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  1. #1
    Stephen Socha's Avatar
    Stephen Socha Guest

    Default air in well system

    So I posted a few months back about air in my well system. Since I am new to a well system having done general plumbing with my father on a municipal water supply system in their home, I am kinda stumped. I replaced the water tank yesterday thinking maybe the bladder had a leak, which it did. I also replaced the tank switch, but I still have air in the system. I am thinking maybe the pump needs to be repositioned, but then again, I dont know. The new tank definitely took a lot of the air out of the system, but when the tank empties, and the pump kicks on, I get air, so I am sure it has to be a pump issue. Any ideas would be appreciated. Maybe some settings or something on the tank, or the switch, I am really lost here. Any help will be appreciated. I am calling the well company tomorrow to have them out either tomorrow afternoon, or friday. Any help would be great. Thanks!

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  2. #2
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: air in well system

    Is your pump a submersible or above ground?


  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default Re: air in well system

    Is the tank holding pressure or does it drop?


  4. #4
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    Default Re: air in well system

    As Fritz mentioned tighten all joints. The pump may not be down far enough in the well and as the water draws down the pump is sucking air.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: air in well system

    SS,

    Since you saw fit to completely overwrite your original post on your original topic string from last June, have no idea what, if any, information you initially shared then, as no one preserved its original language.

    I am surmising from commentary made on your original thread that your cheif complaint originally may have been sputtering, or air at faucets or shower while in use.

    From status now, you have not even indicated what type pressure tank/accumulator you original had nor what you replaced it with. Not all are bladder type.

    Next, I note others made mention of pressure switch on prior topic thread. You make no mention of any of the pert. details.

    Seems you have a professional finally due since your "issue" dates back to at least June of this year. Good.

    Tag along and get yourself an orientation on your system. Take notes, and or record the visit (with permission), it obviously will be money well spent. Take down details.

    Your well, water system details may be on file with your local authority, county, etc. relative to permitted installation, modification, replacement, might be an additional source of information as to what you have.

    Type of well, pump, etc. are all details you need to know. Style tank, pressure switch settings, check valves, etc. are again, all things you need to know.

    Pennsylvania has low cost programs (some free) for private well owners to participate in, seminars, orientations, mentoring from trained volunteers and University extension staff members, even low cost water quality testing is available through the program, through the extension service (certified lab @ university)!

    IIRC regional "classes", "seminars" or presentations are scheduled this month and the next in many counties/townships - IIRC as an extension project from state university programing (might be free, if charge its minimal) but registration is necessary.

    Materials and information is available in various places, somewhere on the www.

    I believe overall it is via the Master Well Owner's Network program that is networked with the PA university extension services.

    I think you should start here:http://extension.psu.edu/water/mwonAnd look up resources and seminars for your area or give them a call,

    and take a look at some of the free web "publications", especially on this page:Well Publications — Cooperative Extension — Penn State Cooperative Extension

    As well as do some of your own research and reading. If you have no documentation from the former owner, look for servicing tags - and contact those companies - perhaps they still have information on file as far as what may have been installed or serviced for the former owner. They may also be able to help you source manuals, etc. for the equipment you have presently.

    Don't forget to get your well service professional who's coming over to give you an orientation of your overall system - and TAKE NOTES!!!

    Would be a real shame if you swapped out a tank that you didn't have to (adjusting precharge or draining waterlogged non-bladder tank) and troubled pressure switch or incorrect settings), or some other issue with priming, check, corroded or damaged pipes, wires, contacts, screens, etc..

    Best to consult a pro when you don't even know what you have in your system, let alone how to diagnose or trouble shoot a symptom.

    HTH.

    P.S. In reviewing the comments on your "other" thread, it seems that you must have indicated you are a RENTER of this property, and you have a LANDLORD who OWNS the property and presumably, the PRIVATE WELL SYSTEM.

    Seems the LANDLORD/OWNER or his MANAGEMENT AGENT, SHOULD have information regarding the SYSTEM.

    Perhaps YOU shouldn't be doing anything to this system, especially not even knowing what is in place, as the OWNER is responsible - and has tremendous liability should there be a contamination issue to the ground water due to improper function etc. affording a contamination exposure, or if safety of the system is otherwise compromised (electrical safety, etc.). Public Health issues etc.

    Although you do not give a more precise location other than PA, IIRC there have been some areas prone to GAS infiltrating private wells.

    There are a HOST of things that could be related to symptoms of sputtering, air at faucets, either initial or after flow established, when pump cycles, etc.

    Another resource link you might explore to familiarize yourself with some of the "potential" issues might be: Diagnose & Repair Air Discharge from Water Supply Piping or Plumbing Fixtures

    But again, It seems YOU might not be the one who should be doing anything regarding the well system or plumbing system on a rented property you occupy.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 09-09-2010 at 10:22 AM. Reason: Added post script.

  6. #6
    Stephen Socha's Avatar
    Stephen Socha Guest

    Default Re: air in well system

    well as it stands, I talked to the well company today. It is a submersible pump, not sure on the depth. He said the check valve is probably the issue here. He said to take some kind of wrench, a t-wrench I do believe he called it, fish it down the casing until it hits, turn it, and pull till the pump comes up. Then check the check valve. I went to tractor supply to price out the check valves, and they arent too much. Any ideas about this wrench? He said it was around an inch. I am really lost, and thank you to the gentleman who said I have no idea about my system, no I really dont. I am just like most, I fix it as it comes. But at the moment, the wrench is my biggest issue. I tried to just pull up the wires, and of course, it didnt work. I didnt want to pull too hard, and screw myself completely. So I am out of luck on the check valve until I can pull the pump up. At a curiosity, how do you tell if the check valve is bad?


