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  1. #1
    Sean E's Avatar
    Sean E Guest

    Angry Help Please - CSST Leaking Connection

    Hello All -

    This is my first post on this board, and I need some help (this is being written on Christmas Day) as soon as any of you can respond.

    Two days ago, We had a CSST line run from the gas meter (actually: then meter, then black pipe then CSST through the crawlspace then blackpipe then fitting at the stove). I smelled gas, so I called the contractor back, and he said he found the leak and tightened the fitting.

    This morning I noticed gas again (in the 1/2 basement, adjacent to the crawlspace) - so I crawled in there to look at the connection (see attached). To me, this connection looks pretty bad - I mean, it approaches the fitting at an angle - and I could smell gas there. I also note the covering is cut back - which I've seen in some photographs, so that may be ok...

    This is what I want to know: Does this connection look bad to you guys?

    I'm getting them back out here to rip it apart and re-seat it, but I've lost confidence in them (this will be the third time) and would like to know what other problems I should be looking for? Any quick responses would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks!
    Sean

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: Help Please - CSST Leaking Connection

    In general, the tubing should be straight coming off of the fitting and may need to be cut off and the connection remade. Smartest thing is to shut off the gas and get a professional to repair. The brand name of the tubing should be printed on the yellow jacket. You can find most brands installation instructions on-line.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  3. #3
    Sean E's Avatar
    Sean E Guest

    Default Re: Help Please - CSST Leaking Connection

    Thanks Jim -

    That's just what I suspected. I've got call in to the contractor now - and am hoping to have this mess cleared up in the next 24 hours.

    Thanks for the assist - Happy Holidays!

    Sean


  4. #4
    Richard Pultar's Avatar
    Richard Pultar Guest

    Default Re: Help Please - CSST Leaking Connection

    Ask to see the workers installers certification for csst.
    ask how long the pressure test was on for
    soap the joints yourself


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Help Please - CSST Leaking Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Pultar View Post
    Ask to see the workers installers certification for csst.
    Sean,

    This is what Richard is referring to: (from the TracPipe by OmegaFlex Design and Installation guide - very first thing in the guide)

    (underlining is mine)
    - Chapter 1
    - - Introduction
    - - - WARNINGS
    - - - - SECTION 1.0 — USER WARNINGS

    - - - - - The TracPipe® gas piping material (CSST Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing ) must only be installed by a qualified person who has been trained or otherwise qualified through the TracPipe Gas Piping Installation Program. Any installer must also meet qualifications in accordance with state and/or local requirements as established by the administrative authority which enforces the plumbing or mechanical code where the gas piping is installed.

    Being a licensed gas or plumbing contractor does not negate the fact that they must meet the training or qualification through the TracPipe Gas Piping Installation Program, their licensing simply meets the "must also meet" part.

    Workers or employees of the licensed and 'trained and certified installer' *must also be trained and certified* in the installation of the CSST - otherwise they do not even meet the very first step of the installation requirements.

    ask how long the pressure test was on for
    Also ask what pressure the test was made under.

    From the 2006 IRC.
    - SECTION G2417 (406)
    - - INSPECTION, TESTING AND PURGING
    - - - G2417.1 (406.1) General. Prior to acceptance and initial operation, all piping installations shall be inspected and pressure tested to determine that the materials, design, fabrication, and installation practices comply with the requirements of this code.


    - - - - G2417.1.1 (406.1.1) Inspections. Inspection shall consist of visual examination, during or after manufacture, fabrication, assembly or pressure tests as appropriate.


    - - - - G2417.1.2 (406.1.2) Repairs and additions. In the event repairs or additions are made after the pressure test, the affected piping shall be tested.
    - - - - - Minor repairs and additions are not required to be pressure tested provided that the work is inspected and connections are tested with a noncorrosive leak-detecting fluid or other approved leak-detecting methods.
    - - - - G2417.1.3 (406.1.3) New branches. Where new branches are installed to new appliances, only the newly installed branches shall be required to be pressure tested. Connections between the new piping and the existing piping shall be tested with a noncorrosive leak-detecting fluid or other approved leak-detecting methods.



