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  1. #1
    Chuck Lambert's Avatar
    Chuck Lambert Guest

    Default Water Heater Label

    How many of you have run across this?

    What did you say about it if you have?? This is my second one in two months. My concern is where are these units coming from? Both that I have run across are Bradford Whites.

    Chuck

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Water Heater Label

    I've never run across this.

    I'd probably just inspect it as normal, tell my client's that I don't know for sure what size it is and when it was manufactured, and that there is no warranty.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Water Heater Label

    I have seen them too. Then ones I have seen have had dents in them, so I'm guessing that they were scratch and dent sale items and had the original label taken off, and not covered by the manf any longer.

    Probably bought at salvage place or damaged goods section of big box stores.


  4. #4
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Water Heater Label

    CL: Have not seen these, but thanks for the heads up.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Water Heater Label

    I've only known Bradford White equipment to be legitimately distributed via the trade, not retail sales for DIY installs. Listed equipment sold and installed via authorized distribution (including installed by a plumbing professional) would be labeled.

    From: Bradford White | FAQs

    Why doesn't Bradford White sell directly to the consumer?
    The bottom line is at Bradford White we believe a water heater should be installed by a plumbing & heating professional. The Do-It-Yourself person may be able to handle many small household jobs, but the installation of a water heater could create a dangerous situation if performed incorrectly. There are many local codes and safety requirements that pertain to water heater installation and operation; without understanding these requirements you could be breaking the law as well as endangering yourself and your family.
    Looks like someone has bootlegged some rejected (or more likely) recalled items that the distributor had to send in the rating plate for proof of destruction/inventory credit from BW. Internet sale sites offering BWs direct to consumers or a "plumber" who is not an authorized BW dealer are always questionable.

    Another and perhaps likely possiblity might be that the WH was submerged, and not functioning, an authorized BW rep was called, and pulled the rating as it was condemmed due to exposure to water, and someone else has replaced controls, or made similar "repair".

    See 2005 bulletin: http://www.bradfordwhite.com/pdfs/flooddamagedwh.pdf

    There were also recalls of BWs having certain RS controls (R110s) See: Bradford White | Safety Notifications - Robertshaw R110 and http://www.bradfordwhite.com/Pdfs/CPSC.pdf .

    IIRC there were some flooding issues in some areas a while back in So. Cal.

    From: Bradford White | FAQs

    If my basement flooded, do I need to replace my water heater?



    The Gas Appliance Manufacturers Association (GAMA) has determined that any gas appliance exposed to flooding should be replaced. In a press release, GAMA advised against do-it-yourself repairs:
    “With heavy rains bringing the possibility of severe flooding, it is important to remember that all flood-damaged plumbing, heating, cooling and electrical appliances and related systems should be replaced, rather than repaired... (GAMA) stresses that the repair of flooded appliances and related systems (including damaged venting and electrical connections) is not a job for the do-it-yourselfer, no matter how skilled. This is particularly true of control valves, according to the GAMA official. These components are manufactured to extremely close tolerances. Once submerged in floodwaters, they must be replaced. Field repairs should never be attempted by the homeowner.”
    (taken from www.gamanet.org)
    Potential damage to controls on oil, gas and electric water heaters present an increased risk factor to the homeowner. This damage may be visible, but can also be hidden behind a cover or jacket. Exposure to flooding conditions can cause corrosion of controls and components, a build-up of dirt/debris or a short circuit situation. Even though appliances exposed to flooding may appear to be operational, the gradual buildup of dirt and corrosion over time can render safety devices inoperative.

    What is GAMA?
    GAMA, or the Gas Appliance Manufacturers Association, has been around since 1935 as a national trade association of manufacturers of residential, commercial and industrial appliances and equipment, components and related products. GAMA's scope includes oil-fired and electric equipment as well as gas-fired equipment. For more information about GAMA, please visit their website www.gamanet.org.


    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 12-13-2009 at 09:20 AM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Water Heater Label

    I've seen it a couple of times with water heaters as well as with a/c condenser units.

    What I found out was that when the units were replaced under warranty, the nameplate labels are removed and sent back, with the dealer left to "scrap the units", but instead give them to their employees to install on their personal homes, and for which there is no warranty from the manufacturer, they have already replaced it.

    Does it mean it is "bad" and will not work? No. It might have been fully repaired.

    Does it mean is is "bad" and not allowed to be installed? Yes. There is no nameplate and no listing, and is therefore not allowed to be installed.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Water Heater Label

    "What I found out was that when the units were replaced under warranty, the nameplate labels are removed and sent back, with the dealer left to "scrap the units", but instead give them to their employees to install on their personal homes, and for which there is no warranty from the manufacturer, they have already replaced it."


    I installed a WH in a rental that had a bad thermostat in it. Pulled the thermostat out, and took it back to the plumbing supply house fro replacement. They would not replace it. But they told me if I bring in the "Sticker" I would get a new WH. Yep, I got a new WH, and then put the thermostat in. 2for1.

