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  1. #1
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    Default Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    Saw this today in a new "manufactured" home. Actually, I am not certain if it is a manufactured or a modular home. It was 2 stories tall and did not "feel" like a manufactured/mobile home. I realize that there are now 2 story manufactured homes, but the subfloor was OSB, the perimeter foundation was some weird metal panel system and there were no paired mid-span metal girders like I find under manufactured and mobile homes.

    I have perused some past posts about direct-vent water heaters and it looks like a direct-vent water heater is OK in a bedroom closet. Is that correct? I sure don't like it.

    On a side track, the water heater is "for installation in a manufactured home". Now, how do you tell the difference between a manufactured home and a modular home? It seems to me that a modular home would have to conform to the CBC and a manufactured home to HUD.

    This whole place was weird.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    Of what I've been told, a modular home comes with no wheels.

    A manufactured home is basically a mobile home. A modular home is more like a stick built home but is constructed in a manufacturing plant and shipped out to be built on ones site.

    A mobile home has to be able to clear an highway overpass too so you won't see any 2 story mobile homes.

    Never have seen a direct vented water heater in the closet of either though.

    rick

    Last edited by Rick Hurst; 02-19-2009 at 04:18 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    Rick,

    Nor have I. However, when I searched the forum, I came up with this:

    http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...-location.html

    I have read and re-read it and it seems to say installation in a bedroom is OK, if a sealed door or the water heater is a direct-vent unit.

    There was enough stuff to defer on, but I was curious about the bedroom closet location.

    No wheels under this home, but it also did not have the two large metal girders that span the length of the home. I suppose the sections could have been brought in on a flatbed and never had any girders.

    Last edited by Gunnar Alquist; 02-19-2009 at 04:23 PM.
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  4. #4
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    Direct vent drawing the combustion air from outside as well/ My question is. Why would they put it in the closet. I see new homes all the time at the exterior of the exterior wall. A closet makes it not accessible at all once you have anything in it. I would say with out looking at anything that it is not allowed. Or should not be allowed. Gas leak, water leak, the unit going bad and venting into the home, combustine air issues, vents in the ceiling for proper ventilatio etc etc

    As far as the description of the home it is a mudular home built in boxes/rectangles and set on top of one another.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Direct vent drawing the combustion air from outside as well/ My question is. Why would they put it in the closet. I see new homes all the time at the exterior of the exterior wall. A closet makes it not accessible at all once you have anything in it. I would say with out looking at anything that it is not allowed. Or should not be allowed. Gas leak, water leak, the unit going bad and venting into the home, combustine air issues, vents in the ceiling for proper ventilatio etc etc
    The water heater is in a second floor bedroom closet. No idea as to why it was put there and not on the first floor. Took a looong time to get water to the kitchen. I have some of the same problems that you have. However, it is difficult to argue something by saying "I really don't think it is a good idea". I do have other items to defer on, but was looking for information on the location/placement, in particular. Your point about accessibility is valid and I will make suitable remarks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    As far as the description of the home it is a mudular home built in boxes/rectangles and set on top of one another.
    If that is the case, then is this water heater installation acceptable? The label clearly states "manufactured home" not modular (or mudular in Texas). Seems to me that would make it incorrect.

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  6. #6
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    What. You didn't like "mudular" I guess that comes from the wet clay when it rains

    Factory-Built Homes

    Many types of structures are built in the factory and designed for long-term residential use. In the case of manufactured and modular homes, units are built in a factory, transported to the site and installed. In panelized and pre-cut homes, essentially flat subassemblies (factory-built panels or factory-cut building materials) are transported to the site and assembled. The different types of factory-built housing can be summarized as follows:

    Manufactured Homes: These are homes built entirely in the factory under a federal building code administered by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). The Federal Manufactured Home Construction and Safety Standards (commonly known as the HUD Code) went into effect June 15, 1976. Manufactured homes may be single- or multi-section and are transported to the site and installed. The federal standards regulate manufactured housing design and construction, strength and durability, transportability, fire resistance, energy efficiency and quality. The HUD Code also sets performance standards for the heating, plumbing, air conditioning, thermal and electrical systems. It is the only federally-regulated national building code. On-site additions, such as garages, decks and porches, often add to the attractiveness of manufactured homes and must be built to local, state or regional building codes.

