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  1. #1
    Eric Smith's Avatar
    Eric Smith Guest

    Default Waste Connection

    I cannot find a code related source to support this, but I called this out as an improper connection. I saw nothing on the coupling that gave me the impression that this device was intedned forthe purpose. Does anyone know for sure?

    Thanks H.I.'s

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Montreal, Quebec
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    Default Re: Waste Connection

    There are neopreme couplings that are designed to join pipes of differnet materials, and also same materials. If you go to your local big box store you should find some.
    Here is a reference http://www.americanvalve.com/pdf/Coupling.pdf


  3. #3
    David R2's Avatar
    David R2 Guest

    Default banded coupling/mission coupling; stainless steel band cover

    See post #4 -- i.e. "... banded coupling/mission coupling. These couplings have the stainless steel band covering the entire "rubber boot" (not the rubber couplings with two hoseclamps)...." in this thread: Copper to PVC/CPVC Transition Question - Terry Love's Plumbing & Remodel advice forum , and then the next two followup posts from this same person RioHyde, giving jpg pictures of approved couplings.

    David


  4. #4
    Eric Smith's Avatar
    Eric Smith Guest

    Default Re: Waste Connection

    Thank you David. Much appreciated.


  5. #5
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    Chicago, IL
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    Default Re: Waste Connection


  6. #6
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    Default Re: banded coupling/mission coupling; stainless steel band cover

    Quote Originally Posted by David R2 View Post
    These couplings have the stainless steel band covering the entire "rubber boot" (not the rubber couplings with two hoseclamps)...."
    David,

    Would you provide the code section which states those ("not the rubber couplings with two hoseclamps") are not allowed.

    To my knowledge, once tested, listed and labeled for their respective uses, they are allowed. But I'm always willing to learn where I am wrong so I can improve what I think I know.

    Thanks.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
    David R2's Avatar
    David R2 Guest

    Default no can do. No.

    no i cannot. One day, perhaps, but no for now. It's not my field, it's beyond my knowledge, and I guess I'll have to develop a caveat sentence to add to my signature line explaining how much I don't know factually.

    If you can point me to URLs or key words to search on, I'll learn and know things within a few weeks. I'm willing to do the leg work and be thorough.

    In the long run, most participants will get a feel for what I do and don't know. There must be a better way, to say more clearly, and right away, what I don't know. I didn't spend any time explaining that in the above post because that post was just a reference to another post, which of course leads to the next question (How does that guy RioHyde know?) and all I can say is that he is a Master Plumber in Ohio; more than that I do not know.

    If that is more or less fine by you, then we can continue. I do take direction, too. If I get called on the carpet, well, I'll be 1000% more cautious about what I say and how I say it, and many will then express frustration with all the added caveats, that hide the message.

    Send me a PM if you want to have a lot more discussion, please.

    David


  8. #8
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    Default Re: no can do. No.

    Quote Originally Posted by David R2 View Post
    If I get called on the carpet
    You're not being 'called on the carpet', I thought you knew something about those that I did not, and wanted to learn it too.

    To my knowledge, the ones without the full metal sleeve are also approved for use ... BUT, one must read what each is approved for.

    Some are approved for plastic-to-plastic, some for cast iron-to-cast iron, some plastic-to-cast iron, some even plastic/cast iron-to-plastic/cast iron, I've even seen one approved plastic-to-plastic/cast iron.

    That's in addition to being listed for specific sizes-to-specific sizes.

    I believe the ones with the full sleeve are rated for a higher pressure ... (I know, drain lines are not 'under pressure', but, they are tested under head pressure from above, and in multi-story buildings, when the drain gets clogged, that can become quite a bit of head pressure before reaching a height which will overflow into a fixture on a higher floor. Then, there are roof drain leaders which, well, can back up to the roof, which means on a 26 story building, they 'can' back up 26 stories in height - I doubt they will hold that head pressure back, not even the full banded ones.

    When I inspect them, typically they are inspected for two floors plus a 5 foot head above the top floor being tested, and are tested down to about feet above the floor of the lower floor being tested, which means there is three floors height of water in them. At approximately 10 feet per floor, including the slab between levels, that's 30 feet head pressure above the bottom fittings being tested, the head pressure is (of course) reduced as the pipes go up to the top floor being tested, the head pressure drops to about 5 feet head pressure.

    The IRC requires a minimum of 10 feet of head pressure: (bold is mine)
    - P2503.5.1 Rough plumbing.
    DWV systems shall be tested on completion of the rough piping installation by water or air with no evidence of leakage. Either test shall be applied to the drainage system in its entirety or in sections after rough piping has been installed, as follows:
    - - 1. Water test. Each section shall be filled with water to a point not less than 10 feet (3048 mm) above the highest fitting connection in that section, or to the highest point in the completed system. Water shall be held in the section under test for a period of 15 minutes. The system shall prove leak free by visual inspection.
    - - 2. Air test. The portion under test shall be maintained at a gauge pressure of 5 pounds per square inch (psi) (34 kPa) or 10 inches of mercury column (34 kPa). This pressure shall be held without introduction of additional air for a period of 15 minutes.

    Notice that this does not say DW systems, it states DWV systems, meaning the vent system is tested that way too, which means that a 10 foot minimum head pressure is placed on the highest fitting in the vent system, i.e., that last 1/8 (45) bend in the attic where the vent turns up and goes through the roof - yep ... 10 feet from there up.



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Terry Neyedli's Avatar
    Terry Neyedli Guest

    Default Re: Waste Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Smith View Post
    I cannot find a code related source to support this, but I called this out as an improper connection. I saw nothing on the coupling that gave me the impression that this device was intedned forthe purpose. Does anyone know for sure?

    Thanks H.I.'s
    The neoprene connector should have either the ul,ulc or csa approval stamp.
    Be wary of radiator hose style. I have seen them.
    T.Neyedli
    www.alphahomeinspections.ca


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Waste Connection

    Go to the Fernco link that Michael posted.

    When the page loads, read what is on those two which are shown on that page.

    They specify what they are approved for use with, as do others.

    If it does not say what it is to be used with, it most likely is not approved for use with anything.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Waste Connection

    By the way ...

    Going back to the photo that Eric posted ...

    Those are 'no hub' connectors when used with cast iron. Look at the way that one is bulging out ... I'm guessing there is a spigot at the end of it which originally fit into a hub (see the rust marks where the hub was at originally, packed with oakum rope and then melted lead poured in to seal it). The 'spigot' end is a raised lip around the cast iron, the oakum was packed in tightly around the pipe and packed down to the spigot, the lead kept it all in place.

    When you use a hubless or no hub connector, you need to cut the spigot end off ...

    ... otherwise you will get what is shown in that photo.

    And those connectors *ARE NOT* approved for use with the spigot left on. They are approved to go on smooth pipe and seal around it.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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