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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    McKinney Texas
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    Default Check photo. Don't think this is allowed.

    Don't think this is allowed by todays standards per 2803.6.1 . T&P drain line going into sewer drain. Appears to have air gap but end of pipe cannot be viewed. House built in 1970. Was this allowed in 1970 ? Any body remember back that far ? If the end of the drain line were visibile, would termination into this sewer drain be permissible ? I think not especially since it also terminates into a sewer with the AC condensate line.

    What say ye ?

    Thx

    Gene

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    Default Re: Check photo. Don't think this is allowed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene South View Post
    Don't think this is allowed by todays standards per 2803.6.1 . T&P drain line going into sewer drain. Appears to have air gap but end of pipe cannot be viewed. House built in 1970. Was this allowed in 1970 ? Any body remember back that far ? If the end of the drain line were visibile, would termination into this sewer drain be permissible ? I think not especially since it also terminates into a sewer with the AC condensate line.

    What say ye ?

    Thx

    Gene
    No, it should end in a visible location so that the owner can see it leaking and then they can have it repaired. As for what was done in 1970? That WH looks like it is less than 10 years of age, so what was done in 1970 is a moot point. I do not know how you could make it visible and still keep the pipe end at the required height. Most folks terminate it into the pan that the WH is suppose to be sitting in.

    Now, lets talk about makeup air for that room. If that little vent cover is the only ventilation for that room and you have a gas furnace and a gas WH in it, you have other problems. From the angle of you picture it looks like you are in the back corner of the room taking the picture. So that room is on the small side for the amount of makeup air that is needed. Did that room also have a washing machine and dryer in it?

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    McKinney Texas
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    475

    Default Re: Check photo. Don't think this is allowed.

    Hey Scott, it is a hall closet and contains a water heater and furnace only. There are three air vents, two below and one up top. Looks to be okay from that standpoint.

    Thanks

    Gene


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Rockwall Texas
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    4,519

    Default Re: Check photo. Don't think this is allowed.

    Is that brass on that gas line to the furnace?

    rick


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Plano, Texas
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    4,170

    Default Re: Check photo. Don't think this is allowed.

    Here is a link that might help.
    PlumbingSupply.com - airgaps, backflow prevention products, anti-siphon devices, Tru-Gap airgap kits

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    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    5,847

    Default Re: Check photo. Don't think this is allowed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Heck, is that what that thing is fur? We had one in our shop and thought it was a small urinal!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Charlotte NC
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    2,303

    Default Re: Check photo. Don't think this is allowed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    You can buy that thing for $20.00 or you can hang the pipe in the end of an open T' for less than $2.00.

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
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    Default Re: Check photo. Don't think this is allowed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Is that brass on that gas line to the furnace?

    rick
    On my monitor that looks like Shiny silvery color so I'd say that's a stainless steel gas APPLIANCE CONNECTOR.

    However - I see TWO joined end to end supplying that water heater - appliance connectors are NEVER to be used in series. Limit is ONE per appliance from the permanent gas plumbing system.

    So, despite it not appearing to be brass, and that safety issue resolved -

    The use of TWO appliance connectors (in series, or joined end to end, as is connecting this gas water heater) IS a PROBLEM and IS NEVER ALLOWED.

    The ANSI standard for those appliance connectors states this, as does that TAG on the appliance connector itself. The prohibition is an outright one and not a mere "recommendation" or "suggestion" they are NOT listed for use as a substitute for a gas plumbing/piping system.

    Now, as to whether the valve mfg for the gas water heater, or the water heater mfg requires DIRECT connection to the gas supply system and prohibits or recommends against use of a flexible gas APPLIANCE CONNECTOR is another story, as also consideration for what your local codes may or may not permit.

    A WATER HEATER, as a FURNACE are not considered movable appliances, they are set in place and installed - therefore many/most code language/interpretation would require a direct connection, even if a flexible one made via Plumbing SYSTEM csst, but not a PRE-manufactured gas APPLIANCE CONNECTOR, such as is commonly found connecting residential gas ranges and residential gas clothes dryers.

    In sum, no code allows use of more than one in series pre-manufactured gas appliance connectors, because to do so is a violation of its listing and standard. There is no excuse to do so, they come pre-manufactured in a multitude of lengths.

    The TPRV DISCHARGE is incorrectly fed into a stack which likely is trapped, and is SHARING a discharge (with the furnace/ac coil condensate drain pan/humidifier drain?)

    Not allowed, neither is the discharge allowed to discharge constricted to a trap (holds water!).


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,245

    Default Re: Check photo. Don't think this is allowed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene South View Post
    T&P drain line going into sewer drain.

    Are you sure that is a DWV line connected to the sanitary sewer system and not just a standpipe and drain which goes elsewhere?

    There are other problems, but you would want to verify the above before stating it as the case - you could address it a the standpipe "is likely" connected to the sanitary sewer and be safe.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
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    Default Re: Check photo. Don't think this is allowed.

    BTW, both the appliance connector to the furnace and the water heater seem to be sourced from BEHIND the water heater, thus leading one to believe the shut off valves are INACCESSIBLE.Also, That metal ring suspended around that appliance connector should have data (numbers) stamped on it. Such rings are a clear indications that pre manufactured appliance connectors.Also on a related note (as to age and referencing home build date, and not being applicable) I don't recall the ENERGY GUIDE labeling program begining until well after the oil embargo which would make the furnace and water heater post 1970 installations (as if you needed more assurance as to untimeliness/inapplicability of a 1970 date).

    Finally and directly on orginal post topic -

    Nothing really matters code wise or date wise regarding 1970 build of the home and researching codes is NOT NECESSARY. The TPRV is the ultimate ruling issue here. There should be a safety tag still on the device (unlike matress tag should never be removed) - the instructions for the valve itself, and the requirements for safe discharge are clearly stated on that warning tag and in the manufacturer's instructions.

    That is the ultimate and cannot be trumped "authority" and the mfg date and installation date of THAT PARTICULAR TPRV is what "rules" on both the discharge and the drainage "issues" photographed and described. The Plumbing, Fuel Gas, and Residential Codes are "gravy" and unnecessary to address regarding calling the defect what it is regarding the TPRV DISCHARGE.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 09-28-2010 at 07:54 PM.

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