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  1. #1
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    Default CSST in cabinetry

    Is this allowed? CSST under the kitchen cooktop in the cabinet. It passes through the cabinet base and then connects to the appliance connector. There is no support for the shutoff. How should this be setup?

    Also: Is CSST allowed to pass through sheet metal where it enters the fireplace? Seems it should be hard piped similar to a furnace.

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  2. #2
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Barnicle View Post
    Is this allowed? CSST under the kitchen cooktop in the cabinet. It passes through the cabinet base and then connects to the appliance connector. There is no support for the shutoff. How should this be setup?

    Also: Is CSST allowed to pass through sheet metal where it enters the fireplace? Seems it should be hard piped similar to a furnace.
    MB: There are several things wrong with this installation:

    (1) The sharp bends in the CSST are not allowed.
    (2) The shut-off valve must be supported.

    CSST can pass through the sidewall of a metal firebox, but must have a protective plate installed.

    http://www.gastite.com/include/langu...8_DI_Guide.pdf


  3. #3
    David Argabright's Avatar
    David Argabright Guest

    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    I agree with Mr. Miller on all counts. That being said I often see it installed through the prefab walls without protection in this area. I guess the AHJs allow it.


  4. #4
    Sean Wiens's Avatar
    Sean Wiens Guest

    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    IN BC, Canada, the CSST is not approved to enter the casing of any gas appliance. It must be converted to 'hard' pipe prior to passing through the outer shell of the appliance.


  5. #5
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    Cool Re: CSST in cabinetry

    Improper installation. Should have used a terminal flange w/ shutoff to flex connector. If passing through a cabinet or wall with it could be damaged, at least the first 6" would need to be encased in a flexible steel conduit or similar strike/ impact protection.

    when passing through appliance cabinet walls, it must meet the requirements of the appliance, CSST, major and local codes. In most (but not all) cases, the AHJ will allow the CSST to pass through the wall of a Fp if it is protected by a grommet and electrically insulated from the Fp. I typically use rubbe fuel hose sliced to form the grommet and the AHJs love it.
    You also would need to pack or seal the penetration with some sort of insulation or high temp. caulk.

    HTH,

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  6. #6
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    Improper installation.
    BH: Yes, I believe that was already pointed out.

    Should have used a terminal flange w/ shutoff to flex connector.
    BH: That too.

    If passing through a cabinet or wall with it could be damaged, at least the first 6" would need to be encased in a flexible steel conduit or similar strike/ impact protection.
    BH: I do not believe that "need" is reflected in the manufacturer's literature.

    when passing through appliance cabinet walls, it must meet the requirements of the appliance, CSST, major and local codes.
    BH: While this may be true, manufacturers' instructions trump all else save perhaps CPSC.

    In most (but not all) cases, the AHJ will allow the CSST to pass through the wall of a Fp if it is protected by a grommet and electrically insulated from the Fp. I typically use rubbe fuel hose sliced to form the grommet and the AHJs love it.
    BH: That installation will not procure a green tag in the 16-county, 10,000 square mile area I service.

    You also would need to pack or seal the penetration with some sort of insulation or high temp. caulk.
    BH: I get to write this one up on 80% of the installations.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    Quote Originally Posted by David Argabright View Post
    I agree with Mr. Miller on all counts. That being said I often see it installed through the prefab walls without protection in this area. I guess the AHJs allow it.
    They allow it because it isn't in the CODE. It's apparently not within their jurisdiction to enforce manufacturer installation requirements.

    Doesn't the IRC include a statement like, "In accordance with manufacturer installation requirements" when a specific issue is not covered in the IRC?

    The above statements are expressed solely as my opinion and in all probability will conflict with someone else's.
    Stu, Fredericksburg VA

  8. #8
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Brooks View Post
    They allow it because it isn't in the CODE. It's apparently not within their jurisdiction to enforce manufacturer installation requirements.

