Thread: Is pb pipe a problem if you have well water (no chlorine)?

Hello all,

I inspected a modular home out in the country yesterday. I found some PB piping feeding both bathroom sinks. This place has its own well so there is no chlorine like city water.

Is this a problem in this situation (well water)?

Any thoughts on how I should report on this if at all?

Thank you
Have a great week all.


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Mike, I have seen a lot of PB on city water and have not seen any problems with the pipe itself. I have seen more copper pipe with problems of pin hole leaks in this area.

NC licesure board requires us to put this in our report,

"Polybutylene plumbing supply lines (PB) are installed in the subject house. It has been used in this area for many years, but has had a higher than normal failure rate. Copper and brass fittings used in later years have reduced the failure rate. The subject house has Brass -Copper - Plastic - fittings. Polybutylene plumbing pipe is an approved material in North Carolina. For further details contact 1-800-392-7591 or visit the Website http://www.pbpipe.com" You may wish to have the plumbing system evaluated by a licensed plumbing contractor."

Originally Posted by Vern Heiler

Mike, I have seen a lot of PB on city water and have not seen any problems with the pipe itself. I have seen more copper pipe with problems of pin hole leaks in this area.

NC licesure board requires us to put this in our report,

"Polybutylene plumbing supply lines (PB) are installed in the subject house. It has been used in this area for many years, but has had a higher than normal failure rate. Copper and brass fittings used in later years have reduced the failure rate. The subject house has Brass -Copper - Plastic - fittings. Polybutylene plumbing pipe is an approved material in North Carolina. For further details contact 1-800-392-7591 or visit the Website http://www.pbpipe.com" You may wish to have the plumbing system evaluated by a licensed plumbing contractor."

THANK YOU

Vern....just curious...do you put that comment in the summary or just in the body of the report? I don't include it in the summary at this time but have considered to start including it in the summary.

Originally Posted by James Duffin

Vern....just curious...do you put that comment in the summary or just in the body of the report? I don't include it in the summary at this time but have considered to start including it in the summary.

Here is the Blurb I saved from the NCHILB sometime back..... I think putting it in the summary is over the top myself.

"NCHLIB recommends that within the Summary Section
of the home inspection report, the home
inspector identify the potential problem
with Polybutylene plumbing pipe, E IFS
or Aluminum branch circuit wiring and
the home inspector recommends further
investigation, even though the Poly -
butylene, E IFS or Aluminum wiring may
not currently affect the habitability of the
dwelling."

Here is some more from the same news letter.

"Licensees should note the following important
points regarding this action:
• This is a

recommendation by the Board, but is
not a requirement. The Standards of Practice
have not been changed. The Board noted that
the Standards only require describing the
materials (i.e., identifying the exterior wall
cladding as EIFS, etc.) but do not make any
specific requirement as to the extent of information
about these materials which should be

provided to the client."

I put it in the summary and body. PB is just a leak waiting to happen. It is a Further Investigate in the summary for my reports.

I call pb anytime I see it. The problem is usually the crimped fittings failing, not the pipe itsef. So what does chlorine have to do with it? Btw, we're regulated in AZ and there have been numerous complaints about home inspectors that failed to identify pb, or the potential problems.

Hey I just wanted to let anyone/ everyone know that the information links from the NC board are now not functional. The phone line forwards callers to a different line where they can chat socially with "exciting, fun people!" and the pbpipe.com website simply reads "HACKED".
This was a decent site discussing PB if you're looking for an update. Better Plumbing - polybutylene plumbing, poly repipe & plumbing supplies.

just go to Better Plumbing - polybutylene plumbing, poly repipe & plumbing supplies. and see what it says about home inspectors--that should be enough for all

cvf

Here is a link for the latest NC verbiage

NC OSFM | Home Inspector Licensure Board - Engineering and Codes


Here is a better way to report it (in the summary of course):

