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  1. #1
    Jerome W. Young's Avatar
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    Default bar sink plumbing ?

    What do you think is going on here?
    This was at an island bar sink.

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  2. #2
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
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    Default Re: bar sink plumbing ?

    I think they need to visit the booze store and restock.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: bar sink plumbing ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome W. Young View Post
    What do you think is going on here?
    This was at an island bar sink.
    Jerome,

    Instead of installing an AAV, or maybe the house was older than when AAVs were allowed, they installed what is known as an "island vent".

    Toilet and Island Vent Illustrations - top left drawing

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  4. #4
    Jerome W. Young's Avatar
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    Default Re: bar sink plumbing ?

    Ok, as long as it works there is nothing wrong with old school construction.
    Thanks!


  5. #5
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    Default Re: bar sink plumbing ?

    Jerome,

    I should add: But they did not do it correctly.

    Instead of entering the stack with a sanitary tee, they entered with a wye, which creates an 'S' like effect on the trap.

    At the top they used two 1/4 bends (90s) instead of two 1/8 bends (45s) and one 1/4 bend (90). Ron or Joshua, our resident plumbers, can probably explain why the two 1/4 bends are never shown as being allowed and must not work as well the 45s + 90.

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 05-22-2009 at 09:07 AM. Reason: Added Joshua's name
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: bar sink plumbing ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome W. Young View Post
    Ok, as long as it works there is nothing wrong with old school construction.
    Thanks!
    I was typing and trying to verify some other information when you posted that, not, not "as long as it works", ... yes there is nothing wrong with old school construction - if done correctly.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: bar sink plumbing ?

    Here's a graphic that shows a loop drain (AKA: Chicago loop)

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: bar sink plumbing ?

    dom,
    jerrys illustration is technically more better. the foot vent requires a cleanout and the foot vent requires a wye where it begins.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: bar sink plumbing ?

    That is a very said attempt at a loop vent. The picture below fits exactly what they want in Illinois. Also here in Illinois, AAV's are not allowed per the code.

    Section 890.1600 Special Venting for Island Fixtures

    a) Traps for island sinks and similar equipment shall be roughed-in above the floor and shall be vented by extending the vent as high as possible, but at least the drainboard height and then returning it downward and connecting it to the horizontal sink drain immediately down stream from the vertical fixture drain. Back-to-back island vented fixtures shall meet the requirements of Section 890.1460.

    b) The returned vent shall be connected to the horizontal drain through a wye-branch fitting and shall be provided with a vent taken off the vertical fixture vent by means of a wye-branch immediately below the floor and extending to the nearest partition and then through the roof to the outside atmosphere or may be connected to other vents at a point at least 6 inches above the flood level rim of the fixture served. Drainage fittings shall be used on all parts of the vent below the floor level and a minimum grade of inch per foot back to the drain shall be maintained. The returned bend used under the drainboard shall be a one-piece fitting or assembly of a 45, a 90, and a 45 elbow in the order named. (See Section 890.1340 and Appendix K: Illustration GG.)

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  10. #10
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: bar sink plumbing ?

    Ron and Dom

    Thanks for the pics. They are better than what I had in my file


  11. #11
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    Default Re: bar sink plumbing ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Hasil View Post
    Section 890.1600 Special Venting for Island Fixtures

    b) ... The returned bend used under the drainboard shall be a one-piece fitting or assembly of a 45, a 90, and a 45 elbow in the order named. (See Section 890.1340 and Appendix K: Illustration GG.)

    Ron,

    Do you know what the reasoning is that the two 45 and one 90 is required and not just two 90?

    Is it to eliminate any possibility of a horizontal top section being placed in the loop? That is the only reason I can think of.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: bar sink plumbing ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Ron,

    Do you know what the reasoning is that the two 45 and one 90 is required and not just two 90?

    Is it to eliminate any possibility of a horizontal top section being placed in the loop? That is the only reason I can think of.
    The two 90º elbows make a flat spot on the vent where condensation can settle and gunk can easily build up. Where as the two 45º elbows into the 90º elbow gives it a peak (less surface area) so any condensation that would normally settle on the flat part can now run off.


  13. #13
    Joshua Hardesty's Avatar
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    Default Re: bar sink plumbing ?

    Please tell me I'm not the only one that noticed that they wye'd the two pipes together, so that only one pipe goes through the floor...



    It's clever. Stupid, and wrong, but clever.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: bar sink plumbing ?

    Thats why I think most of us said it was a poor atempt at a loop vent.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: bar sink plumbing ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Hardesty View Post
    Please tell me I'm not the only one that noticed that they wye'd the two pipes together, so that only one pipe goes through the floor...



    It's clever. Stupid, and wrong, but clever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Hasil View Post
    Thats why I think most of us said it was a poor atempt at a loop vent.

    That along with the other things mentioned.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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