    "Does it mean is is "bad" and not allowed to be installed? Yes. There is no nameplate and no listing, and is therefore not allowed to be installed."
    I did not know that.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  8. #8
    Phillip Bates's Avatar
    Phillip Bates Guest

    Default Re: Water Heater Label

    Good afternoon:If your gas Code is similar to the provincial codes in Canada an appliance must have a manufacturers rating plate, otherwise it is unapproved & therefore illegal to use.If the plate is simply missing(rarely happens) the local provincial authority(not the utility, by the way, but a provincial authority up here) can be contacted for approval depending on the issue & circumstances.
    Generally new appliances missing the rating plate are stolen from new construction sites & often installed by unlicenced people.Or stolen & installed by licenced people(without their bosses approval, of course).Hence the sticker on your water heater voiding warranty.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Water Heater Label

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Lambert View Post
    How many of you have run across this?

    What did you say about it if you have?? This is my second one in two months. My concern is where are these units coming from? Both that I have run across are Bradford Whites.

    Chuck
    OK, I know that I'm a little slow at times but what is the problem? Is the label in the picture saying that the data plate has been removed? Or is just saying that if it is removed then the warranty is void?

    If I was to see a label as pictured, I would not say anything about it in my report. I would take it as a warning.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Water Heater Label

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    OK, I know that I'm a little slow at times but what is the problem? Is the label in the picture saying that the data plate has been removed? Or is just saying that if it is removed then the warranty is void?

    If I was to see a label as pictured, I would not say anything about it in my report. I would take it as a warning.
    The "rating plate" Is a sticker, and that's where its placed when manufacture is completed (contining Model & Serial Number & Manufacturer location info); therefore, Yes, seeing that warning means the rating plate has been removed, it goes right over that statement just to the left of the warning label with the gas can; void regarding warranty and lacking sticker voids any implied (listed) use.


    "How Old is My (Bradford White) Water Heater" topic explains this in the first paragraph under "Find Your Model & Serial Number" as follows:
    "The water heater's model and serial numbers (A) are located on the Rating Plate (B). The Rating Plate is an adhesive sticker located in the top center of the warning labels as shown here."
    I have attached the photo for those too timid to follow a direct link.

    FYI: The linked document also provides the month/year code for determining date of manufacture for BW WHs (might want to save for future use). Link: Bradford White | Find A Model/Serial Number

    The service an allowance policy (2008) notes this: "Notes: It is the responsibility of the ISC, plumbing contractor or installing plumber to remove and destroy obsolete service policy information."

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    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 12-14-2009 at 03:40 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Water Heater Label

    I have come across this where some of the companies that advertise they they install 40Gal NG water heaters for $600 including the heater, labor and parts. What they been doing is stealing the data plate off the water heaters, and waiting some time and turn them in to get the replacement water heater, then sell the replacement heater to another unsuspecting home owner.

    Now as to you guys coming across these properly working water heaters with out their data plates. I would write them up since now you have no idea what type of warranty the heater has, what the BTU ratting of the heater is which means you can not tell if the gas pipe is properly sized or the vent piping as well. Who ever removed the data plate did the home owner a big disservice.


  12. #12
    Clifford Mark's Avatar
    Clifford Mark Guest

    Default Re: Water Heater Label

    I ran across a water heater just yesterday that had a large "Propane" label on it and small identifiers (labels) indicating "propane" as well. The problem is that the home was supplied by natural gas. What is the correct call on such a discrepancy if it is a problem? Do nozzles need to be changed out? Should a plumber be recommended? Thanks for your expertise on this.

    Cliff Mark
    Austin, TX


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Water Heater Label

    Call it out. You have no idea if the proper conversion has been made. It is my guess that a water heater would continue to work with LP jets and pressure but at a reduced firing rate which would result in longer recovery time. Get an expert to look at it and make the notation of the change on the label.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  14. #14
    Phillip Bates's Avatar
    Phillip Bates Guest

    Default Re: Water Heater Label

    Good morning: In our area of the continent, & I'm certain in your area as well, it is mandatory Code-requirement that the rating plate must state the type of fuel in use by the appliance, & also max to min burner manifold pressure, & orifice sizes,etc.If the fuel is changed the rating plate must show the new fuel & that orifices were changed, perhaps gas supply pipe changed,etc.The correct info must be on the rating plate, & it must be legible & not just written in pen, etc.You should shut off the gas supply to the appliance & notify the owner & local utility - or whomever has jurisdiction in your area for fuels - giving them all pertinent info.

    As to the idea that the only difference in operation might be longer recovery time for heating with, in this case, natural gas if the appliance is assembled for propane, that is a minor issue.The fact is you would have an increase in incomplete combustion of the fuel, hence higher levels of carbon monoxide.If there ever were a problem resulting in the appliance venting into the building(downdraft, negative air condition in the bldg, etc) you would have a safety issue.The WH you are referring to needs immediate attention & should be turned off until corrected.


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