    - - - G2417.4.1 (406.4.1) Test pressure. The test pressure to be used shall be not less than one and one-half times the proposed maximum working pressure, but not less than 3 psig (20 kPa gauge), irrespective of design pressure. Where the test pressure exceeds 125 psig (862 kPa gauge), the test pressure shall not exceed a value that produces a hoop stress in the piping greater than 50 percent of the specified minimum yield strength of the pipe.


    - - - G2417.4.2 (406.4.2) Test duration. The test duration shall be not less than 10 minutes.



    soap the joints yourself
    From the TracPipe by OmegaFlex Design and Installation guide.
    - Chapter 6
    - - Pressure/Leakage Testing
    - - - Section 6.0 - Pressure Test Procedure
    - - - - 4. (this section is shaded for highlighting so you do not miss it)
    - - - - 4. USE ONLY NON-CORROSIVE LEAK CHECK SOLUTIONS. Rinse with water and dry the tubing thoroughly after leak detection.

    Note that "soap" is corrosive if you mix your own testing liquid. Use only an approved non-corrosive gas leak detection liquid.


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
    Sean E's Avatar
    Sean E Guest

    Default Re: Help Please - CSST Leaking Connection

    The tech just left...I hit all these points with him, and went into the crawl with him (I wonder what contractors think when they show up and the homeowner is in their own coveralls, flashlight in hand, etc).

    The installation looks much better - he completely ripped the other connection apart, and rebuilt the entry into the crawlspace. Now the connection is along the wall, in line, running straight back, well supported and looks tight - no leaks.

    Thanks all for your support in this - I am hopeful that this is the end of this episode.

    Happy Holidays -


    Sean


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Help Please - CSST Leaking Connection

    Great, now have you thought about electrical bonding as required on CSST?

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Help Please - CSST Leaking Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Great, now have you thought about electrical bonding as required on CSST?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean E View Post
    CSST line run from the gas meter (actually: then meter, then black pipe then CSST ...
    Jim,

    I'm guessing that the original gas line installation was already bonded, the meter was already there (as I read it) and this was just a new branch off an already bonded gas piping system.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Help Please - CSST Leaking Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I'm guessing that the original gas line installation was already bonded, the meter was already there (as I read it) and this was just a new branch off an already bonded gas piping system.
    Jerry,

    Around here, bonding of gas piping was not really enforced until just a few years ago.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Help Please - CSST Leaking Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I'm guessing that the original gas line installation was already bonded, ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Jerry,

    Around here, bonding of gas piping was not really enforced until just a few years ago.
    Guess I'd better amend what I said then ... "I'm ASSUMING that the original gas line installation was already bonded, and that the contractor KNOWS TO BOND IT IF NOT already bonded."

    Gunnar, is that better?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
    Sean E's Avatar
    Sean E Guest

    Default Re: Help Please - CSST Leaking Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Great, now have you thought about electrical bonding as required on CSST?
    Yes, it's bonded - which is good. We don't get much lightening activity up here in the NW - but it's bonded regardless.

    Thanks,
    Sean


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Help Please - CSST Leaking Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Guess I'd better amend what I said then ... "I'm ASSUMING that the original gas line installation was already bonded, and that the contractor KNOWS TO BOND IT IF NOT already bonded."

    Gunnar, is that better?
    Well... It'll have to do. If there is one thing that I have learned from you is to never assume.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Help Please - CSST Leaking Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    never assume.
    Gunnar,

    Not sure if you have noticed, but lately (this year or maybe even earlier), and other than in the post above, I don't use the word "assume", I use the word "presume" instead.

    There is a slight difference between the two meanings, and "presume" is my choice between the two ...

    ... except in the post above, where "assume" exaggerated the point better.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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