Thread: Location of water heater

I did an inspection on a condo yesterday and the water heater was located in the laundry area. This in itself did not raise my curiosity. But the fact that I say laundry area and not room is the issue. The area is in the kitchen and is about 8ft wide by 4ft deep, it has accordian style doors and holds the water heater, a washer and dryer; as well as the location of the sub panel. I could barely get to the water heater not to mention get behind the washer and dryer ( I did a limited inspection of that area do to the access restraints) So my question is; is this a safety issue? I am going to recommend they move the water. Should I do this?

Also the TPR valve in my opinion has too many bends ( see photo)? And let me know what you think.

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I don't think the bends are a problem as long as the pipe is running downhill. My question would be where does the pipe discharge? It has to discharge in the room the heater is located and through a air gap if it is run out of the room.

Watts allows up to 4 elbows, there are 3 visible and likely at least 1 more.

Being as this is a condo, that may be it as that 4th elbow *may* (or may not) take the discharge line to the riser into which it drains. I would not write it up unless I was convinced that there were more.

Sounds like the submarine panel may have access and clearance problems, but then, it's only an 8 foot long submarine, so it might be okay.

May not be a problem. Not too many elbows.

Depending on a lot of factors, there may be a problem. Heater: electric? Condo: small wood structure, or big concrete structure? I don't know if that difference only applies where I am and not everywhere. Subpanel: facing towards or away or sideways? Under heater: pan? Etc.

David

thanks for the reply's guys.

David to answer you questions.

1. Heater is natural gas

2. Condo is single story wood frame.

3. The Subpanel is facing the water heater directly, this is my main concern.

4. No pan under water heater.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Watts allows up to 4 elbows, there are 3 visible and likely at least 1 more.

Being as this is a condo, that may be it as that 4th elbow *may* (or may not) take the discharge line to the riser into which it drains. I would not write it up unless I was convinced that there were more.

Sounds like the submarine panel may have access and clearance problems, but then, it's only an 8 foot long submarine, so it might be okay.

Jerry are you saying the TPR valve can be discharged where it is not readily observable by the building occupants? How is it observable if to riser?
I have done some condos and always called this out as how would people know they had a problem is they can not see it dripping?

Edgar,
If there is working space 36" in front of the heater and 30 inches wide, it's okay. If not, call it out, but don't expect that anything will change.

edgar,

this situation is too far from my experience to comment on. Condos in concrete highrises follow commercial regulations, in terms of where to place water heaters and also requiring the pressure release pipe to be piped (hardwired) into drain plumbing but separated far from bathroom groups drain plumbing. You don't want to "see" when water leaves the tank through this valve. (then the water damage repairs might have to be paid for by the entire condo association, depending on where water got to: even if it stayed inside your exclusive use living areas, some areas are deemed common property although exclusive for you to use.)

sorry can't help more. Am curious as to whether or not condo buildings ever have to follow different building code rules. In California. In concrete structures. In wood structures. Etc.

seems to me this info will determine whether or not the configuration is deemed one way or the other, acceptable or not.

david

How do you post a new message on here?

Originally Posted by David R2

Am curious as to whether or not condo buildings ever have to follow different building code rules. In California. In concrete structures. In wood structures. Etc.

Regardless of the type of construction, condos are the same as apartment houses as far as occupancy goes and thus follow the 'building code'. If the code in that area also has a 'residential code', condos and apartment houses *do not* follow that 'residential code', they follow the 'building code'.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Regardless of the type of construction...

got it; then townhouse wood structure condos are 'building code', like apartment buildings. So that code applies here in Edgar's situation. It's not treated residential code even though it looks like the same frame and use as residential. Different rules apply.

david

Originally Posted by David Banks

Jerry are you saying the TPR valve can be discharged where it is not readily observable by the building occupants? How is it observable if to riser?
I have done some condos and always called this out as how would people know they had a problem is they can not see it dripping?

The T&P discharge line can be piped to an air gap to the riser (some how or another it must eventually get to that riser), it's just a matter of locating the air gap where it can be seen by the occupants.

Remember, water heaters *are not* designed nor intended to set in water, so if the water heater is set in a pan, the water heater needs to be raised up so that the bottom of the water heater is above the flood level rim of the pan - to keep the water heater dry and from rusting out (either that or provide documentation showing that the water heater is allowed to be installed partially submerged ).

(either that or provide documentation showing that the water heater is allowed to be installed partially submerged ).
Can it be submerged with the Subpanel?

jerry,
pans are required to have drains sooo wouldn't this prevent water heaters from being submerged in h20? duh!

Not Jerry, but.... not until that hole is in the bottom of the pan and the pan elevated. Until then, the heater will be sitting in water. duh-duh.

Originally Posted by David R2

got it; then townhouse wood structure condos are 'building code', like apartment buildings.

Nope.

"Townhouses", i.e., which are owned fee simple from the ground below to the sky above, are considered 'attached single-family', and the IRC may be applied to them.

However, as soon as the structure become "common property", then they are no longer "townhouses", but are "condos". To make this even more confusing, sometimes the ownership is set up such that each unit is a "townhouse", and each building is a group of "townhouses", but each building is part of a "condominium association" in that the common properties (pool, parking lots, etc.) are "condominium owned" by all of the townhouse home owners associations.

Sounds complicated and weird? It is.

So that code applies here in Edgar's situation. It's not treated residential code even though it looks like the same frame and use as residential. Different rules apply.

He referred to it as a 'condo', thus I would suspect that they are indeed 'condos', in which case the IRC does not apply, the IBC and other I codes do (IPC, IMC, etc.)

Originally Posted by Thom Walker

Not Jerry, but.... not until that hole is in the bottom of the pan and the pan elevated. Until then, the heater will be sitting in water. duh-duh.

EVEN THEN ... the water heater is setting in water, ... unless the drain in the bottom of the pan is lower than the bottom of the pan and does not project up into the pan, i.e., a brazed on fitting projecting down from the bottom of the pan.

As soon as you run a fitting up into ... duh! ... "INTO" ... the pan, the pan will hold water to the level of the top of the fitting.

Double Duh-duh!

Originally Posted by David Banks

Can it be submerged with the Subpanel?

Yeah, but that's what I would call really SUBmerged ... how deep is that pan?

Remember, water heaters *are not* designed nor intended to set in water, so if the water heater is set in a pan, the water heater needs to be raised up so that the bottom of the water heater is above the flood level rim of the pan - to keep the water heater dry and from rusting out (either that or provide documentation showing that the water heater is allowed to be installed partially submerged ).[/QUOTE]

if there is a pan direcly under the water heater, isn't its main purpose to collect water and safely drain it out after the tank has rusted out and is leaking water? If so why would we be concerned about the tank rusting because it's not raised above the pan? All the pans I have seen with electric water heaters are sitting directly on the bottom of the pan. Wht am I missing?

FWIW: The San Jose Ca. city code requires that 18" w/h stands in garages etc. must be secured to fixed points eg. framing, presumably as a seismic and/or bump precaution.

In short, they require that:
1. the w/h is strapped.
2. that the w/h is braced tight against framing.
3. any in-situ w/h stand be fixed.

It's interesting that other appliances, similarly located, with ignition potential must also be raised 18", but no mention is made ref. the above three conditions.
I have never seen an in-situ raised, or strapped, clothes dryer for instance!

What a Thread over 5 years old and still ( what's it doing now ? )
.