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  1. #1
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Drain for TPR valve

    One of the inspections today had ther AC condensation drain line, the water heater pan drain lin and the TPR drain line all going into the same drain on the forth floor.

    Is this allowed?????

    Doing the report now.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    If done properly, each with their own indirect connection, yes (as long as the drain is properly sized for them).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  3. #3
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
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    Does not look like it was done correctly.

    Top view is hard to tell, are each of those at least 1-1/2" above the top of the receptor? Need to be.

    Drain size-wise ... drain may be too small.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  5. #5
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    Actually no. They are all in the 3 inch drain line. I got that part and the lines not supported or strapped in place but I was sure that the TPR (mayber not into an open drain) had to be by itself.

    If the TPR were above it in this case water could possible blow all over the place and destroy the third, second and first floor ceilings among other things.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    I was sure that the TPR (mayber not into an open drain) had to be by itself.
    Looks like it is by itself to that drain, and that would be allowed ... IF a proper indirect connection where made with a proper air gap there.

    If the TPR were above it in this case water could possible blow all over the place and destroy the third, second and first floor ceilings among other things.
    Not if the receptacle it was discharging to were large enough (another point I raised was size).

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    I guess in your part of the world they allow CPVC to be used for the T&P valve. I know here in Illinois it must be a metal pipe, and all drains draining into a floor drain must be properly air gapped twice the diameter of the pipe, so if the drain pipe is 1" there should be a 2" air gap, " = 1 " air gap and so on.


  8. #8
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Hasil View Post
    I guess in your part of the world they allow CPVC to be used for the T&P valve. I know here in Illinois it must be a metal pipe, and all drains draining into a floor drain must be properly air gapped twice the diameter of the pipe, so if the drain pipe is 1" there should be a 2" air gap, " = 1 " air gap and so on.

    That is what Jerry is going to as well. That was actually my biggest question was the three lines into that one drain line. Again. It was the drain pan line, the HVAC condensation drain line and the TPR drain line and yes they allow CPVC in the Dallas area. My second biggest question was if all three were allowed as I know in different situations with TPR valve there can be no other drain going into that closed line but this is an open drain. I just did not see anything that told me differently.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    As long as it is an open site drain the T&P valve drain can go into the same open site drain as the WH pan and HVAC condensate line. One of the things I find that is a violation of the plumbing code here is many will have the T&P discharge into the WH pan.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    Here is a floor drain with the T&P discharge and the HVAC condensate line using a Tru-Gap

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  11. #11
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Hasil View Post
    Here is a floor drain with the T&P discharge and the HVAC condensate line using a Tru-Gap

    I just saved that picture. I have seen those many a time but could not remember the name of them.

    Thanks Ron


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    I just saved that picture. I have seen those many a time but could not remember the name of them.

    Thanks Ron
    Your Welcome Ted. Here is the link to their site. Tru-Gap There is a couple other brands out there but by far IMHO these are the best ones.


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    Question visible discharge?

    Doesn't the discharge have to be 'visible'? Ted's case seems to be one where the homeowner may not spot a TPR discharge. I can see where the Tru-Gap would allow visibility.
    Bob

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

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    Default Re: visible discharge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Harper View Post
    Doesn't the discharge have to be 'visible'? Ted's case seems to be one where the homeowner may not spot a TPR discharge. I can see where the Tru-Gap would allow visibility.
    Bob

    Bob,

    As installed in Ted's photo, it is wrong anyway as the T&P discharge line (and the other lines) do not terminate above the receptor's overflow rim.

    When that is corrected (raised up out of the drain, such as in the Tru-Gap) that would solve the air gap problem and address better visibility at the same time.

    Regarding just the visibility aspect by itself, though, I would think the occupants would be able to see it well enough as installed as it is not far down into the drain and they would hear and see it splashing around - mind you, though, I am not saying it is correct, visibility or otherwise, as currently installed.

    This is the code wording which addresses that visibility: (bold underlining is mine)
    - 7. Discharge to a termination point that is readily observable by the building occupants.


    Thus, the pipe in that drain 'could be' deemed "readily observable", but still not correct regarding the required air gap.


    In my opinion, to install it in an attic and then deem it 'readily observable' is an indication of someone smoking something they should not be smoking (like a controlled substance).


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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    Ted,

    Sediment trap on gas line ??

    Gas flex awfully 'tight' ??


    ... and so on ....


  16. #16
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    Quote Originally Posted by Nolan Kienitz View Post
    Ted,

    Sediment trap on gas line ??

    Gas flex awfully 'tight' ??


    ... and so on ....
    Yes all the lines were wrong. Gas flex with to sharp a bed and litterally being used to hold the blast off of the TPR down and the TPR drain line not supported from top to bottom. No sediment trap. The drain line for the condensate was about 4 1/2 to 5 feet long with no support. It also had a vent after the trap but no clean out for the trap and and and.

    Lots wrong .

    As far as the visibility thing this is a mechanical closet on the top off the last stairway before you went out onto the roof deck. Hearing or seeing it would never happen. If you count the roof top deck it was 4 stories.

    Bedroom and grage on one, kitchen, living room and half bath on 2, master bedroom, bath, laundry on three, mechanical room on four just before stepping out to the deck which was the entire roof area.

    That was my question about the electric. Condo in legal name but town home in physical build.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Condo in legal name but town home in physical build.

    Are you sure?

    Condos require less fire-resistant rated assemblies than townhouses do.

    This is because a condo is "one structure" and all that is required is separation of the dwelling unit from each other and the common areas, whereas with a townhouse each townhouse is a "separate structure" and the fire-resistance rating for separation is much greater as you are actually "separating and protecting separate structures".

    Thus there are different physical build requirements. The IRC applies to townhouses, the IBC, IPC, IFC, IMC, etc., apply to condos.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  18. #18
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Are you sure?

    Condos require less fire-resistant rated assemblies than townhouses do.

    This is because a condo is "one structure" and all that is required is separation of the dwelling unit from each other and the common areas, whereas with a townhouse each townhouse is a "separate structure" and the fire-resistance rating for separation is much greater as you are actually "separating and protecting separate structures".

    Thus there are different physical build requirements. The IRC applies to townhouses, the IBC, IPC, IFC, IMC, etc., apply to condos.
    Positive

    Kinda weird but true. Don't know how or why but even financing had been scrued up due to it. The banks policies on condos as of March first is unless the project is about 75% full it is almost impossible to get a loan. They base that on the what ifs of the economy. If it is not a larger % of occupany they figure if the economy turns back down the units will depreciate based on the amount of forclosures and bring everyones value down and it is to much of a risk.

    I know, it is messed up but true. Ful firewalls, sprinkler systems etc on all.


  19. #19
    Alan C Grubb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    This was an informative post and helps me understand what was required when these went into drain lines. However, I was wondering about the 90-degree elbows, seems these would hamper the pressure release, is there anything against having these?

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Are you sure?

    Condos require less fire-resistant rated assemblies than townhouses do.

    Thus there are different physical build requirements. The IRC applies to townhouses, the IBC, IPC, IFC, IMC, etc., apply to condos.
    There is no such thing as a condominium any more as far as the I-codes are concerned.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    There is no such thing as a condominium any more as far as the I-codes are concerned.

    It is the same as it has always been with condominiums in the codes ... you just need to know what they are called and referred to as ...

    Let me know if you need help on that.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Drain for TPR valve

    They got rid of condominiums for a reason in the codes....there was too much confusion between a townhome and a condo. So according to the codes there is no such thing as a condominium. I don't need any help...it's pretty plain. Condos don't exist any more as far as the code is concerned.


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