Polybutylene plastic plumbing supply lines (PB) are installed in this home.
PB was used as water distribution piping in many homes built from the early 1980’s until the late 1990’s. The piping and associated fittings have had a failure rate and subsequent leakage sufficient to have been the subject of several nationwide class action lawsuits. Copper and brass fittings used in later years seem to have reduced the failure rate, but the piping may still fail due to problems with poor installation, improper handling, or chemical reaction with the water supply. Some copper fittings are also problematic. This home appears to have the copper crimp rings but has the fittings that are considered problematic. For further details see Polybutylene Plumbing - What is Polybutylene?
What You Need to Know About Polybutylene Plumbing
Recommend contacting a licensed plumber that is familiar with PB pipe before proceeding. The class action suits have expired and there is no longer any monetary relief for homeowners that experience a polybutylene piping failure. Recommend asking your insurance company if a house with PB pipe is covered for leaks and damage if you do not plan on having it replaced.

A home inspection cannot determine if polybutylene pipes or fittings are about to leak simply by looking at the outside of them. Pipes deteriorate from the inside and can split under pressure. They can leak anytime without warning destroying furniture, family heirlooms, and even causing structural damage. Leaks can go unnoticed and lead to mold. My recommendation is to have all PB pipes replaced including the one from the house to the street if it is also PB as listed in this report.

just an off topic reminder that "manufactured home" is not same as "modular home". They are VERY different structures.

Originally Posted by Leigh Goodman

just an off topic reminder that "manufactured home" is not same as "modular home". They are VERY different structures.

What are the differences?

Manufactured housing is built to a HUD code which differs tremendously from local code. Modular is built in a factory to satisfy local codes and is trucked to the site in MODULES and assembled-usually with cranes-on a foundation which is also tremendously different than foundation requirements for manufactured homes.
Modular home is supported at the perimeter like site built home. Mfd. is supported inside the perimeter at the structural beams. The sidewalls are actually cantilevered over these beams and the perimeter does not need structural foundation. This is why all attachments ( porch, deck, roof-over ) to mfd. housing must be self supporting. The perimeter walls of mfd. is not designed to have ANY load imposed upon it.

Many manufacturers have "off-the-shelf" designs that can be combined in different configurations to customize the dwelling.

Clarification: Many manufacturers of MODULAR homes have off the shelf designs........

Originally Posted by Leigh Goodman

Clarification: Many manufacturers of MODULAR homes have off the shelf designs........

Thank You!

Originally Posted by Leigh Goodman

Manufactured housing is built to a HUD code which differs tremendously from local code. Modular is built in a factory to satisfy local codes and is trucked to the site in MODULES and assembled-usually with cranes-on a foundation which is also tremendously different than foundation requirements for manufactured homes.
Modular home is supported at the perimeter like site built home. Mfd. is supported inside the perimeter at the structural beams. The sidewalls are actually cantilevered over these beams and the perimeter does not need structural foundation. This is why all attachments ( porch, deck, roof-over ) to mfd. housing must be self supporting. The perimeter walls of mfd. is not designed to have ANY load imposed upon it.

Many manufacturers have "off-the-shelf" designs that can be combined in different configurations to customize the dwelling.

This is correct and accurate.........with one technical clarification. They ( HUD Codes & Mods) are all factory built, manufactured homes........and as Leigh said, the differentiation is: "HUD Codes" = built to federal standards; "Mods" = built to state standards. Many manufacturers offer their floor plans in either HUD Code or Mod configurations. At times, to achieve certain snow load requirements, HUD Codes will also have perimeter foundation supports. Several factories also offer hybrid HUD Codes which install like Mods with perimeter supports and center-line lally cloumn supports.

Where I grew up in PA, the modular plant makes models that now have sprinklers for PA, and non-sprinkler versions for MD and VA. As you say, built to state standards, depending on where the unit is going. It wouldn't be real easy to tell that the house was modular after it was put on the foundation with that company.