    Modular Homes: These factory-built homes are built to the state, local or regional code where the home will be located. Modules are transported to the site and installed.

    Panelized Homes: These are factory-built homes in which panels - a whole wall with windows, doors, wiring and outside siding - are transported to the site and assembled. The homes must meet state or local building codes where they are sited.

    Pre-Cut Homes: This is the name for factory-built housing in which building materials are factory-cut to design specifications, transported to the site and assembled. Pre-cut homes include kit, log and dome homes. These homes must meet local, state or regional building codes.

    Mobile Homes: This is the term used for manufactured homes produced prior to June 15, 1976, when the HUD Code went into effect. By 1970, these homes were built to voluntary industry standards that were eventually enforced by 45 of the 48 contiguous states.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    Ted,

    Thanks. Still not entirely sure. Either modular or manufactured could be it. If I end up going back to crawl (after the lake goes away), I will be able to get a better look at the substructure.

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  8. #8
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Ted,

    Thanks. Still not entirely sure. Either modular or manufactured could be it. If I end up going back to crawl (after the lake goes away), I will be able to get a better look at the substructure.

    Well there you go. Manufactured homes are generally rolled in and mounted on blocks or piers. A modular home comes in multiple almost complete cubes, rectangles or almost any shape now and mounted on a foundation and can be 2 or 3 stories. I've seen modular homes come in 6 pieces, 2 for each floor and three stories tall and 16 hundred feet or more on each floor.

    I guess all facets of installing a standard water heater in a closet with all the ventilation and the does and do nots kept in check with accepted locations

    The biggest I would think would be a bedroom closet is going to be used to hang and store clothes and other goods. Again no access.


  9. #9
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    Say Gunnar in what part of Sonoma county did you find this object that some wants to call a home

    I don't think i has come across any like that.

    Best

    Ron


  10. #10
    Ralph Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    If there are no steel beams then not a mobile home or manufactured home. Some modular homes come in 2 halves that have a hinged 2nd floor that swings up out of the 1st floor to make a 1.5 floor home.


  11. #11
    R Gann's Avatar
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    Gunnar a manufactured (HUD) home will have a 2" x 5" approx. metal label on each half of the structure. Usually located 12" up from the floor and 12" in from the rear end wall on the sidewall side. Also a data plate stuck to either the panel box, under the kitchen sink on the cabinet door, or in a closet. But the water heater should be located in a compartment that is separated from the closet by partition and an access panel.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    On a side track, the water heater is "for installation in a manufactured home".
    From what I understand, heaters approved for use in a manufactured home have conversion orifices supplied to provide for LP or natural gas but are otherwise similar. I think that the "approved for use in a manufactured home" would not preclude its use in another type of structure.

    Jim Luttrall
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  13. #13
    Mark Jones's Avatar
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    This wasn't mentioned that I could see: When was the home built?

    I have a friend who bought a home a long time ago that had been ordered from Sears. (He didn't build it.) This was in Siskiyou County, CA. It came on trucks as pre-cut lumber, sheets of plywood, crates of nails, bundles of pipe, etc., and a booklet of plans and instructions. The foundation was to have been built in advance, and a suitable crew assembled to actually build the place. It was called a "modular" home at the time. It was probably built in the '40's but I'm not sure.

    You could never tell by looking at it that it came as a kit.


