Mineral deposit on shower tile

**Gary Mohel** · 08-19-2009, 05:26 AM

Would mineral deposits on the tile in a shower pan be an indication of a leak in the shower pan or just the result of hard water? Did not see any water leakage outside of the shower with a stack placed in the shower to hold water in the pan. I held water in the pan for about 25 minutes. Client said that a guy that does shower repair told him the deposits mean there is a leak. Is there another method to see if it is leaking?

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**wayne soper** · 08-19-2009, 05:35 AM

typically that means there is a crack in the substrate and possibly the sub base was not set properly to drain towards the drain and water is pooling between the liner and the top base material. Water will then be pulled up from the base and evaporate at the surface of the crack leaving the minerals. It does not neccessarily mean that the pan is leaking.

**Scott Patterson** · 08-19-2009, 05:35 AM

How old is the shower/pan?

What type of foundation slab, crawlspace, basement?

Mineral deposits are a sign of hard water if they are in the shower or water is leaking through the tiles and sitting below them in the pan. Now if you are finding them outside the shower, etc. I could see that as being a sign of a leak.

**Gary Mohel** · 08-19-2009, 05:50 AM

The shower is in a 5 year old house with a concrete foundation. If there is a leak between the tile and pan does the entire system (tile, pan and enclosure) typically need to be redone or can the tile be sealed?

**wayne soper** · 08-19-2009, 05:56 AM

If it's on slab the only way to detect the leak would be through IR photo.
To rip it all out without knowing for sure is a BIG mess with no sure answers. I would dig out all the mineral deposits, dry it out for a week with a fan on it and then regrout the entire shower stall using a grout with a waterproofing additive and see if that worked.

**Scott Patterson** · 08-19-2009, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by Gary Mohel

The shower is in a 5 year old house with a concrete foundation. If there is a leak between the tile and pan does the entire system (tile, pan and enclosure) typically need to be redone or can the tile be sealed?

I bet that this house has a vinyl type membrane pan.

Have you used any moisture meters around the shower area, adjoining room floors?

If it does have a leak, it needs to be replaced. Repairs are really not an option with a leaking shower pan.

Ron Bibler · 08-19-2009, 06:35 AM

You can do a standard water test on the pan. Plug the drain with a wad of TP. Fill the pan 1 inch from the top of the dam. and let stand for 15 min.

Then look around the adjacent walls and flooring you may need to pull back any carpet. if you have water coming out from under the pan.

Its remove and replace time. Its its only 5 years old it was bad from day one.

Best

Ron

**Jerry Peck** · 08-19-2009, 06:47 AM

*IF* it has a shower pan liner, the shower pan liner was, as about 99.999% of them are, installed incorrectly.

The shower pan liners are installed on the flat floor, whether that floor is wood or concrete. Doing so does not allow/cause the water to drain and weep to the weep holes in the shower drain as is required.

The shower pan liner IS SUPPOSED TO BE installed on a floor which slopes 1/4" per foot to the shower drain where the weep holes are.

When that is not done (it virtually never is, but I have seen it a few times) then what Wayne described happens:

Originally Posted by wayne soper

typically that means there is a crack in the substrate and possibly the sub base was not set properly to drain towards the drain and water is pooling between the liner and the top base material. Water will then be pulled up from the base and evaporate at the surface of the crack leaving the minerals. It does not neccessarily mean that the pan is leaking.

Steven Bynum · 08-19-2009, 01:16 PM

Just seeing mineral deposits is not indicitive of a leak, depending on where you see it. Obviously you would want to note that in your report and call for a specialist to inspect and repair or replace as deemed necessary. I would say as one of the others did to do a standard test on the shower and test with a moisture meter.

**Jerry Peck** · 08-19-2009, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Steven Bynum

Just seeing mineral deposits is not indicitive of a leak, depending on where you see it.

Correct.

If in the floor grout it means nothing.

If in the wall grout at a level about the shower pan curb/threshold it is not good.

Obviously you would want to note that in your report and call for a specialist to inspect and repair or replace as deemed necessary.

Why? If in the floor grout it means nothing.

Well, okay, not "nothing", but it does NOT MEAN there is a "leak" in any way, shape, or form. It means the ground and thin set is losing calcium and the tile may *eventually* come loose, but that is not a leak, and that takes A LOT of calcium loss and degradation.

Steven Bynum · 08-19-2009, 01:41 PM

Yes, but we should leave the client more knowledgeable from the inspection as well as remove any liability from ourselves. A note in the report of the condition (not a leak unless evident) is a prudent suggestion in my opinion.

**Jerry Peck** · 08-19-2009, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Steven Bynum

Obviously you would want to note that in your report and call for a specialist to inspect and repair or replace as deemed necessary.

Originally Posted by Steven Bynum

Yes, but we should leave the client more knowledgeable from the inspection as well as remove any liability from ourselves. A note in the report of the condition (not a leak unless evident) is a prudent suggestion in my opinion.

I am not saying not to put what you found in your report and not to point it out and describe it to your client, I am saying that it is not a problem and is not indicative of anything leaking, which you said it "Obviously ... call for a specialist to inspect and repair or replace ... " which is neither obvious nor necessary.

**Gary Mohel** · 08-20-2009, 05:33 AM

I appreciate all the responses to my question. We did note the mineral deposits in our report and they are on the shower floor and not along the wall.. We also held water in the pan for about 25 minutes during the inspection and did not see any indication of leakage outside of the shower. Thanks for the helpful info.