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  1. #1
    Jeff Eastman's Avatar
    Jeff Eastman Guest

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    When I posted a similar question last year this is part of the reply I got from Jerry Peck:

    "Look at the installation requirements for the shower pan material - the shower pan material ITSELF is required to slope 1/4" per foot to the drain."

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
    www.ArnoldHomeInspections.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    John is correct.

    It used to be only in the manufacturers installation instructions, now it's in the code too.

    - P2709.3 Installation.
    Lining materials shall be pitched one-fourth unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) to weep holes in the subdrain by means of a smooth, solidly formed subbase, shall be properly recessed and fastened to approved backing so as not to occupy the space required for the wall covering, and shall not be nailed or perforated at any point less than 1 inch (25.4 mm) above the finished threshold.



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    Jeff,

    Your best to inform your client and avoid a pissing match with the builder.

    JMHO


  5. #5
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    I agree with Rick....write what you see and let others decide what is to be done.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Jeff,

    Your best to inform your client and avoid a pissing match with the builder.

    JMHO
    You Whimp!

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    Jerry,

    Whimp? I can accept that.

    I have argued with enough of these builders over the years to last me a lifetime.

    I give my clients facts and tell them if the builder disagrees for him to show my client his facts otherwise.

    It never happens. The builder knows you have him by the spheres and can't argue back with anything legit.

    I just don't have the time to bullshit with these builders or paid to do so.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    I just don't have the time to bullshit with these builders or paid to do so.
    Guess that's the difference ... I did.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    Jerry,

    I make plenty $$$ myself too, and don't argue with the builders. Not much anyway.

    Here's an example of why I don't argue with builders.

    At a 7K sq. ft. place today. Everything is going fine because I'm there by myself.

    The builder shows up and starts yaking about why in the he77 the buyer is even having an inspection. He said he felt insulted.

    Anyway he has a fixture man coming in to install a big arse chandelier over the hydrotherapy tub. A bit gaudy I know, and against code.

    I mention to the installer that he's wasting his time and he'll probably be coming back to take it down after the buyer sees my inspection report.

    He goes and gets the builder who comes in and starts in calling me everything but a white-boy.

    He even assumed I'm having an affair with his mother too, because he called me a motherf.....

    He gets all pissed off and jumps in his big arse 4X4 and backs right into the agent pulling in the driveway in her 2 week old Mercedes. Yeah, one of those 100K plus type ones too.

    I'm still laughing about it. I wanted to take a picture for you but I didn't have my firearm loaded in case things got out of hand with both parties.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    "The builder shows up and starts yaking about why in the he77 the buyer is even having an inspection"

    One of the few new construction inspections I've done in the past couple of years - the builder's son, who is "in charge" of this development, is down in the basement with me, complaining about why ANOTHER inspection is needed, since the code guy has been there, etc. All the while he's moaning about this, he's standing right next to a metal post holding up a beam (barely) that is so tilted I can't believe it. If it was plumb, it wouldn't have been touching the beam, but that's another story. It was all I could do not to just laugh in his face.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    Rick,

    Many of my clients hired me to do sit downs with the builders.

    Right there at the breakfast room table in their new home: my client, the builder, and me - for however long it took, for as many days as it took, to help the builder digest my report, line item by line item, photo by photo, if that is what the builder needed to 'understand what he was up against'.

    I spent many hours at those sit downs, at $150 per hour, 3 hour minimum.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    Maybe that is something to consider, Jerry.

    Is there like eggs, pancakes, and stuff like that on the table.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Is there like eggs, pancakes, and stuff like that on the table.
    A couple of times, yes, bacon, sausage, eggs ... but no pancakes. (Of course, though, that was the rarity, not the norm.)

    Now, though, they did make sandwiches when we ran over into and past lunch time, which *was* fairly often. Ummmm ... could that be why I put some weight on back then?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  14. #14
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    Did you lay a level on the floor to see if it had a between a 1/4' and 1/2" slope on it?


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    Did you lay a level on the floor to see if it had a between a 1/4' and 1/2" slope on it?
    I did not worry about stuff like that. If the floor slope was noticeable, with granite/marble/saturnia/travertine/wood, it's too much. The top surface of those things should be flat-flat. The slab could be slope, but the floor installers *responsibility*, their *first responsibility* is to prepare the floor, make it flat-flat, to receive the flooring.

    If you 'feel it' roll a golf ball across it, you will see what is high and what is low.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  16. #16
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    I was referring to the shower floor slope. As long as the level shows a slope to the drain it should be ok. Tile work is not an exact science and as long as the level shows grade then a dip or two is normal.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    I was referring to the shower floor slope.
    whoooosh!!!!! Sorry.

    As long as the level shows a slope to the drain it should be ok. Tile work is not an exact science and as long as the level shows grade then a dip or two is normal.
    No that only tells you if the *TILE* is sloped, not if the *PAN LINER* is sloped.

    It's been in the manufacturer's installation instructions from day one, but no one paid any attention to it. Now, though, it's clearly in the code itself (and still, few people even know it there).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    whoooosh!!!!! Sorry.



    No that only tells you if the *TILE* is sloped, not if the *PAN LINER* is sloped.

    It's been in the manufacturer's installation instructions from day one, but no one paid any attention to it. Now, though, it's clearly in the code itself (and still, few people even know it there).
    How would we tell if the pan is flat and thin set (I am supposing) was applied to slope the tiles, or if the pan itself was sloped in a finished shower?

    The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
    - Paul Fix

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Shower stall floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom Walker View Post
    How would we tell if the pan is flat and thin set (I am supposing) was applied to slope the tiles, or if the pan itself was sloped in a finished shower?

    By looking ... but only on new construction.

    Well, sometimes, but rarely, you might be able to look in or around a shower from a back side in some houses, but probably not very many.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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