domestic electric water heaters shall conform to UL 174 or UL 1453. Commercial electric water heaters shall conform to UL 1453. Oiled-fired water heaters shall conform to UL 732.

    e) Chapter 28 is water heaters, and they must also be installed in accordance with this chapter, which states:
    - RELIEF VALVES
    - - P2803.1 Relief valves required.
    Appliances and equipment used for heating water or storing hot water shall be protected by:
    - - - 1. A separate pressure-relief valve and a separate temperature-relief valve; or
    - - - 2. A combination pressure- and temperature-relief valve.

    No ifs, not ands, not buts, just "shall be protected by", and then you are given a choice between using TWO *separate* relief valves, OR, ONE *combination* relief valve. Those are your two choices, and your only two choices ... given in the code.




    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  7. #7
    Joshua Hardesty's Avatar
    Joshua Hardesty Guest

    Default Re: Images of Tankless Heater Installs?

    Furthering this discussion, how far away from the tankless heater can the T&P be? T&P's are meant to be inserted INTO the tank of the heater, thus probing water inside of it. So how do you probe something like this?


  8. #8
    Richard Pultar's Avatar
    Richard Pultar Guest

    Default Re: Images of Tankless Heater Installs?

    it's a tankless job
    manufacturers specs are to be followed
    it's like a instant water heater at the sink


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Images of Tankless Heater Installs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Pultar View Post
    it's a tankless job
    manufacturers specs are to be followed
    it's like a instant water heater at the sink
    .

    "manufacturers specs are to be followed" ... ALONG WITH following the code.

    The code states that it must be installed in accordance with: a) the manufacturer's installation instructions; b) AND; c) the code (specifically those chapters I posted).

    It is not 'one or the other' which must be followed, it is "BOTH" which must be followed.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Images of Tankless Heater Installs?

    Mike from Southern Florida

    1) Service valves
    I have seen several installations that do not have the recommended service valves (and water filter) installed. The service valves are required to perform periodic flushing of the heat exchanger. This is critical in locations with "hard" water and high calcium content.

    See Rinnai installation manual.

    Rinnai error code: An “LC” or “00” error code indicates the unit is beginning to lime up and must be flushed. Failure to flush the appliance will cause damage to the heat exchanger. Damage caused by lime buildup is not covered by the unit’s warranty. After flushing, reset the LC fault code by turning off the power to the unit and turning the power back on.

    2) Hot Water Circulating Pumps

    If circulating pumps are used they should be "on demand" (activated only when hot water is used) and not used in continuous mode. The warranty coverage is reduced when used in "continuous".

    3) Temperature settings

    Warranty is reduced if setting is 160F or greater

    Here are some pix...

    Charles from Northern New Mexico

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Images of Tankless Heater Installs?

    I see tankless water heaters in a good number of homes I inspect. I would say the in my area Rinnai are the most common. This is their site Rinnai. America's Leading Tankless Water Heaters: Energy Saving, Forever Hotwater

    Most of the installs have similar problems. Clearance issues with gas units; TPR problems; no overflow pans; and too small of units for their intended purpose.

    Another problem I have run into are on home that have a circulation pump installed. The tankless units require a small holding tank for the pump to work properly. The plumbers in my area have been using a small electric 2 gallon water heater for this purpose.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Images of Tankless Heater Installs?

    I see tankless water heaters in a good number of homes I inspect. I would say the in my area Rinnai are the most common. This is their site Rinnai. America's Leading Tankless Water Heaters: Energy Saving, Forever Hotwater

    Most of the installs have similar problems. Clearance issues with gas units; TPR problems; no overflow pans; and undersized units for their intended purpose.

    Another problem I have run into are on home that have a circulation pump installed. The tankless units require a small holding tank for the pump to work properly. The plumbers in my area have been using a small electric 2 gallon water heater for this purpose.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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