    Doesn't the IRC include a statement like, "In accordance with manufacturer installation requirements" when a specific issue is not covered in the IRC?
    R102.4 Referenced codes and standards. The codes and
    standards referenced in this code shall be considered part of the
    requirements of this code to the prescribed extent of each such
    reference. Where differences occur between provisions of this
    code and referenced codes and standards, the provisions of this
    code shall apply.
    Exception: Where enforcement of a code provision would
    violate the conditions of the listing of the equipment or
    appliance, the conditions of the listing and manufacturer’s
    instructions shall apply.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    R102.4 Referenced codes and standards.. snipped....
    Thank you sir!

    The above statements are expressed solely as my opinion and in all probability will conflict with someone else's.
    Stu, Fredericksburg VA

  10. #10
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Brooks View Post
    Thank you sir!
    SB: Add this from the NFGC - NFPA 54,
    Reference: Table A.5.6

    TIA 09-2


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  11. #11
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
    mathew stouffer Guest

    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    Bob, I would love to see and example pic of your installation if you have one.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    Did you find that there was a permit for this work and inpections were performed?


  13. #13
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    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    Although my inspections don't typically include verifying that permits were pulled and signed off on, the house was built in 2006 and CSST was installed throughout. So, the likelyhood of it going through the permit/inspection process is high. I would say 99%


  14. #14
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    From the 2006 IRC Commentary:

    CSST is allowed by the manufacturers’ installation
    instructions to connect directly to fixed-in-place, nonportable,
    nonmoveable appliances such as furnaces,
    boilers, gas fireplaces and water heaters. CSST is not
    intended for direct connection to moveable appliances
    such as clothes dryers or ranges nor is it intended to
    connect to appliances suspended on chains or rods
    such as radiant heaters and unit heaters. Also, connecting
    directly to log lighters installed in solid-fuelburning
    fireplaces is not allowed. Direct connection is
    allowed for gas fireplace appliances in accordance
    with the CSST and fireplace manufacturers’ instructions.



  15. #15
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    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    "CSST is allowed by the manufacturers’ installation
    instructions to connect directly to fixed-in-place, nonportable,
    nonmoveable appliances such as furnaces,
    boilers, gas fireplaces and water heaters."

    Ok, please clarify. The manufacturers of CSST allow it, but the furnace manufacturers do not allow it to pass through the sheet metal cabinet, correct? Must be rigid pipe? I mean, furnaces do move...they vibrate. And stainless is a soft metal and prone to damage from the harder and sharp steel of a furnace cabinet.


  16. #16
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Barnicle View Post
    "CSST is allowed by the manufacturers’ installation
    instructions to connect directly to fixed-in-place, nonportable,
    nonmoveable appliances such as furnaces,
    boilers, gas fireplaces and water heaters."

    Ok, please clarify. The manufacturers of CSST allow it, but the furnace manufacturers do not allow it to pass through the sheet metal cabinet, correct? Must be rigid pipe? I mean, furnaces do move...they vibrate. And stainless is a soft metal and prone to damage from the harder and sharp steel of a furnace cabinet.
    MB: Read the literature posted and think. It is not my job to think for you.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    Pic 2 is allowed here but with a grommet of some sorts. Some times they have them foil taped so you can't see what the hole is protected by, also see that green mineral stuffed.

    Mike Schulz License 393
    Affordable Home Inspections
    www.houseinspections.com

  18. #18
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    From Gastite Installation Manual


    APPLICATION

    • All Stubs create a fixed point “stub-out” on a wall or floor surface for meter and appliance attachment.
    • Angle Stub-Out mounting plate provided at a 72-1/2° angle to facilitate mounting to angled side of

    most fireplace inserts.




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  19. #19
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: CSST in cabinetry

    And then, there is this from the same manual:

    The Gastite® Angle Stub is designed to create a secure mounting point or stub-out for the transition from CSST to log-lighters, gas logs, or firebox insert’s controls. Refer to Section 4.2 for Angle Stub Installation.

    The Gastite® Angle Stub shall not be connected in such a way that the log-lighter, gas log, or other components angle out of the fireplace. To correct for the insertion angle into the firebox, metal shims such as fender washers can be used. (See the proper and improper installation Fig. 4-69)

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