  14. #14
    R Gann's Avatar
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    I have a couple of images one of mfg. housing(HUD) and one of an Arkansas modular, I think some of you should see. BUT I cannot figure out hoe to copy from my computer to post them here can anyone give me instructions thanks.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    Quote Originally Posted by R Gann View Post
    I have a couple of images one of mfg. housing(HUD) and one of an Arkansas modular, I think some of you should see. BUT I cannot figure out hoe to copy from my computer to post them here can anyone give me instructions thanks.

    After you get to the reply to thread, pan down to additional options. Click on "UP Load Photos".

    Then click on "Browse" Go to the file you want to send and sellect it.

    The click on "Upload"


  16. #16
    R Gann's Avatar
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    This is a Deer Valley home from Guin, AL. It was set in Arkansas

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  17. #17
    Dennis Webber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    On a side track, the water heater is "for installation in a manufactured home". Now, how do you tell the difference between a manufactured home and a modular home? It seems to me that a modular home would have to conform to the CBC and a manufactured home to HUD.
    Mobile homes are now officially called Manufactured Homes. They are built under the Manufactured Homes Construction and Safety Standards as published by Department of Housing and Urban Development.

    Modulars are also built in factories, can look very much like mobs,or can be identical to site-built construction. In-fact, many site-built homes start out in factories, some as true modulars (with closed construction) and some just as shells. Quite common in colder climates where the builder puts in the foundation while the weather is still warm and builds the shell in a pole barn for placement in cold weather. Common here in N Indiana.

    Personally, I have reviewed & inspected everything from concrete communication buildings being sited a NASA's Cape Kennedy to a fully furnished restaurant; where you go to work in the morning past a vacant lot and come home to see a the drive-up window's driveway being poured.

    Modulars are constructed to the codes being used in the state for all site-built construction and often must also comply with local requirements. Normally this is to the IRC with state and local amendments. In Canada, they will meet the requirements of each province and are normally listed to CSA requirements (which is accepted in all provinces, *I think*.)

    An easy way to tell the difference is in the certification.

    A Manufactured Home will have it's certification permanently attached to the outside of the home. Look at or near the off-hitch end (tail-light end) for a certification label. The label is 2"x4" of red aluminum metal. It will be located 1' up from the floor and 1' end from the side (will either be on the back of the module or the sidewall). Mobs can be two story, but very rare.

    Modulars will also have certification labels, depending of the state it's shipped into. These labels are usually located near the panelboard, under the kitchen sink or on the back of a closet wall. (The actual requirements vary per state & manufacturer.) I'm not certain where the CSA certification is located. Haven't done any Canadian work for many years now.

    Mobs are required to use sealed combustion water heaters (unless they are in a exterior compartment, sealed from the interior.) As sealed combustion appliances, they can be located anywhere in the home. Same as modulars under the IRC in Section 2005.2. I imagine the the CGC regs are the same.

    In addition, water heaters used in mobs are required to be labeled as "Suitable for Use in a Mobile Home".


  18. #18
    Richard Hamann's Avatar
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    Some years ago I came across a gas fired, direct vent water heater in a compartment of a bedroom closet. The access wood sliding door had no louvers. The adjacent closet door to the left housed a direct vent, gas forced air furnace with A/C. The plastic tubing at the base of the water heater is the furnace condensate line passing through the wall and terminating at a floor drain. In addition to the unusual location of the water heater, my concern was the make-up air for both appliances in close proximity in a bedroom when both appliances were running. 15 year old two story apartment building with no basement. Slab on grade. Everything was approved by the city code engineer. This is the only gas fired water heater in a bedroom closet I have ever seen.

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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Direct vent WH in bedroom closet

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    Say Gunnar in what part of Sonoma county did you find this object that some wants to call a home I don't think i has come across any like that. Best Ron
    Ron,

    West side Petaluma. This is on a regular city lot, not in a mobile home park. I have never seen anything like it either. No mid-span blocks like Ted referred to. Typical for mobile/manufactured. I have never inspected a 2 story manufactured either. This whole thing was unusual.

    I have seen the labels on other manufactured/mobile homes. No label.

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