  7. #7
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: air in well system

    The check valve is on the top of the pump. Not sure about the wrench but to replace the check valve you will need to pull the pump. You can try to add a check valve on the pump line above ground to take the place of the one on the top of the pump. May work and may not. I have had about a 50/50 success rate doing this.

    You may be able to tell if the check valve is bad if the pressure gage reading drops with no water running in the house.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: air in well system

    You need a 1 inch threaded pipe at both ends. One end is a handle fashioned with a tee and two six inche nipples.

    The threaded end is put down to your pitless adapter approximately 4 feet below grade in the well casing.. That adapter will accept the one inch threaded pipe. Once the handle is fitted into the adapter, you lift your handle up and the piping and pump and wire will come up altogether.

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  9. #9
    Stephen Socha's Avatar
    Stephen Socha Guest

    Default Re: air in well system

    so, this wrench, can I buy one, or do I need to make it? Since I have a torch and welder it shouldnt be a problem, just wondering on specs and what not, length, etc. Give me a good diagram on it so I can make one up. This will save me lots in the long run since I plan on purchasing a home within the next year, and it will more than likely have a well system. Thanks.


  10. #10
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: air in well system

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    You need a 1 inch threaded pipe at both ends. One end is a handle fashioned with a tee and two six inche nipples.

    The threaded end is put down to your pitless adapter approximately 4 feet below grade in the well casing.. That adapter will accept the one inch threaded pipe. Once the handle is fitted into the adapter, you lift your handle up and the piping and pump and wire will come up altogether.

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    Thanks for the lesson! In NC the top of all well casings have to be 12" above ground to keep out surface water.


  11. #11
    Stephen Socha's Avatar
    Stephen Socha Guest

    Default Re: air in well system

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    Thanks for the lesson! In NC the top of all well casings have to be 12" above ground to keep out surface water.
    So just to be clear, I need around 5 feet of pipe, 1 inch in diameter, with a t handle. So this is pretty easy to make up. Alright, I will get one tomorrow. Thanks.


  12. #12
    Stephen Socha's Avatar
    Stephen Socha Guest

    Default Re: air in well system

    Alright, so I pulled the pump, not all the way, I thought I was gonna die when I got about 60 feet of pipe out of the ground by myself. I ended up breaking the pit less adapter that connects to the pipe. I got a new one, and put a check valve below it, with a nipple going into the pipe. It solved the air problem for a few days. I think I have the air almost completely solved, when I noticed there is another check valve going into the tank. The hose coming out of the ground wouldnt seal for me, and was leaking water. I replaced it today, and tried to push the check valve, it didnt move. So I am almost positive it is bad. I will replace it, and it should cure my air issues. Aside from that, I upgraded my pump switch, from a 20-40, to a 40-60. I think, I know I went with the highest one. It upped the pressure in the bathroom significantly, but the pressure at the faucet in the kitchen is nill. Any ideas, I live in a trailer so the sink is closest to the tank. I do believe the renters before me were "smokers" because there is not one screen in any of the sinks. I will replace them as well, and go from there. But why does the water pressure in the sink not exist. The tank is not pressured correctly for the switch, it is at 25 psi, as it came that way and I need to have it at 37. Could this be the issue? Help me out!


  13. #13
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: air in well system

    It sounds like you have either a bad stop on the line to the faucet or a bad faucet. I had that problem with the mop sink in my basement and it was a bad stop. It had gotten stopped up with yuch due to lack of use.

    Last edited by James Duffin; 09-26-2010 at 08:35 PM. Reason: Spelling

  14. #14
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    Default Re: air in well system

    I put a rope on my submersible pump when I had the 100 ' well. That way, I could pull the pump without hurting the pipe and wiring. I rigged up a tripod with a pulley, and pulled it up with my truck. All that pipe is full of water and it is heavy.

    You have hot and cold in the bath, but your kitchen sink has no pressure? It's not a problem with the pump then, is it? There may be some sludge in the faucet from all the plumbing work you've done. I'd say check at the shutoffs under the sink, but trailers don't always have them.

    The screens in the ends of the faucets were probably getting plugged with rust and silt. That's pretty common on a well system.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  15. #15
    Stephen Socha's Avatar
    Stephen Socha Guest

    Default Re: air in well system

    sounds good for that part of things. I just want this issue taken care of. Since I have the issue with the air pretty much figured, I now just need to take care of the sink. I know the pressure in the tank can be taken care of easily, just gotta get air to it. I have definitely learned a lot about the well system since undertaking this. It seemed complicated from my posts on here and a lot of people explaining a lot. It is a more simplistic system than I expected. Now that I know the check valve at the tank is bad, I can fix the air problem there. Just wondering about this pressure in the sink. Also, for some strange reason, my washing machine doesnt fill very fast. Could this be a clogged line to it? The washer is right off the tank, I never checked the lines, just thought the washer was going bad. Think it could be clogged with stuff? The beginning cycle fills kind of quick, but the rinse cycles fill slow. I will pull the lines to check it out. Thanks for all the help!


  16. #16
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: air in well system

    There is normally a screen where the hoses connect to the machine. I bet you are washing in warm or hot water and rinsing in cold water and the strainer on the cold side is stopped up.


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